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Comment on: Gray Ghost Country

The Ruins of Windsor or "A Civilization Gone with the Wind"

74 Comments

Someday

my hope is to visit the Civil War battlefields of the East, from Gettysburg to Vicksburg to Chancellorsville....and then get really fat in the Delta eating BBQ.....ah, to dream....
great piece.

I love the old Antebellum Homes.

I always feel like I'm on hallowed ground because of all the history surrounding them. We have our share of them in Tennessee too and they are held with great respect and reverance as historical sites.
The pictures of the columns are good shots, creating instant nostalgia. Thanks for the tour, Grey. And the history lesson.

davecat

That would be a hope of mine, although I have visited just about every battlefield in the states of Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, and Arkansas. In the other states, I have hardly visited any battlefields.

I would also like to visit the Revolutionary War Sites. I visited some when my wife and I lived in Schenectady, NY.

Maybe some day we can do it.

Bobbie

There is a kind of "ruined grandeur" at Windsor that the photos don't always give. Further, Windsor is out in the middle of nowhere. But at one time this one of the richest areas of Mississippi. Now there is not much industry in the area (except for the Grand Gulf nuclear plant). Very little farming too.

The Civil War "killed" the economy of this area.

Gray Ghost

A break from politics and a good tibit of history. I have been to Vicksburg, but never knew about this place.

Gray Ghost --- Bittersweet History

Nice piece of work, infused with Southern nostagia. The South of those days is generally villified, almost exclusively by people who dwell elsewhere. And by black citizens who understandably are bitter about the scourge of slavery. I really enjoyed your descriptions and photos. Very powerful presentation. I live in Southeastern NC, a Confederate State in the Civil War. What angers me is the hypocrisy of many -- mainly Northerners -- who view this history simplistically. Southerners didn't own slaves to punish a race. This practise was an economic decision. My point is that the economy of the South was based on agriculture -- production of big row crops like cotton and tobacco. Hand labor was required to harvest these crops. In the North, an urban, industrial society was building. Mechanization negated the need for masses of human labor. I contend that if the roles had been reversed, Northerners would have made the same decision that Southerners made. It wasn't a particularly honorable approach to conducting business, but it was a way that seemed the only option in those days. So I contend that Northerners (and I love our brothers in frost country) can sometimes be disingenuous in their smug criticism. I can generalize also by mentioning the factories and sweat shops of the big, smoky cities which virtually enslaved children of all races -- mostly immigrants who were largely defenseless when at the mercy of unscupulous labor bosses. I apologize for turning the discussion in this direction, but I do smart under the lash of criticism visited on my region with little regard for extenuating circumstances. We are now a Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. God bless America.

Bitter Sweet Read


The columns are strikingly similar to those found in Greek and Roman archaeological sites all over Italy. Some dating back to the third century BC.

Gone With The Wind

Thanks for sharing these photos and history with us, Gray Ghost. I like thinking about the society before the War, the Southern gentlemen and the belles. My niece`s grandparents live in NC and when she was small, they would send her cards addressed to Little Miss Sarah. She`s married now ....

Patrick Bohan

If you are ever back at Vicksburg, the drive to the ruins of Windsor takes about 40 minutes. Also you might want to see Port Gibson (the town that U.S. Grant refused to burn because it was too pretty). Just take US Hwy. 61 South. You have to go through Port Gibson to get to Windsor. Also look for the church in Port Gibson with a "hand" on the steeple instead of a cross. The index finger of the hand points "up". This church and hand have been there since before the Civil War.

VerneStrickland

No problems. For those blacks who complain, I usually answer that more blacks served in the Confederate Army than in the Union Army (case in point, Holt Collier of Greenville, MS, who was a "sharpshooter" in the Confederate Army of Tennessee and later became famous for guiding Teddy Roosevelt during the "Teddy Bear" Hunt in Onward, Mississippi; second case in point, General Patrick Cleburne of Helena, Arkansas, who proposed that black slaves be allowed to enlist in the Confederate Army and be freed after the war). For Yankees who complain, I generally ignore or ask "who sailed the ships out of Boston" who brought the slaves? (Please note the musical reference from "1776".)

INTHENOW

I believe that these "Corinthian" columns were very popular during the period of 1840 to 1860, both in the North and South.

I too like the architecture of this period.

dawndawn

It was a "different" world "dawndawn". My family were middle class farmers and land surveyors in Choctaw County, in eastern Mississippi before the Civil War. From what I know about my great-great grandfather, he would already be in DC taking his complaints to the federal government in today's present situation.

My family owned no slaves (a slave generally cost about $3000.00 in 1860, or about $100,000.00 in today's economy). They couldn't afford to own slaves. The reason they fought for the Confederacy were the issues of "State's Rights" and the economic "blackmail" that the New England states were using on Southern trade and commerce.

However, not all Mississippians agreed to secession. Jones County, south of Jackson, "seceded" from Mississippi during the Civil War to stay in the Union. (The book and movie "Taproots" concerns this historical event.)

Mississippi has some fascinating history!

Ghost

My neighbor and I are talking about Gettysburg next year. Think about it.....

History

That so many now choose to ignore so much of our country's rich history is truly sad. It has now gotten to the point where people only see what they want to see, without ever taking the time delve into it any further than to simply skim over the surface. If people would only spend more time actually reading and learning the history of our great country, I'd be willing to bet we would not be in the place where we currently find ourselves today.

Thanx for the great post

Davecat

I will! I have been to Gettysburg twice; but it is a place I love to go to (and read about).

In 1973 I walked across the field of "Pickett's Charge" and cried my eyes out. Longstreet was correct. No 15,000 men "born of women" could have successfully made this assault.

In 1993, I explored Little Round Top, especially the positions of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and the 20th Maine. Again I cried my eyes out as I explained what happened on Little Round Top to a group of Maine Boy Scouts. ("But Mr. Gray Ghost, you are from Mississippi. How do you know this much about Maine troops and Chamberlain?" Answer: "We are all Americans and this was a 'proud' moment in American military history.")

Dan

"If people would only spend more time actually reading and learning the history of our great country, I'd be willing to bet we would not be in the place where we currently find ourselves today."

Amen, Dan!

Even though I am an electrical/mechanical engineer, I have never forsaken my love of the history of our great country. It saddens me greatly when I realize that 95% of the young people of this country don't have a "clue" about this history.

LOL


If you think this lifestyle is "departed", you should visit Bel Air or the Hamptons.

Trust me. It's still thriving.


Interesting reading about the building costs. $4,000,000 in today's money, but ONLY because the labor was free!

You'd probably and more realistically have to at least double that. Out here in Bel Air, people have often spent over $10 mil on their shacks. I've been involved in REMODELS that exceeded $4 mil.

The Old South

Too bad we cannot return to much of the Old South. The traditions and life there were wonderful speaking from a distance as many of my relatives came from the Old South [KY, NC, VA] and migrated west.

As Verne sez: "Southerners didn't own slaves to punish a race. This practise was an economic decision." True, and was on the way out. Steam engines would replace most of the ag work and also shipbuilding and slaves were very expensive. We got the slaves from the Brits [Drake was the first to grab some and transport them to the Carribean as the locals could not work in the heat down there.

The civil war was fought over the prospect that soon more states would vote with the South and destabilize the northern grip on the US. Lincoln wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa.

Politics are such that degenerated societies like our Indians and descendants of slaves extract unwarranted sympathy for their sloth, drug and alcohol addiction and now have to hire slicksters to run casinos. They are political pawns. Without AA they would be destitute.

We have only to look at Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, New Orleans, Oakland, Baltimore, The Oranges, St. Louis and other cities completely dominated by black liberals to see what kind of a society they really choose when they have a free hand.

The liberals create a lot of phony jobs from the crime, sloth, drug addiction and such around their dung heaps they call cities. I am near a suburb of Philly and Philly is a toxic sewer for sure.

But, we can still fight the war. Just choose carefully where your money is spent and for what. We can squeeze a lot of liberals with some careful research and planning.

The civil war is still raging if you put us against the slimy liberals as the new setting.

Find new ways to defund this slime.

rycK

I want

to build a modern version of one of those wonderful plantation homes. Use that archetecture, but with all the modern conveniences...especially nice big pool and hot tub.

rycK --- you're wise, my friend.

I enjoyed your comments on Gray's "Civilization" piece, which was excellent. Both Gray and you are scholars to be admired, and I do feel that way about you. ricK, what you said about the "downtrodden" in our society today is rarely uttered for fear (by many) of being seen as cruel, bigoted and judgemental. It is refreshing to hear someone make those statements because they are accurate. Jesse Helms, when he was writing his "Viewpoint" editorials for WRAL-TV in Raleigh, warned that LBJ's "Great Society" would enslave blacks again by making them wards of the state and political fodder. He was right about this and so many other issues. The sad and revealing thing is that blacks and U.S. indians welcome the opportunity to be on the dole. I fear that Obama will perpetuate that sorry state for them. Thanks, buddy, and best regards always. Verne.

Gray --- you hit a responsive chord

There has been a lot of response to your wonderful piece about the Ruins of Windsor. Aside from the descriptions of the timeless architecture, many of your fellow bloggers also found their emotions stirred about the origins of the Civil War, the terrible toll it took on all of U.S. society, and the aftermath of this epic struggle. A number of our TH bloggers spoke of personal visits to Gettysburg and other sites where so many perished. I visited Gettyburg perhaps 20 years ago when I was researching stories for a client in nearby York. I finished my work early one day and determined I would go to Gettysburg for a visit and tour. I was beset by the same overwhelming emotions that Gray described, and found my eyes welling with tears as the tour bus operator pointed out major battlefield sites and the heartbreaking carnage that took place there. It was in early July, when the season was reminiscent of the days the actual battles took place -- all the more stunning to experience. My tears were for all the boys and young men on both sides who were swept into this slaughter. I suggest that all our TH friends visit there if at all possible. You won't be the same when you come away. Verne.

BrianR

"If you think this lifestyle is "departed", you should visit Bel Air or the Hamptons.

Trust me. It's still thriving."

Perhaps you are correct Brian. I want no part of that type of lifestyle (of the rich and shameless) because I understand what goes with it. Therefore I tend to ignore it.

That said I hope you liked the photos of Windsor. The place does have a "ruined grandeur" that I tried to capture with my photos.

Did you also read my comments to "dawndawn" about Jones County? Not many people know that Jones County seceded from Mississippi during the Civil War. The book "Taproots" doesn't do the real story justice, although the author (James Street) is a Mississippian and understood the events.

Ryck

"We have only to look at Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, New Orleans, Oakland, Baltimore, The Oranges, St. Louis and other cities completely dominated by black liberals to see what kind of a society they really choose when they have a free hand."

Not only the large cities, but also the small Mississippi Delta cities. Case in point, Mound Bayou, south of Clarksdale. Two mayors (present and former) were arrested two years ago for taking bribes. The town received federal grant money (which was supposed to be spent on water system improvements) over a period of several years.

Fire hydrants were installed with no water line installed to them (i.e., the fire hydrant was just stuck in the ground). The mayors received bribes from contractors to "look the other way".

And the above case in point is not unusual.

(PS: Mound Bayou was formed by former slaves in 1870 and is all black.)

Crawfish

You mean you want to join the "lifestyles of the rich and shameless"? For your family to be a constant target?

Not me. I just want a "dog-run" house on about 100 acres of prime deer hunting country.

(And if you know what a "dog-run" house is, reply back. I don't think they have them in Texas. Or at least my uncle living in Austin says he has never seen one.)

Verne

I have visited Shiloh, Corinth, Brices Cross Roads, Champion's Hill, Vicksburg, and most of the smaller battlefields here in Mississippi. (I know Shiloh is in Tennessee, but that is a minor point.) Initially the reason I did so is that my great-great grandfather (or his brothers) fought there. I have visited Stone River, Pea Ridge, Chicamouga(sp), Look-Out Mountain, Kenesaw Mountain, Gettysburg, Franklin (where Patrick Cleburne died), and others too numerous to count.

My Civil War library includes over 400 books, including some very valuable first editions.

After about twenty years of study (starting about age 12 and ending at about age 32) I discovered that "all the brothers were valiant".

At age 38, I got to speak with Shelby Foote from Greenville, MS and living in Memphis. He has now passed away, but at that time he was considered America's greatest scholar on the Civil War. (My father and his brothers were from Hollandale and knew him personally, I think that is the only reason he would agree to see a "snot-nose" kid.)

Mr. Foote confirmed my analysis (all the brothers were valiant). Since then I have really learned about the Civil War.

Yeah, Ghost


Kudos on the pics. You know that's my Jones, and those are good ones photographically.

Very evocative of past glory, yielding to the decay of time.

Thank You Brian

That was exactly what I was trying to get with my photos, Glory decaying with Time.

Late in the evening, as the sun sets and twilight comes, you can almost see Windsor as it was. It is very melancoly.

My wife was with me, and she said she could almost cry (while looking at Windsor at twilight).

Ghost

Went to Vandy years ago and have always loved the architecture of the Old South. Living in Cape May for years, I continue to be amazed at the Victorian homes,over 600, extant. There are some areas in Britain when living over there that had almost the same architecture. And as you know, the South almost ,almost had an ally in Britain during the War. Drop by my newest and rant.

Rackoons

Thanks for stopping by.

I will be right over.

Ghost

Gone but not forgotten!

Here in Virginia you need to be able to dedicate a fair amount of time on visiting battlefields, the whole state is lousy with 'em. LOL!

I started taking my son when he was about 12 on long weekend trips to the various battlefields both WBTS and the Revolution. Yorktown is within an hours drive, depending on traffic, and we have done the Richmond battlefields, Petersburg, Fredricksburg and with exception of minor skirmishes, we finally did them all.

The James River Plantations tour is terrific and also very close. Shirley Plantation is my favorite with it's beautiful Georgian architecture but Berkeley runs a close second.

Endview Plantation near Yorktown is fully restored and although not as opulent as most, operates as a living history project on a smaller scale than Williamsburg.

I've spent a lifetime visiting these places and enjoyed every moment. I know it's romanticism but I really do love the South and especially the South that used to be.

Thanks for the tour!

Sgt Relic

The same here. I took my daughter and now I am taking my grandchildren to battlefields. Most of the pre-Civil War Plantations in my area are like Windsor, gone and largely forgotten.

I hope to get to the Cowpens and Kings Mountain Battlefields. My great-great-great-great grandfather fought at both and got a land grant in Tennessee for doing so.

I am glad you enjoyed the pictures. Windsor is "the romantic South" at its best.

Yeah, a couple of times I

took my daughter back to the DC/MD/VA area for vacations (I'm a native Marylander).

I took her down to Yorktown, Williamsburg, all those places (in addition, of course, to the DC area sightseeing routine). Very moving.

Ghost


You want to try something fun with your pics?

If you have Photoshop or Elements on your computer, convert them to B+W.

I just looked at them again, and IMO they really lend themselves to that process. You'd get a much starker and moodier rendering.

Gray

Excellent post, and very moving. Make no mistake, this is what the left hopes the end result of our "vast right-wing conspiracy" will be. They certainly believe the right is sewed up in the stereotypical white south. Let's hope 2010 shows them that conservative principals are nationwide.

davecatbone

Speaking of BBQ, you need to stop by Kansas City sometime and experience some of the nation's best BBQ.

Gray Ghost

Well golly I sure have nothing to add to the discussion in your thread. This is great.

As for your post, many thanx for the pics and history surrounding this beautiful structure! If you have more of this, I think we would all be interested.

I too have visited several sites from our past (I am in Virginia) and it is always a sobering and thrilling experience all at the same time.

Gray Ghost

EXCELLENT piece of history.

BTW any of you that visit Gettysburg, I STRONGLY urge you to go 1 HOUR and change out of your way and visit Antietam. Gettysburg is nice but largely a tourist trap. Antietam is a National Park and the presentation is STUNNING. You walk on the SAME GROUND as the soldiers and in certain place where troops were trapped and MASSIVE casualties were inflicted, you can FEEL the sadness/panic/fear that the troops felt.

BrianR

"You want to try something fun with your pics?

If you have Photoshop or Elements on your computer, convert them to B+W.

I just looked at them again, and IMO they really lend themselves to that process. You'd get a much starker and moodier rendering."

Brian, I do have Photoshop and I will try this tonight. Thanks for the tip!

Sgt. Stryker

"Make no mistake, this is what the left hopes the end result of our "vast right-wing conspiracy" will be. They certainly believe the right is sewed up in the stereotypical white south. Let's hope 2010 shows them that conservative principals are nationwide."

Amen to that Sarge. After Grant got through with Jackson, MS, in 1863 it was called "Chimneyville". The South does not intend on that happening again. But after talking to men in Indiana and Ohio, I don't think they intend on that happening again.

Curtal Friar

KC BBQ is good. I happen to like Mississippi/West Tennessee BBQ better. I believe that the best BBQ in the US can be had at one of the following locations:

1. 3 Pigs BBQ; Dyersburg, TN (since 1923)

2. Abe's BBQ; Clarksdale, MS (since 1924)

3. Neely's BBQ; Memphis, TN (since 1979)

However CF, I have no problems with KC BBQ. BTW, thanks for stopping by.

Mrs. AL

"I too have visited several sites from our past (I am in Virginia) and it is always a sobering and thrilling experience all at the same time."

Thanks for stopping by Mrs. AL. I am glad you enjoyed the pictures. The history available in Mississippi (as in Virginia) is amazing. The Natchez Trace, Vicksburg, Winterville Indian Mounds, etc.

There are places in Mississippi that haven't been rebuilt since the Civil War. There are places in Mississippi that date back to way before the Revolutionary War.

Georgetwin

"BTW any of you that visit Gettysburg, I STRONGLY urge you to go 1 HOUR and change out of your way and visit Antietam. Gettysburg is nice but largely a tourist trap. Antietam is a National Park and the presentation is STUNNING."

Having been to Gettysburg twice, I know what you are saying Georetwin about Gettysburg. However, I still enjoy going there.

But I have never been to Antietam. I would really like to see Antietam, the Widerness, and a few other sites in Virginia.

That "house" must have been something

to see for a Union soldier to have drawn a sketch of it. I really hate that so many liberals (black liberals, in particular) seem to be hell-bent of destroying anything related to the old south and especially the Confederacy. Slavery, seen in retrospect, was wrong - but at the time, it was a common practice of the day. I wonder how many things that we do today will be judged as repugnant or barbaric some hundred years or so down the road. Perhaps, the very things that D'ohbama is implementing during his time as president?

LBJ's "Great Society" wd enslave blacks

As VerneStrickland states, "LBJ's "Great Society" would enslave blacks" and it did. The obvious strategy here was to make minorities wholly dependent upon the leftists so as to preserve the vote advantage. That worked.

We could throw this back in the faces of the sordid left with the murder results of the 10 largest cities dominated by liberal governance. But, we find out that with the exception of NYC, those dung heaps are run by crooked black Democrats. Gee, do we find a connection here?

Then, there is the 'education'faud.

The liberals won that round...

rycK

Ghost


If they come out kewl, how about adding them to the essay?

Ryck

Not sure they won that round or any other round. It ain't over until the "fat lady sings". And I haven't heard any music or singing yet.

Not sure they won that round

GG wonders: "Not sure they won that round "

Think about the phony test scores, race norming, the phony graduation of many students in spite of failing test scores and the phony notion that IQ is not important in academics.

They certainly didn't lose in most of those areas. The race norming gig was busted and is now illegal.

rycK

BrianR

I thought I had Adobe Photoshop; but I can't find it. I am talking to some friends to see if I can get a copy of it for my machine.

GG

Excellent piece. Wonder if the race lords,led by Obama,believe the descendants of the Daniell family owe reparations to the descendants of the slaves who built that wonderful structure.

gray

Great pics. Some of America's older architecture is very fascinating. Never been to Vicksburg though, but it looks like a interesting visit.

Great article GrayG

Actually you should give some thought to posting it on digitaljournal.com, it's a natural.
The south is an area I travelled in my misspent youth as a thumb rider. Great times in a lot of really nice places.

GG

If Obambi has his way and starts bulldozing American cities, there will be more ruins to look at, they just won't be as good looking

Very Cool

I now have a new destination on my next trip to Mississippi.

Thanks Ghost

Clyde

Thanks for stopping by.

Most of the people who live around Windsor (25 mile radius) are black. I have never heard them complain.

Eric

Thanks for stopping by. Vicksburg is very interesting. Besides the national park, the old court house museum is worth visiting.

Gar

Thanks for stopping by.

I barely have time to "blog" at TH, much less anywhere else.

Jim

Thanks for stopping by.

There are lots of interesting places in Mississippi. (Kinda like there are a million stories in "The Naked City".)

Old mansions

I worked with a colleague in Lafayette, La. back in the '60's whose aunt lived alone in the family homestead, an antebellum plantation mansion. The old woman was rather eccentric. When her husband died back in the '30's she had closed off the 2nd floor. We often speculated on what he would find once she 'passed' and he opened the 2nd floor and attic.... Sadly I left the area in the late '60's so never found out.

GG

"I have never heard them complain". Most likely they wouldn't, either.Seems as if the ONLY place it is a problem is in the "nuanced" areas of the country.

Ghost et al


I just posted my thoughts on Sotomayor at my place. Drop by when you have a chance.

Ghost

WOW--I traveled in the south and the places are breathtaking. It is a shame our own country seems to be "going to the wind" but the winds from washington-stink.

Gray Ghost

That is some beautiful building.

It's a shame we don't have many places that look like that anymore. We have some 17th and 18th century buildings in Boston, Cambridge, and the Cape, but in other places they have gone away.

Nice pictures of the area as well.

I used my Gray Ghost Gloves to mow the lawn this week.

New Post at my place, stop on by.

Buck

"Sadly I left the area in the late '60's so never [I] found out."

Thanks for stopping by. You really need to check this out (i.e., Lafayette, La.). I don't know how, but you should.

Clyde

"Seems as if the ONLY place it is a problem is in the "nuanced" areas of the country."

Amen to that. However, I really wouldn'y call them "Nuanced"; I would call these areas "racist".

Snow Knight

"It is a shame our own country seems to be "going to the wind" but the winds from washington-stink."

Do you know the only difference from a road-kill skunk and a road-kill Democrap politician? There are skid marks on the road in front of the skunk.

MJSJR

"I used my Gray Ghost Gloves to mow the lawn this week."

You have to explain what those are.

Ghost

a winner...do you think there is anyone who can step up to the plate for us in 2010??

Gray Ghost

I lived in the south for some time..the country is great!

Windsor

Hey Ghost, I posted back here Ivan wouldn't read it. You really got under Ivan's skin. The little weasel is going to have an aneurysm.
Keep up the good work.

Windsor II

I'm afraid I know little about him, other then what he's posted. He told me in one of Gunny's blogs about 6 months ago that he was a photographer I think. Unfortunately when he got dumped they took off his post so I can't verify that. But I don't know much more then that about the little Nazi dweeb.

Windsor III

Yes, "PHOTOGRAPHER"! I know, I laugh just envisioning him as a photographer, a little Marx beard, with a Granola bar in his pocket and a Tofu salad for lunch. I'll bet he's a vegan, lives at home with his mommy, and would have been a virgin except for what happen to him in the shower at band camp.

Windsor IV

Ask him if he's still doing photography..

Windsor V

Ivan won't engage me anymore, I fear I've beaten him up too badly. It's really depressing, i liked beating him up!

Sorry, I had to get that off my chest