Fox News Publishes Mormon Questions

Good post. Mormonism is a completely different belief system from Biblical Christianity, but they try to downplay that when speaking to the general public. Unfortunately, the way Mormons are raised, they will simply look to LDS church leadership whenever confronted with challenges, and trust them because they are "prophets". Calling defenders of the Christian faith "anti-Mormon" is like calling a building "anti-wrecking ball".

These self proclaimed Christians need to spend less time belittling other religions and more time exhibiting Christlike behavior. I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for over 30 years, and have never been to a meeting devoted to tearing down the beliefs of others. This was not the case when I was a protestant.

Because my church does not have a paid ministry, we spend more time doing the work of the Savior rather than expecting the minister to do most of the work. My stepfather guit the ministry of a well known protestant church because of the meager help he recieved from his paritioners.

Our church runs circles around any other church, that I have seen, in terms of humanitarian help it gives to others throughout the world. We do this because of our love for Jesus Christ, and the realization that there is no way to heaven except through his atonement. The best way to show love for the Savior is by showing love to our fellow men. I am glad that Jesus Christ will judge whether I am a Christian rather than these self proclaimed Christians.

George,

I don't doubt your sincerity or devotion to Mormonism. My concern is with your soul. You cannot reject the teaching of Scripture and the continuous witness of the Church in favor of another Jesus, another gospel and another Scripture.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven,(Moroni) preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man (Joseph Smith Jr.) preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8,9

Sorry, but the Apostle Paul and Joseph Smith are in conflict with each other not in harmony. Given that choice I take Paul any day.

William,

It does sound like you are doubting my sincerity and devotion to Jesus Christ. This is so offensive and off the mark, I find it hard to believe that you are so ill informed about our faith. I doubt that you have ever heard a Mormon claim that you are not a Christian. We are too busy trying to remove the beam from our own eye to be concerned about the mote in yours.

Also, I think you are straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel. The most important thing is what we do with the teachings of Jesus Christ and not to get caught up in the nuances of the interpretation of Paul's teachings. I served a two year mission in the bible belt and cannot count the many differant interpretations of Paul's teachings even within the same faith. According to your definition, anybody that is in conflict with your interpretation is not a Christian. That is a pretty broad brush and I would not want to be in your shoes judging who is or is not a Christian.

Jesus said by their fruits ye shall know them. I have not been able to find a religion that comes close to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in its humanitarian efforts and the service provided by its members. If you know of any, please let me know.

I am asking you to see that historic Christianity is at odds with LDS teaching. You are correct that no Mormon would claim that I am not a Christian. My complaint is when Mormons claim that they are Christians. They are not. They are something outside of Christianity.

Christians through all history adhere to three Creeds based on the teachings of the New Testamnent. The Apostle's, Nicene and Athanasian Creeds define Christianity. These Creeds are like the boundaries of Christendom. There are variations of emphasis and practice within these boundaries but within these Creeds are the threads of faith that bind us to Christ. These Creeds encompass Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant teaching. Those who stray from these teachings are heretical but could loosely still be described as Christian.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims an origin outside of historic Christianity.

Remember the vision of Joseph Smith. He rejected all of Christianity and claimed to restore the Church. "I must join none of them, for they were all wrong . . . all their creeds were an abomination . . . professors were all corrupt". Smith rejected all Creeds, teachings and members of every Christian group. What he started is not Christian by his own admission. You just don't understand the implications of this teaching. The LDS church is separate and distinct from Christian tradition.

The Church that Christ established has always maintained a continuous witness since it's founding two thousand years ago. If fact the Church is the only institution ordained of God that will last forever. This cannot be said of the family or the state. That you are not aware of the contributions made to our world by the Christian Church does not surprise me. If you want a little snapshot of this go to amazon.com and get "How the Irish Saved Civilization" by Thomas Cahill. The book is about Saint Patrick and how his mission to Ireland transformed the world.

Of the thousands of protestants that I have spoken to, the vast majority beleive that revelation ended when the apostles died. The early reformers, Luther, Clavin, Wesley etc. in essence rejected the Nicene creed in favor of sola scriptura:

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the assertion that the Bible as God's written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

As you know, the council of Nicea did not occur until 300 years after Jesus was crucified. Most protestants would reject the Nicene Creed as scripture since revelation, in their minds, ended 200 years earlier. Since most Christians do not accept the Nicene Creed as scripture, how can you say it is the defining document of Christianity?

In Joseph Smith's vision, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ told him not to join any of the churches. He did not reject all teachings; there are many great and wonderful truths taught in Christian churches. What the Savior was telling Joseph was that there was not a single church that contianed all truth. I think you probably aggree with that. Unlike most Christians we do not believe that revelation ended two thousand years ago. We believe that there are modern day Prophets and revelation will continue until, like the Apostle Paul said, we all come to a unity of faith (Ephesians 4:11-14).

I realize that there have been many great contributions to our world made by Christians not of my faith, but I repeat, I have not been able to find a religion that comes close to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in its humanitarian efforts and the service provided by its members. I think what defines a Christian is accepting Jesus Christ's atonement, and following His teachings; not the Nicene Creed.

I never claimed that the creeds were Scripture but they are concise summaries that quantify what it is to be a Christian. They were written mostly in response to false teaching so that believers would more fully understand the teaching of the apostles. They are definitions of what one must believe to have everlasting life. To reject the docrines in the Creeds is to reject the teaching of Christ and his Apostles.

The LDS tradition is outside of all of the Creeds of Christianity. Here are a few examples:
The LDS church is poly-theistic, Christians are mono-theists.
The Father in LDS has a physical body, Christianity rejects this idea as heresy.
We as Christians do not believe as Brigham taught that Adam "is our FATHER andour GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do."
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost not by sexual intercourse between a resurrected Adam and Mary as Brigham taught.
Christians believe that the death of Christ paid the full price for our sins. We reject the LDS teaching that one can sin beyond the atonement of Christ and must have their own blood shed to pay for their sin.

The Bible is the measure of what God has revealed. Any claim contrary to the Bible is contrary to what God has revealed to us.

Words matter. Although both Christians and LDS people use many of the same terms the definitions are in many cases lightyears apart.

Again, I go back to this point that Mormons follow another gospel, another Jesus and another Scripture.

If the creeds are not Scripture then they are the opinions of men. To reject the doctrines of creeds is to reject the interpretation of the Scriptures by 250-300 men who met in Turkey during the dark ages 300 years after the crucifixion. Therefore, rejecting creeds is not equivalent to the rejection of Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Apostles. As I stated before, Luther, Calvin, Wesley etc all had disagreements with the Nicene Creed.

The Adam-God and blood atonement theories are very very obscure theories and have never been accepted as doctrines by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The theories were never even brought before the Priesthood of the church to be voted on as doctrines. In my 30 years as a member of the church I have never heard the theories presented by church authorities, brought up in any church meeting, or discussed in general accept to respond to the anti-Mormons who incorrectly assert that they are official church doctrines. Finally, no one knows how Jesus was conceived, but we like you believe in the virgin birth.

Even when I was a protestant, it never made sense to me that Jesus Christ, the Son, was the same being as God the Father. How did Stephen look steadfastly into heaven and see Jesus standing on the right hand of God? Was Jesus on the cross asking Himself to remove His own suffering? Why are there so many examples of God the Father introducing Jesus Christ as his beloved Son? Isn't a Father sacrificing the life of His only begotten Son a much greater sacrifice than giving His own life in another form? We do believe that Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost form the Godhead, but they are completely one in purpose and there is no distinction between them.

PS I still think you are straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel. The most important thing is not our adherence to man-made creeds, but having faith in the Savior's atonement and how we live our lives.

"Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our FATHER andour GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do."

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost."

"Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."
All three quotes above from Brigham Young 1862 (Journal of Discourses Chapter 1: 50-51)

The problem for Mormons is that Brigham is their prophet and therefore all of his teaching including the above quotations are therefore either the word of God or Brigham is a false prophet. It's a heck of a delima.

The following is from http://www.waltermartin.org/mormon.html#godmorm

Historically this doctrine of Adam-God was hard for even faithful Mormons to believe. As a result, on June 8, 1873, Brigham Young stated: “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me—namely that Adam is our father and God.
" ‘Well,’ says one, ‘Why was Adam called Adam?’ He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, ‘I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation’ ”(Deseret News, June 18, 1873, 308).

You remind me of those whoe believe in the 911 conspiracy and think the government blew up the world trade center despite all the evidence to the contrary. They also put together bits and pieces of so-called evidence, interpret that evidence the way that they want it to be perceived, and insist that it is the truth. The facts are that the Adam-God theory is your intepretation of Brigham Youngs teachings not the LDS churches interpretation. The Adam-God theory never has been included in our Articles of Faith, in the LDS scpritures, or even considered by the Priesthood to be included as LDS doctrine.

I noticed that you had no answers to any of my questions regarding the Savior as a seperate being? I am also waiting for you to name a faith that provides more humanitarian aide, or whose members are more service oriented than those found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

Brigham Young and Joseph Smith--according to your statements and those of the LDS Church--are prophets of God. Therefore everything they taught is God's Word. For you or the Salt Lake church to ignore or reject their teaching is to neglect part of the restored gospel that Smith and Young have given to your church. The fact that the elders in Salt Lake sanitize or outright delete the harder things taught by your founders is disingenuous and a disservice to the God you claim to worship. Either these men were God’s prophets and every word they spoke was Truth or they are false prophets. There is no middle ground!

What I have quoted to you is factual, in context and only a small portion of the historical record that leaders in Salt Lake have swept under the rug. For you to trust your soul to an organization that can rewrite history with the ease of characters from a George Orwell novel is dangerous. I beseech you to seek the Jesus revealed in the New Testament who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary, was crucified, died, buried and rose on the third day. He is very God and very man, not the spirit brother of Lucifer or one of a pantheon of gods.

This central message of the Gospel is who is Jesus Christ. I have tried to focus on the issues central to biblical faith.

You seem to be stuck on works as some validation for the Mormon gospel. I can name many Jews, atheists and others that reject any claim to Jesus and do “good works” but there is no saving merit in works. All our righteousness is as filthy rags in the eyes of God. Only the sacrifice of Christ can give us any merit. It is as a result of his grace applied to us that we can do anything pleasing in his sight.

The belief in equal protection under the law, the sanctity of life and liberty are just sample of contributions to the world via Christianity. That judges in court rooms all across the world wear black robes is a remnant of the fair treatment that bishops gave to both believers and un-believes in their courts in the early centuries of the church. Hospitals and medical ethics are the direct result of the Judeo-Christian heritage. The oath of Hippocrates is derived from the values of his Jewish grandparents. One of the early distinctions of the Christian church was its opposition to infant abandonment and abortion. This high value of human life also resulted in the widespread sponsorship of orphanages.

Anytime there is a disaster on the planet you will find the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. Both are the result of Christian men and women helping strangers that are in need.

There are millions of Christians all over the world that take part in both small and great works. We build schools, provide medical care, build churches and try to help the helpless and the hopeless. We go into areas and by our works show them the love of Christ and then as we are able we tell them of God’s love for them. We are the body of Christ. We each do the part that God has called us to do and leave the results to Him.

George, I know that you are wondering why I have the information that I do about the LDS church and how do I know that it is correct. I will answer that question in two parts. First, I have been blessed to be familiar with people that are good at both research and theology. Dr. Walter Martin, whom I have mentioned before has written some books that have stood the test of time on the LDS Church and other groups. There is a website with much of his material on it and some Real Audio talks that he gave many years ago. Here is a link to the site. http://www.waltermartin.org/cults.html
On this page is his talk on The Maze of Mormonism. They also rotate some other Mormon related stuff in their listening library every few months.
Through Google I found the site Mormon Research Ministry http://www.mrm.org/ that is written by former Mormons. I have mentioned some of their information in some of my previous posts.

As for why I know this stuff is true, I will briefly recount a long conversation that I have while I was in the Navy. One night on the ship, there were four of us sitting around talking about religion. Besides myself, there was one man that was interested in faith in God and two Mormons. One was a typical Salt Lake member but the other was from the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints. (The Reorganized LDS church follows Joseph Smith and rejects the teachings of Brigham Young. They are the second largest Mormon group behind Salt Lake and one of the ninety or so splinter groups of the Mormon faith.)
The Reorganized Mormon knew more about the teaching of Brigham than I did and was intimately familiar with Adam-god, blood atonement (firing squads in Utah are there for a reason) and other unique doctrines of the church. Joseph prophesied who would be his successor and it certainly wasn’t Brigham. It was a long and interesting night and gave me the confidence that Dr. Martin was right and that Salt Lake sure keeps a lid on inconvenient truths.