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Comment on: Sharp12: 1 Peter 3:15

Let’s just get right down to it, shall we?

63 Comments
Wednesday, December, 19, 2007 1:45 PM Ken the Playful Walrus writes:

It's Difficult to Prove...

It's difficult to prove a universal negative, so atheists are making a leap of faith when they assert that there is no God. If you talk with atheists or agnostics, you'll find that many claim that designation for emotional reasons, as in... "If there is a God, why was I was abused as a child?" They appeal to things *they* don't like about the world as a reason to doubt God. I agree there is evil in the world, but I'm hard pressed to explain evil without a transcendent standard of good - God. Keep up the good work.
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Wednesday, December, 19, 2007 5:39 PM Linda writes:

sharp

Before I continue to respond to anything you write, I want you to know that I'm not trying to challenge you, or even necessarily disagreee with you. I'm just here to listen, to ask, to learn. Good.

Would you give me some examples of how the bible is historically and archeologically accurate? Could it be possible that the cities, the towns, the people are "accruate", but that some of the stories regarding God, are not?
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 1:35 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

The Superbowl

> Last year’s Super Bowl had only one winner.

Right on. ;-) The network that carried it was the only one winner. ;-)
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 1:48 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Time is on my side

Sharp -
> There are many fulfilled prophecies in the bible which validate its accuracy.

A broken clock is correct twice a day.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 10:49 AM RecknHavic writes:

The Time Is Now

"Sow for yourselves righteousness, reap the friut of unfailing love, and break up your unplowed ground, for it is time to seek the Lord, until He comes and showers righteousness on you." Hosea 10:12

I'm just sayn...
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:09 AM sharp12 writes:

It's Difficult to Prove...

Thanks Ken for your encouragement! I often tell unbelievers this: If you're right and I'm wrong, then at the very least, I lead a decent moral life and then I'll die. That'll be it. But if I'm right and you're wrong, then I'll spend eternity with my Creator and you'll spend it in a place that has unimaginable agony. And eternity is a long time to be wrong my friend.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:49 AM sharp12 writes:

sharp

Linda, great question! I know you're not trying to challenge me (although it would be quite ok if you wanted to). I started to give you some examples here but then realized that the examples would beg for more details; therefore you've inspired me to do a bit of reading. I'll look into it and post a blog on the subject as soon as I can. Man I love this stuff!
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 12:29 PM Linda writes:

absolutes

Another thing, I'm not sure you can make a case for absolute truths using examples of moral judgements. Of course it's not ok to kill people or rape people, but it's not ok because of our moral code, not because of absolute truths.

Stay with me here, cuz this is gonna sound really dumb, but I'm making a point...what if beings from another planet landed here, and found us, say...nursing our babies. Well where they're from, their moral code frowns upon that. They send beings to jail for that. That, in your example, is an absolute truth. But it isn't for us.

Maybe I'm over making a point, but I wanted to make it. (Plus, I got to include aliens which always tickles me!)
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 2:46 PM RecknHavic writes:

Relativism

Again w/ the aliens ;)

Where do we get our moral code? From society? Society elected Hitler, society (ours) enslaved people. Do moral codes evolve?

Relativism is self-contrictory. The claim that there is no absolute truth is a claim of an absolute truth in itself. Can't have it both ways.

I want to pose a question: What is the ultimate standard for morality?

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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 5:07 PM Linda writes:

ha Reck

I KNEW you were gonna go origins of morals on me! I swear I almost wrote "shut up, Reck", right after I wrote the words 'moral code'. :)

"The claim that there is no absolute truth is a claim of an absolute truth in itself." Ooooh, I like that.

It's sorta like the:
>"Believing in nothing means you believe in SOMETHING"
> "No, it doesn't. I believe in NOTHING."
> "Yeah, but that's SOMETHING! Nothing is something!"
> "No it ISN'T! It's just nothing. Just because you can't understand the concept of nothingness, doesn't mean it doesn't exist."
> "No, even nothingness is SOMETHING."
> "That's ridiculous. Sod off."


Ahhh...late nights at WMU...
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 8:45 PM RecknHavic writes:

Nothn From Nothn Leaves Nothn

There's a song there somewhere.

To your something/nothing point, that's kinda of a chicken and the egg thing and I don't know that it applies to morality...unless you're a chicken.

So a serious question, where do you think we get our "morality" or "moral code" from?
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 9:33 PM Linda writes:

morality or lack thereof

No, I don't think it applies to morality either. I guess I'd have to say it's just part of the human condition. It's the way we're wired. Obviously we're not all wired the exact same, but we're similar enough to share a general code of morality. The smaller scale stuff might be more largely determined by nurture/environment. I think we have a general disposition to innate goodness. Why? Dunno. Could say it evolved over time. Or you could claim it has something to do with your(supposed) God. Sorry, I was channeling Stan there for a minute.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 10:55 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Been there, done that. (n debate thatz)

Sharpie -
> ... But if I'm right and you're wrong, then I'll spend eternity with my Creator and you'll spend it in a place that has unimaginable agony. ...

You believe in Jesus, right?
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 10:58 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Nothing from Nothing is Conservatism

(thanX Billy Preston)

Linda -
> "No, even nothingness is SOMETHING."

Ah, and the folk claiming that there's a war on Christmas usually also claim that athiesm is a religion. :-)
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:02 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Re: Nothn From Nothn Leaves Nothn

Ooh, you beat me to using that tune. As opposite that we are, we both hear Linda's language, Reck.

Of course my use was a better use of the tune IMHO. :-)
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:06 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Been there, done that. (n debate thatz)

Ok, you don't have to answer that, but I think I can answer the question 4U with a question. Of course you do, isn't that what your blog is all about?

So going on the assumption that you believe in Jesus, the Torah says that like "Thou shaln't place no God before me" which is what, the sacred cow commandment?

IMHO when/if you hit the pearly gates of St. Peter, they're gonna ask you Y you believe in a sacred cow and you aren't gonna have a good answer and you could end up in hell.

Me? I'm not placing any sacred cows before any (supposed) God, therefore in your hypothosis, I would be in your Heaven.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:15 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Just for fun (break in debate)

Sharpie, I dedicated tonight's music post to you on my blog -

http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/?p=43
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:30 PM Linda writes:

back to morality

Tried sleepin, no luck, but thought of this. Reg. your question, Reck, and my mentioning how morality could have evolved over time. I could equate morality with civility. Assuming for a minute, man did evolve. At one time our moral code allowed for dragging a cave chick off by her hair to your cave. As we evolve, these practices become unacceptable. The same way we wouldn't nail a man to a cross, now, to execute him. That practice sounds preposterous. Our morals do change as does our civility. Even if you wanna take the caveman thing out of it, historically man's moral code has changed, it's grown (hopefully always for the better), but our internal rules of behavior aren't a constant.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:35 PM Linda writes:

oh ya can't get to heaven

Oh ya can't get to heaven
(oh ya can't get to heaven),
In Stan's pants
(in Stan's pants),
Cuz Stan's pants
(cuz Stan's pants),
Are full of ants
(are full of ants)....

Couldn't think of anything to rhyme with 'sacred cow'.
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Thursday, December, 20, 2007 11:56 PM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Linda's Language

Ok, I didn't understand that. Unless Linda's trying to get into my pants ... ;-)
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 1:53 AM RecknHavic writes:

Back To Square 1

Now I can't sleep.

As far as man's morals evolving, that would mean there is no absolute truth. I would say that there are absolute rights and wrongs, but we don't always choose wisely. Regarding humans morals evolving (gettn better): I think if you were to ask the Muslim girl who had just been forcibly circumsised, or the Cuban dissident in prison, or the Chinese citizen who's in a "re-education" camp, or the (supposed) cave girl being drug around by the hair, or a number of other persons who are suffering at the hands of manmade moralism they might disagree.

Yes, there are differences of culture but other than France :), what people admire cowardess, where is it that folks look up to the wife beater, name for me the place where rape is highly thought of, or stealing is the accepted norm? They don't exist because they are wrong. For them to be wrong there must be an understood idea of what is right.

One more thing, you said re: morals " it's the way we'er wired". Wired by whom? Ok, you can tell me to shut up now.


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Friday, December, 21, 2007 8:24 AM Linda writes:

stan's pants

lol...your talk of getting to heaven reminded me of a song we used to sing around the bonfire at camp. You insert different names and different ways...socks..hair, etc. and there's a rhyme. A real hoot when you're 10! Thought you might know the tune. Or you could just stick with your theory..more exciting.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 9:00 AM Linda writes:

Reck's absolutes

Ok, frankly you're gonna have to explain the whole emphasis on absolute truths. I see that it fits in with y'all proving the bible is fact, but I don't get it. You could use really big examples to make your case like murder, rape, stealing, etc., but when you start to trickle down into the smaller subjects, it gets foggier. It's more a matter of opinion. And our opinions have been formed by humans evolving, over the years we've decided where we stand morally on many issues.

Spanking for example. Beating a kid and spanking them are obviously 2 different things, but where's the line drawn? Isn't that a moral issue? Is there an absolute there? Who decides when one crosses over to the other? And WHO's rights and wrongs when it comes to absolutes?

I think the examples you gave of basic wrongness are morals that over time we've all come to agree upon. Of course you are right about choosing wisely, that's always gonna be there.

Why does it have to be a "whom"?

Oh, and good morning.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 9:39 AM RecknHavic writes:

Mornin

Gotta run; but you've asked some good questions that I will answer later and the answers are so earth shattering, so mind boggling, so revolutionary in depth and substance that your head may explode.

Or not.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 10:22 AM Linda writes:

mm hmm

I've got the duct tape ready.

(I was an adult before I learned it was "duct" and not "duck". I know, what's duck tape? But the two "t"'s back to back sounded like one. So there you have it.)
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 11:01 AM Linda writes:

btw

No need to get too into absolute truths if you don't want to. Found a website that couldn't WAIT to tell me all about it.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 11:59 AM RecknHavic writes:

Meaning

Ha! Duck tape..

Your not alone. Drivn down the road w/ S one day and saw a Dos Equis (it's a beer incase yall don't have it there) and I said,"Hm, wonder what Dos Equis stands for?" Mind you, there was a picture of two big X-es on the billboard. She gave me that "how big of a moron are you" look; that btw I'm quite used to.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 12:37 PM Linda writes:

with you

I'm with you on that one. Never really thought about what it meant. Course you live in Texas, so maybe you have less of an excuse.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 12:55 PM Linda writes:

a.t.

Maybe it's like I said before to Sharp. What if you just can't apply absolute truths to morals. You're saying I can't claim that there are no absolute truths. Ok, there are. You're right- 2 and 2 is 4. But you can't measure something that's not measureable in absolute terms. I think morals fall into this catagory.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 4:45 PM RecknHavic writes:

Measuring Morals

Ok, so you think that society should form our morality and we should live by it. Fair Enough. But then is it fair to say that people should treat others fairly if that "fairness" is in the context of someone elses morality and not yours.

Ok, I'm not sure if I even understood that and I wrote it.

"I can doubt everything, but the one thing I can't doubt is the fact that I am doubting."
Descartes

Goin shoppn...NOW...for real. And I better get atleast one, "Merry Christmas to you too". Or on the news tonight you may see a story entitled "Man Barrackades Himself in Mall, Shouts 'Merry Christmas You Motha's', SWAT on the Scene"...that would be me.
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 11:14 PM Linda writes:

shopping with morals

Well, I didn't hear about you on the news, so I'm guessin it went ok. :)

I went to go hear my bestest friend play with his band. They don't have a gig yet, but wanted to play for friends, so we went to listen. I got invited to sing with them when they've secured some places which was exciting, but really more terrifying, so I'll pretend I didn't hear it and get on w/ my holiday.

I never said I thought society SHOULD form our morality, I just think that it DOES. Is it fair? Well, it's kinda like our laws. Some might not think they're fair...they were made by others and we have to live by them.

So did you finish the shopping?
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Friday, December, 21, 2007 11:33 PM RecknHavic writes:

Got Two Merry Christmas ('); (es); (?)

Walmart and Family Christian Book Store (go figure) returned my Merry Christmas greetings. Target, Academy and Baskin Robbins did not. Only "bell ringers" we saw were at Walmart. Did get to embarress my kids by sayn, very loudly, while entern Target, Meeerrrry Christmas..Meeerrry Christmas. Still got some shoppn to do manana.

Re: your soon to be stardom. Hope you'll remember us little people when you make the big time. BTW...you rock!



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Friday, December, 21, 2007 11:56 PM Linda writes:

testing the help

I love that you're keeping tabs on your Merry Christmases. Well golly, what do expect from Baskin Robbins...and frankly what were you doing Christmas shopping there???? ;)
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 12:03 AM Linda writes:

btw

Oh and ty for your support, but it'll take something short of a miracle to get me up on a stage. (Maybe 3 beers'll do it.);)?

got an error...trying again...
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 12:33 AM Linda writes:

because I AM nosey/curious

Reck,
I'm sorry, but I totally invaded your "privacy" reg. your post to Carmen. Can I just say one thing about it that's none of my business? She said no citrus, which is grapefruit, which is what you said you bought for tomorrow. I'm just sayin'...cuz I care.
I lied..one more thing. Expensive but very good...Chantix.
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 1:44 AM Linda writes:

good night and good luck

Well, my timing's off again. Tried to stay up to catch the latest from my TX friends, but I'd bet their snorin'. sigh..ok, goodnight.
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 2:13 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Reck said -

> Walmart and Family Christian Book Store (go figure) returned my Merry Christmas greetings.

Interesting, because it seems you didn't return *MY* "Merry Christmas" greeting to you (over on your War On Christmas thread/puke.)
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 2:26 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

My ducts are fine but

I want a new duck.

One that won't stick his bill in my mail.
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 3:57 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

The 0th commandment or the 11th

(which don't exist)

Thou shaln't question question the existence


;-)
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 10:19 AM RecknHavic writes:

Happy Ramahanakwanzamas Every1

That was for you Stan.

L, Went w/ cereal instead of "citris", thnks for the heads up. And don't sweat the privacy thing, doesn't exist on the net.
Re: chantix. Yes, used it before when a quit. Tried the patch once as well, didn't work tho, couldn't keep the suckers lit :)
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 11:54 AM Linda writes:

Stan's Christmas list

Thank you, Havic...back atcha.

Stan's asking Santa for a duck, eh? Ya know, Stan, he sees you when you're sleeping... he knows when you're awake...and the whole good/bad thing, too. I just don't want you to be disappointed if you don't hear quacking under your tree on Christmas morning.

Silly Reck, you're not supposed to light them, you're supposed to suck on them! And then take a deep breath, drink a glass of water, call a friend, go for a walk...you know the drill.
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 12:26 PM RecknHavic writes:

Stan The Sequence Man

"If we want to be intellectually honest skeptics, we must be as skeptical about our skepticism as we are about our knowledge."
Dallas Willard
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 12:55 PM Linda writes:

receipt

Are you still gonna try to make my head explode? Cuz I have the receipt for this duck tape, and I'll return it. (NOW who's cheap?)

We should always be skeptical of our skepticism. Come to think of it we should be skeptical of being skeptical of our skepticism. Which brings us back to not being skeptical enough about our original skepticism, doesn't it?
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Saturday, December, 22, 2007 9:56 PM Linda writes:

tomorrow

Well, I just got off the phone with a good friend who's marriage is really bad. So I think I'll take tomorrow's opportunity in church, to pray for her. Right now I just don't think I have anything to pray for myself about.
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 12:53 AM RecknHavic writes:

Today...in 5 minutes

"Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise." James 5:13

So glad yall are goin tomorrow. You know, God really does love you. He knows who you are, and He wants fellowship w/ you. And I mean you, Linda. We've talked ALOT over these last few months about God..spirituality..religion....cheese. But, other than the cheese, have you ever sat back and wondered why?
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 3:50 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Linda's friend

> ... a good friend who's marriage is really bad.

Ooh, my kind've woman!!!! ;-)

Steve Martin said like: I support charities, in fact I support 'Unwed Mothers'. I help them get their start.
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 4:16 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

I know it's not Christmas yet

So I think I'll spread some Christmas cheer by posting a song about Christmas in another time -

http://technohippie.com/geeklog/public_html/mediagallery/me dia.php?s=20070710234624694

The lead singer is currently in competition with the same band for Best Polka Album Grammy ...
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 5:08 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Christmas, Brave Combo and Sacred Cows

Linda - "Couldn't think of anything to rhyme with 'sacred cow'."

Lucinda Breeding - " ... Brave Combo has never met a sacred cow that didn’t taste good with barbecue sauce."
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 1:44 PM Linda writes:

stan's kind of woman

> ... a good friend who's marriage is really bad.

Ooh, my kind've woman!!!! ;-)

You're a sick man, Rosenthal. Actaully you two see eye to eye on quite a few things! Too bad I like her too much to introduce her to ya! ;)
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 4:12 PM Linda writes:

why

Yes Reck, I often sit back and ask myself why you won't stop talking about God and cheese. I reckn you can't help yourself. ;) I'm kidding... you know me by now, I'm always asking myself those sorts of questions. Do you have an answer I should know about?
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 5:05 PM Linda writes:

tonight

R,
I wanted to let you know there's a special on CBS tonight after The Amazing Race, I think it's called "In God's Name". Thought you might be interested in checking it out.
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Sunday, December, 23, 2007 10:37 PM Linda writes:

Christmas eve day

Busy day? Hopin to hear from you, but no such luck. I'm off to bed...happy Christmas eve day everybody! (one more day till I get my Rotel!:))
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 12:58 AM RecknHavic writes:

Was A Busy Day

Last minute shoppn. Went to Santa's Ranch w/ kids and friends (What a line!). Also they took us to see a house in SA (Mr. Clarks), unbelievable. Was told it's googleable. Old fella has every type a decoration imaginable (inside and out); even has ceilings decorated. Front doors open, ya just walk right in. Musta been what it was like in the "old days".

Am sure S taped "Race", we'll watch it manana.

"And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." Ro 8:30
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 9:08 AM Linda writes:

reasons

Question for R:
Mornin! Thinkin about this...
So, is it your understanding that EVERYTHING happens for a reason? I know that sounds like a cliche, but I really mean the question. Is there a reason for everything, or are we set up here, left to our own devices to sort it out? Are the outcomes predetermined or where does our free will and decision making fit it? We've not really talked about that. I know there's a lot goin on, I just wanted to put it out there. I'm reading a book this morning that's got me going. Maybe you should tell me to stop thinking about it, and enjoy my Christmas. :)
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 11:41 AM RecknHavic writes:

Shmeasons

You should stop thinkn about it and enjoy Christmas ;)

Is everything predetermined or is it all random, or a mixture of the two? The best person to answer that question is Johamn Gabbboputty de von ausfer-schpleenden-schlitter-crasscrenbon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitzticolensiz-granter-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlick-grumblemeyororelterwasser-kurstlick-himbleleesen-luber-hundsfutgumberaber-shoendanker-kalbsfleisher-mittler-acher von Hautkopft of Ulm.
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 11:48 AM Linda writes:

weirdo

Could you introduce us, please? I've not had the pleasure.
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 11:51 AM RecknHavic writes:

John Cleese...

...actually pronounced this name in a skit a half a dozen times or more (w/out ever messn up). Brillant!
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Monday, December, 24, 2007 2:37 PM RecknHavic writes:

Merry Christmas Sharp!

"Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever." Daniel 12:3
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Tuesday, December, 25, 2007 1:33 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Linda's questions

> So, is it your understanding that EVERYTHING happens for a reason? ...

No. And that answer should basicly answer the rest of your questions, I think. And Merry Christmas to those that celebrate it!
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Tuesday, December, 25, 2007 2:52 AM http://tbsn.thesequencers.us/ writes:

Oops?

Were you asking Reck? Because of my last name, sometimes I answer to "R".
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Tuesday, January, 01, 2008 7:25 PM Linda writes:

reck's answer

Yes I was asking Reck, but I know the answer and so I'm retracting it. What the heck happened to Sharp, I wonder? :(
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Thursday, January, 03, 2008 12:44 AM Stan @ tbsn.thesequencers.us writes:

re: Where's Sharp?

All I can figure is that Sharpie knows when he's been "licked, all over" (Firesign Theatre) ... :-)
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Wednesday, July, 09, 2008 10:37 AM Linda writes:

sharp12

Sharp,
On Dec.20,'07 you said you'd look into something for me. At the time, I thought..."Alright. But I'll only give him till July 9th of 2008." Well..that's today. I'm just sayin.
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