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Comment on: "one eighty"

The Best Way To Advance Conservatism?

56 Comments
Friday, October, 30, 2009 3:25 PM BrianR writes:

No, no, Sheila


You COMPLETELY misstate at least MY position.

I've never advocated "throwing out all Republicans", by any means.

What I HAVE said is that I'll no longer vote for a candidate simply because he IS a Republican.

You used the scamnesty attempts as an example, but in fact BOTH parties were on board for it. BUSH was the one pushing the idea. It was the outrage of the peeps -- the future Tea Partiers -- shutting down congressional switchboards with their protests that killed it.

Even then, McCain (and Palin!) and Huckleberry were still pro-amnesty during the campaign.

Your strategy completely defies human nature, too. If GOPers are elected as "moderates", what would possibly make them suddenly convert to conservatism?

As I constantly point out, all you have to do is look at Commiefornia to see the folly of that idea. Ah-nuld's a GOPer. Do you see one lick of conservatism in him? He's the damned Governor! He's termed out. He can't run again. Has that freed him up to become his "true conservative self"?

On the contrary, he's become even more liberal than ever, as hard as that is to believe.

Look at Congress. I can't think of one single example of a "moderate" GOPer EVER becoming "more conservative". But I can think of plenty who became even more liberal.

No, we have to hold the GOP's collective feet to the fire, and make them understand that as long as they keep fielding "moderate" candidates, they'll continue to lose, and remain a minority party.

They need to either wise up, or be replaced... just like THEY replaced the WHIGs.



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Friday, October, 30, 2009 5:47 PM Tazzmax writes:

Amen Brian!

When the repubs had a majority in congress,{during Newties' tenure},....they BLEW their chances,...I don't remember much of anything conservative coming from them,....no stopping illegal immigration, no new drilling for more oil in our territories, no ending of useless fed progs, ala dept of education, endowment of the worthless porno arts,..federal land grabs,...overreach of EPA,....the list goes on and on and on!

Who in the h&ll thinks they'll change now!
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 5:53 PM Sgt Relic writes:

best game plan?

I think more has been done to advance the conservative cause in the last year than we've seen for a long time.(Townhalls, Tea Parties, millions of people in the street)

Tuesday is going to be our first report card. Here in Virginia I expect to see McDonnell, a long time conservative, win big. NJ is too close to call which says much in a traditionally blue state.

The real battle is in NY-23 where a conservative is pitted against a democrat and a republican and is actually leading that race in a number of polls.

The left of center republican is endorsed by Newt and Steele, calling for party unity, while the Hoffman bandwagon is getting very crowded as more and more national republicans finally start to read the writing on the wall.

If Hoffman wins, IMO, that will send a shockwave through not just the DNC but the RNC as well.

BTW: Speaking about Reagan and the Gingrich takeover: "Neither of them won by pretending to be Democrats. It is the mushy "moderates"-- the "kinder and gentler" Bush 41, Bob Dole and John McCain-- who lost disastrously, even in two cases to Democrats who were initially very little known, but who knew how to talk." - Thomas Sowell
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:03 PM Sheila writes:

Brian

You aren't getting my point. If we have a majority we will have more conservatives simply due to numbers, and your voice will be heard and listened to, unlike right now. The libs don't give a rip what you want, and they are doing what they do best: growing government by leaps and bounds.

Sure, as I have said many times, I'm not happy with everything the GOP or individuals pols have done, but if you think you will ever have everybody agree in a party, well, you're not being very realistic.

So right now, with the dems in power, what part of your agenda is being advanced?
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:09 PM Patrick Addison writes:

Sheila

If Republican conservatives are voted into power in 2010 and in 2012 and repeal the 'Pedophile Protection Act' along with Cap and Trade and Health-care legislation (if they are enacted), not voting for McCain was a successful strategy. However if Health-care, Cap and trade, immigration reform (Dem style), fairness doctrine (or some manifestation thereof) thereof are enacted and Republican conservatives fail to repeal them having been voted into power, I would not be happy. I think Democrats are counting on the fact that having enacted legislation like health-care reform Republican conservatives will try to conservatively manage what has been enacted, as they have done with Social Security and Medicare. Whatever happens let it be known I do not regret not voting for McCain.
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:13 PM Sheila writes:

Tazzmax...reg your comment to Brian

I don't think it's a matter of anyone changing, it's a matter of having more numbers. If we keep working to get more conservatives elected while having a majority, we can further our agenda, unlike what is happening now, which is the libs are ruling and growing government so fast there is no way to stop them.

We will never have everyone agree in a party. I've heard some here on TH talking about a third party...wonder how long it would take for that party to start having disagreements? Plus that is a way to have a permanent minority, as Rush himself has said.

We always seem to be the dems best friends...bet the current pres. is happy with folks who didn't vote, or voted for someone other than our candidate...I even know people who are conservative who were fooled and voted for BO!

Unreal how we help further the dem agenda...
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:14 PM Patrick Addison writes:

Sheila

I do think that the GOP is a useful instrument for the cause of conservatism.
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:26 PM Sheila writes:

Sarge, I know, I'm hoping

conservatives elected, to send a message to this admin. But even if we gain a few governors, how does that slow down the agenda of the dems?

It seems to me the dem cause is advancing. Do you think we have enough going for us to gain back enough seats to actually advance our cause? I sure hope so, but right now our cause is being kicked in the shin, in legislation that is going on.

I heard part of Reagan's speech that Rush played the other day...what an awesome man. But there were folks who were mad at him, too. Wonder what today's conservatives would have done if Reagan were in office signing an amnesty bill...bet we would be the bad guy in some folks minds because he didn't do exactly what they wanted...



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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:31 PM Sheila writes:

Patrick

Fair enough, but at least you are honest to say if it doesn't work out the way you'd hoped you won't be happy...I appreciate the honesty.

My fear is it is too late. Thomas Sowell wrote a piece that confirmed my fears...

Well, let's hope for the best and work to get more conservatives in there!..;)
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 7:37 PM Sheila writes:

And Patrick

I agree the GOP is the best place to advance our cause. It certainly isn't a perfect party, though...

Right now it's the only place to advance our conservatism! A third party would be a disaster! It would guarantee minority status forever.

Btw, did you see Cambell Brown on CNN siding with FOX? Hmmm...
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Friday, October, 30, 2009 10:20 PM Sheila writes:

Btw, Sarge

I noticed on Brian's you're implying I'm not a conservative. What is conservative to you? Getting BHO elected?

Please don't spread misinformation about me on other blogs, OK? That's not fair. I always thought you were a nice guy. So if we disagree, we simply disagree... but I would appreciate you addressing me when you are talking about my positions, not making bogus insinuations on another blog.





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Friday, October, 30, 2009 10:27 PM Sheila writes:

And Sarge

That "we" in my response to your comment should have been "he"... bet he would be the bad guy in some folks eyes...

Hate typos...;)
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 12:00 AM Patrick Addison writes:

Sheila, I did see her

Campbell Brown did a great job exposing the hypocrisy coming from the White House. It is good to see that there are still some journalist who believe in the freedom of the press.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:32 AM BrianR writes:

Again


Sheila, you wrote: "If we have a majority we will have more conservatives simply due to numbers, and your voice will be heard and listened to, unlike right now."

As pointed out by Tazz, Sarge and me -- repeatedly -- how can you come to that conclusion?

The GOP had it all up to 2006: both houses of Congress and the White House. What did that get us?

Scamnesty... TWICE! Scrips for Seniors. NCLB. Lightbulb mandates. No Social Security reform. The financial collapse we're currently going through. Record (until now) deficit spending. No border enforcement. McCain/Feingold. EPA overreach. Not one new oil refinery built. Not one new nuke plant. No new off-shore oil development. No meaningful new oil development at all, for that matter, while gas prices skyrocket.

You'll understand if I tell you that I'm vastly underwhelmed.

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:40 AM BrianR writes:

And to your question:



"So right now, with the dems in power, what part of your agenda is being advanced?"

Very clearly, a resurgence of true conservatism, as the peeps are taking to the streets and the GOP hacks are facing angry mobs. The Tea Parties were not a good place for those Bozos the try to make speeches.

As also pointed out in Sarge's comment, elections that are shaking up the GOP establishment. The revelation of many of the hacks' true hackdom, such as Gingrich, who continues to prove his absolute irrelevance to conservatism.

The fact that GOP congresscritters are finally -- FINALLY -- starting to stand up on their hind feet and take positions against these awful policy proposals.

THIS is what needed to happen, and wouldn't have taken place at all if the King Hack McAmnesty had won that election.

We'd already have Obamacare -- called "McCainCare" -- shoved down our throats.

We'd already have cap-and-tax. We'd be fighting for our lives against another amnesty.

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:43 AM BrianR writes:

Patrick


"I do think that the GOP is a useful instrument for the cause of conservatism."

I agree, in that I think it has the potential. I'd say for quite a while that potential has been unfulfilled. I also think, as I just wrote, they may be coming back.

But the jury's still out.

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 12:10 PM BrianR writes:

Great news, Sarge!



Another RINO bites the dust!

Scozz just dropped out of the NY race!

Another black eye for Steele and the establishment GOP RINOs, including Gingrich.

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 2:18 PM Sheila writes:

Patrick...:)

I was quite surprise...
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 2:31 PM Sheila writes:

Brian

I agree with you that the GOP didn't live up to expectations, but I am with Thomas Sowell. Risking the future of the country on a rookie, and a gamble that we "might" make gains after all the damage from the left is done, is, well, a gamble.

I read a column by Peggy Noonan today in the WSJ and she is right. There doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel, with these children running the country. Children of abundance that don't know you can kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

IMO it would have been wiser to deal with the challenges in the GOP without making the countrie's problems bigger by putting the libs in power.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 2:37 PM Sheila writes:

And Brian...

I will be thrilled "if" we make huge gains and wind up with a majority. But there is the big "if"...

I hope the "if" turns into reality. I still think the risk was too great. The admin is full of self avowed communists. They don't play by the rules.

These people have been waiting for their opportunity to finish what they started when they had their 40 years in power. They will not give up power easily.

But we can dream, and you can keep up the games, and make light of it all. I'm just a little more skeptical about it. And I think America;s future is not looking good.

Hope I'm wrong!
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 2:39 PM Sheila writes:

yikes I'm typing too fast...

sorry about the typos.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 3:55 PM jevica writes:

Shiela

"They will not give up power easily." If large enough gains are made in elections then they will lose power, unless you see some kind of coup.

Since the bureaucratic agencies are where a lot of power is also and there are large groups of liberals attention must be paid there. But these employees have protection against just being fired.

" . . . you can keep up the games, and make light of it all." I don't think I, Brian or the others "make light of it" or play what you call "games." What we do and have said over and over is not want to abandon our beliefs and principles to elect some RINO or moderate because they are on the Republican line, and the Democrats. Would you rather have a Zell Miller type Democrat of a Susan Collins type Republican?

BHO has not been in for a year yet, how were you during the Clinton administration? Did you think that was the end of the country? Or was it OK because we had Republican Congress [some of the time]?
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 3:59 PM jevica writes:

BrianR

BTW about term limits, here in NYC we [the people] voted term limits for the mayor [others also], two terms. Well Bloomberg went to court got that overturned and now he has spent over 30 million to try to get in for a third term.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 5:49 PM BrianR writes:

Sheila

EVERY battle's a gamble. If we only fought the ones we were assured of winning, we'd never fight any at all.

That's what cowards do.

Yeah, the stakes are big, which makes this battle all the more important. This isn't the invasion of Grenada; it's World War 2.

When there's this much at stake is exactly the WRONG time to back down. Sowell's bright, but he's only human. He still puts his pants on one leg at a time. And on this one he's wrong.

It would be nice if we had the luxury of going back and fighting it at some safer time. We don't.

And the funny thing is... there is NO time in which people consider things safe and tranquil. It's ALWAYS "too risky".

No... this is a GREAT time to do it, and we're having a terrific affect. Tea Parties; townhalls; now a RINO GOP-backed jerk bites the dust.

Let's send that idiot Gingrich back to Georgia where he belongs, with his has-been dreams of glory; demand Steele pull his head out of his butt; tell the rest of those RINO hacks that they're next if they don't get their s**t together, and keep moving forward to VICTORY!

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 5:53 PM BrianR writes:

A further thought


Sowell's and Noonan's logic is the same as the people who refused to back the Revolutionaries: the risk's too high. Wait. Be patient. Things will improve. Trust the politicians.

FYI, the active supporters and participants in our Revolution were only about 1/3 of the country.

Fortunately, the Revolutionaries didn't listen to the others, n'est pas?

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 9:09 PM Cynewulf writes:

eh, Noonan,

she was an Obama backer. I'm guessing she's having a bit of buyer's remorse.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 10:36 PM Tazzmax writes:

Sheila,

you're talkin "Monday morn quarterbacking".

There has been no better time than right now to take back the party,...those RINO goons had better take the "writing on the wall" or it will be at their own peril.

In all my life I have never seen the American people so stirred up and angry!

They have woken up, thanks to the tea partiers, internet, Rush, Glen, Savage, Coulter, Malkin and many others.

We want our country/freedom back and by G*d we are going to "take it back", one way or another!


I have been witnessing the Marxist/Fascist/ commie destruction of our country since the early "60s" and I'm tired of it, along with millions more people!

Both political parties are guilty of this treachery and it has to stop.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:14 PM Sheila writes:

Jevica...

Clinton had a republican congress to deal with. This guy has total control. It's a lot different.

The difference is this guy sees himself as "the one", it's "his time", "re-making" America, no matter what. The minority has zero power to stop anything and we have no power to stop anything...

Let's hope and pray # 1, the people will speak in the elections, if it isn't too late, and # 2 election fraud is exposed.

I have to laugh when this admin is talking about election fraud in Afghanistan, when there was all the ACORN fraud in our election here...what a joke that is.

That's what you have to deal with when the dems win.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:23 PM Sheila writes:

Brian

I don't see it that way. Fighting after handing it over to the enemy seems like a waste as well as a bad strategy.

I prefer running an offensive rather than being on the defense.

I guess we will know pretty soon if your strategy works. Right now it looks rather bleak.

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:29 PM Sheila writes:

Brian

I'm not saying "trust the politicians"...I'm saying give em heck, stay on their case. When people get outraged, if you have reasonable people in charge they will listen.

These people are ramming everything through regardless of what the public wants...

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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:31 PM Sheila writes:

Cynewulf

That even makes her words more powerful, IMO. She is hearing from business people around her who are scared to death.
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Saturday, October, 31, 2009 11:44 PM Sheila writes:

Tazzmax...

I am as frustrated as you are. My point is, when we are in the majority, we have conservatives in there who can keep pushing back. If we are in the minority, we have no control whatsoever.

I want the country to get back to the founding principles as well. What I see happening now is the furthest thing from that! And that really scares me.

I hate where the country is going too. I have been fighting this stuff for years. It's a battle that never ends. But at least we were ahead, and we could have continued to gain ground... now we're set back big time.

If the Supreme court gets stacked with ACLU anti American justices, along with every appellate court in the land, well, I think you know where we will be... and we have no say in that, with this bunch in control. This admin can nominate the most liberal judges around to all the open seats that were never filled when Bush was president.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 8:16 AM Sgt Relic writes:

Shelia

I'm not sure precisely what comment I may have made that offended you. I have commented here in the past but since it is always the same argument I haven't been a frequent visitor.

I don't view comments made on an open forum on the public internet to be talking behind someones back. I don't however recall ever having initiated a comment with you as the subject.

Your argument since last year has been consistent and repeated. You have argued the same position that the RNC has taken. That is the Republican position and not the conservative position.

It's party over principle. I'm just not willing to do that anymore. This is not a new position for me and you are well aware of it.

There is movement afoot which I am proud to have been part of this year. The Tea Parties are filled with people who are feed up with being asked to hold their noses and Tuesday has the chance to set the tone for '10 mid-terms.

The RNC just learned in NY-23 that they can no longer get away with picking moderates over conservatives. We will only get those kinds of results when we stand together and say no.

If I offended you I do apologize, it was not intentional. Let's be friends! I think we want the same things for our country, we just don't agree on how to go about making it happen.

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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 11:28 AM BrianR writes:

Sheila,


You keep repeating yourelf:

"My point is, when we are in the majority, we have conservatives in there who can keep pushing back."


So I'll do the same:

"The GOP had it all up to 2006: both houses of Congress and the White House. What did that get us?

"Scamnesty... TWICE! Scrips for Seniors. NCLB. Lightbulb mandates. No Social Security reform. The financial collapse we're currently going through. Record (until now) deficit spending. No border enforcement. McCain/Feingold. EPA overreach. Not one new oil refinery built. Not one new nuke plant. No new off-shore oil development. No meaningful new oil development at all, for that matter, while gas prices skyrocket."


If that's your idea of "pushing back", I'm STILL very underwhelmed.

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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 3:28 PM Patrick Addison writes:

Sheila

Republican Dede Scozzafava endorsed her former Democratic opponent in the upstate congressional race which has been recently referred to on this blog. This is one reason why I don't care for RINOs. They are not independent thinkers; but, they are liberal thinkers who portray themselves as not extreme. This is another proof that RINOs cannot be trusted to be team players. They and so called independents always want conservatives to compromise; but, when the rubber meets the road they go left. They say conservatives are not party first (I will gladly admit to that); but, when things don't go their way they jump ship.

Brian R I definitely hope the conservative wins in this race; and, I hope he stands for conservatism when conducting the business of the office. I am tired of being underwhelmed.

BTW Sheila, I like your blog!

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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 8:34 PM Sheila writes:

Thanks for the apolology, Sarge...

I apologize as well, if I was out of line...;)

Btw, we have been friends in the past, remember? LOL! I haven't been spending much time on the blogs lately, just on and off, so I haven't commented around like I did for a while.

How's your family? Hope they are all well.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 8:37 PM Sheila writes:

Brian

LOL! What policies do you like right now?

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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 8:41 PM Sheila writes:

Patrick...:)

Thanks, btw...;)

I am happy about "skuzz" dropping out... that is good news!

I wonder why she calls herself a republican, frankly... it is very irritating.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 8:52 PM Cynewulf writes:

The Scozz endorses the Dem over Hoffman

This would be why Hoffman was runing in the first place.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 9:00 PM Cynewulf writes:

Sheila,

"That even makes her words more powerful, IMO. She is hearing from business people around her who are scared to death."

I don't know. Everyone else knew this before they voted. Some of us couldn't stomach McRino and voted for a third party that upheld our principles; some of us voted for McRino out of a sense that he was the lesser of two evils; some of us voted for Palin, ignoring the top of the ticket (I confess that I was one of these; love her or hate her, she was the least inept of the 4 people on the ticket); but none of us supported The Big O. Noonan did. What did she think she was going to get anyway?
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 9:16 PM Sheila writes:

Cyne...

I didn't realize she supported BO...I hadn't followed her for a while, then my husband started taking the WSJ.

I agree... it isn't any surprise what he's doing... and knowing that would be the case, I voted Mac/Palin...;)

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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 9:19 PM Sheila writes:

And Cyne...

I missed your scuzz announcement...unreal!

Cannot figure out why she ran as a republican!!!!! I'm sooo irritated! Her announcement will probably help Hoffman.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 9:27 PM Sheila writes:

Sarge

I just heard about your loss over at Brian's. My sincere sympathy to you and your family.
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Sunday, November, 01, 2009 11:51 PM BrianR writes:

Yep, Sheila and Cyne


That exactly proves my point. That's the whoooooole problem with your theory and "strategy", Sheila.

Can anyone say "scumbag assh*le liberal b1tch"?

Yet ANOTHER stupid liberal donning the (R) brand.



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Monday, November, 02, 2009 1:00 AM Sheila writes:

Well, Brian...

This case was a no-brainer. Like Cyne said...if Palin backed Hoffman, well, the handwriting was on the wall.

If she is in a conservative area, I can't imagine why she would have even run, except it wasn't a primary. If it had been Hoffman would have run on the GOP ticket and won.

Am I right?
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Monday, November, 02, 2009 1:18 AM Sheila writes:

Also, Brian, one thing will happen.

The media will of course paint the republicans as intolerant and try to make the case that people with differing views aren't welcome in the party. And we all know, the big tent idea is to attract more numbers in order to win a majority... can we do that if we aren't a big tent?

Unless we are able to convert people really fast over to the conservative way of thinking, we may wind up permanently in the minority...
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Monday, November, 02, 2009 10:21 AM Sgt Relic writes:

Shelia

Thank you for that kind sentiment, speaking for the family, we all appreciate it.

There is an upside, which is a tribute to my sister-in-law's meticulous planning. I am reliably informed that she feared she wouldn't be on hand tomorrow and voted absentee for McDonnell.

Yes, here in Virginia, the dead vote conservative!
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Monday, November, 02, 2009 10:50 AM BrianR writes:

Sheila


The point here is that once she quit, she didn't throw her support to the former-GOP conservative guy -- like even drones like Steele did -- but to the Dem.

This is the problem with a GOP that has no standards as far as what candidates it backs. You get people like this Scozzfavabean.

As far as the "big tent" goes... funny you should mention that! I wrote an essay recently on exactly that topic!

http://viewfromtheisland.blogtownhall.com/2009/05/02/specte r’s_“defection”_and_the_“big_tent”.thtml

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Monday, November, 02, 2009 10:52 AM BrianR writes:

Here's the close of that essay


which I think sums it up pretty well:



The bottom line is that the GOP keeps talking about Reagan's "Big Tent" (he coined the term) then use it wrongly.

They're like a bunch of idiots running around in the rain trying to keep an umbrella over a herd of cats. It's a complete waste of time.

What you do is set up a big umbrella (or tent) firmly anchored in your core principles and beliefs, and let the cats come to you to get out of the rain.

THAT'S how the "Big Tent" works!

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Monday, November, 02, 2009 12:50 PM Sheila writes:

Sarge...

;)
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Monday, November, 02, 2009 12:52 PM Sheila writes:

Brian...;)

Yeah, she obviously was a faux repub...;)
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Monday, November, 02, 2009 1:01 PM Sheila writes:

Yeah Brian...

We will see if the "tent" can draw a majority of voters, and the dems don't overwhelm the polls with dead voters and multiple voters... I'm sure they will be working overtime to secure the dead vote, with help from ACORN.

Will we be able to overcome that? I sure hope so.

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Monday, November, 02, 2009 1:08 PM Sheila writes:

Btw Brian,

My fear is we will lose much more of our freedoms over the next three long years before the election... we have seen that this bunch wants total control over our lives...

Hope we can get the entire country into the big tent!

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Monday, November, 02, 2009 11:27 PM BrianR writes:

.


"I'm sure they will be working overtime to secure the dead vote, with help from ACORN."


Which is actually completely irrelevant to the topic, as that would be happening no matter what the GOP or anybody else does.



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Monday, November, 02, 2009 11:41 PM Sheila writes:

Brian...

Hope you're right and it is irrelevant...but with this bunch, now that they have power they will do whatever it takes to hold onto it...

We will need not only a lot of votes but a lot of lawyers on the ground for the election.

Are you getting the fact that I don't trust the dems when they are in the majority? LOL
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Wednesday, November, 04, 2009 1:15 AM Virginia Daddy writes:

Hi there. I'm late, but...

I came down on the middle of this debate but grew to appreciate the position of standing for our principles.

I think it is important to remember that the results from the current state are yet to be seen.

Tonight, we see some interesting things...
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