Just call me the boogey man

I didn't say you are incapable of rational thought although I haven't seen any evidence of your being influenced by another's argument. You seem to have your mind made up. So do I in many areas. For example, Republican misdeeds are not an excuse for John Edwards. John tried to use his family life as one justification of his candidacy. Elizabeth we find out was a willing coconspirator. Only the most partisan or naive would state that this was innocent. We are going to find out that there was hush payments made. Iguess it's just about sex so to democrtas lying and cheating is no big deal. The list of repubs you had mean nothing without an explanation of what happened to them due to their moral failure. We know Newt had to leave office. Craig was pushed hard to leave but didn't. Vitter is still there but his wife wasn't the enabler Hillary and Elizabeth were. What I'm trying to say is there are misdeeds on both parties but repubs aren't using the dems failures to justify their own. At least I haven't seen it.

The problems with trolls on TH is that the non trolls pay too much attention to them. Their posting is not the problem---but the threads are dominated by banter making funof them and inside jokes and conversation to each other. That is uninteresting to me and as I said keeps me from enjoying the thread. And whether you realize it or not, no one is listening to each other.

Is there some part of illegal you don't understand? You are changing the subject from border security to ending legal immigration. And relaxing what it takes to become a citizen is not the answer. Perhaps relaxing legal immigration quotas to fill needs we have is a good idea. I am in favor of that. But we should expect a lot from people before granting the honor of citizenship. We shouldn't diminish the value of being an American. To be a citizen you should want to be an American, not just be in America. Speaking English and pledging your allegiance are 2 good requirements.

1 case--sounds like a pretty good law to me.

My feeling is that God has deemed any out of wedlock sex as sin and homosexual relations as an abomination. But that doesn't mean it should be illegal here. God will do the judging. We are asked to resist evil--aqnd if it ever comes to a vote in my state I will vote against allowing gay marriage.

Scripture is clear as to when life begins. I don't use my judgment--just God's Word.

I don't know anyone whohas changed a plan or activity due to the fear of terrorism. Planes were full, events are in demand, polls are unreliable. I look at what is happening rather than what people say when there are no consequences. The world can't be run by polls. Many liberals spout polls today that claim Americans wanted us to withdraw and the war in Iraq. A much larger % want us to drill now and a larger % was in favor Bush' Iraq action when the planning was being done. They don't seem to mention those polls.

Agreed there were a lot of reasons for his loss, the change of any one might have had the election turn out differently. Certainly his evolving positions (I voted for the funding before I voted against it. Can I get me a huntin' license? etc) did hurt him. I believe that naming Edwards--an empty suit) hurt him. I think if he had named Gephart he would be Preident today. His requiring a Global Test hurt him. He was a poor candidate--experienced but too self centered and too political. And none of those guys can explain their speeches in 1998 calling for bombing Iraq and regime change in opposition to what they said in 2003 and 2004.

By the way--1 of the reasons I vote Republican mostly today is that 1998 vote. A unanimous support of Clinton's plan in the Senate(even when a reasonable position could have been that he was trying to take the headlines off Monica). Republicans did not play politics with our security when they could have. Democrats haven't been playing that way--they have been putting politics ahead of America.

Good to discuss things with you. I appreciate your military service. Thanks.

Yeah, so I'm clear... Republicans don't play politics, you're actually saying that? Everyone in politics plays politics! Not one person in politics would stand up for their beliefs if it went against their voting base. Then again, it's not their job! Our representitives are elected to represent. Just like a cop who doesn't agree with a law, but their job is to enforce that law.

Your comment that we should expect a lot from someone before they become citizens, how does that affect babies? I'm not just talking the babies of legal/illegal immigrants, I mean your child? Everyone takes something different from every class in school. I remember thinking taking my government classes that this country was founded by people who had fled another country, wanted to create an open evironment that was a home to someone who had no home or wanted a new one. I have absolutely no doubt you see it differently. That's your peroggative. I'd rather this country be a haven then a bank. I agree, no different then if I moved to another country I would expect and be expected to learn that country's language, I would require at least a passing understanding. When I just read through the naturalization rules, it is. I haven't taken the test to be a citizen, so I cannot comment with authority whether that rule is followed.

I would give anyone that wanted entry, entry. If you're coming for work then you get a guest worker pass, if you're coming for school then you get a student visa, if you're coming for the fun of it you get a temp pass. Here's where it's a little different, rather then right now the way it is that someone gets a visa they have x amount of time. If they don't either come back and reapply or check in as they leave, then there are two potential avenues. Maybe we then hunt them down, actively look for someone who has overstayed their welcome. Or we passivly wait for them to get a traffic ticket or apply for a blockbuster card or whatever, and then we arrest them. But once arrested, we then politely deport them and ask they not return. I don't agree with putting them in jail, mainly because yes we would then be paying for them to eat and shower. If they break the rules they then aren't allowed a visa/pass again. But if you make getting a visa easy enough, that's not a big concern. People don't jump over fences if they don't have to.

You just told me I was not making a good debate by saying I didn't provide any data, yet your rebut is "I don't know anyone whohas changed..." That you don't know anyone personally doesn't account for the other 299 million people (I'm assuming you've got a huge following on myspace). And you're right, polls can be skewed, but what else is there? I mean, if you just say you don't know anyone that has been to the Grand Canyon, does it not exist? Polling is the only way to sample what society knows or thinks. Oh, and Liberals aren't the only ones that use polls. I'm pretty sure that everyone does. I could take a poll to find out. In the spirit of the argument, I don't want them to drill, I know some people that do and some that don't. So I guess it's 50/50.

I gave an example of when it would have been easy for the repubs to put politics ahead of country and didn't. Of course, politicians are politicians--in lesser matters than national security it can be tolerated at times. In the famous case of I voted for the 93 billion before I voted against it, someone brought up the fact that several leading repubs had voted against the 93 billion before they voted for it. They were probably trying to get some petty political advantage but when it came time to support the troops they did. Does John Kerry wish he had done the right thing?

by being born here. I thank my Creator for that. But we can't take everyone who wants to come here. Maybe the brave ones should stay and change their own countries. We need to control entry for our security. Do you believe that all who enter are our friends? \If you believe in open borders, McCain and Bush should be your heros.

I still see no one changing their habits due to fear. The real fearmongers today are the AGW alarmists talking about significant changes due to warming in absence of any real evidence. Gore's movie was so full of hyperbole that England ruled they had to have disclaimers and Al Gore didn't believe it enough to change his lifestyle until his hypocrisy was outed. That is today's real fear mongering. I do believe that during the election season there was some manipulation of alert levels to take advantage of the fact that people did not believe that Kerry was up to protecting us. That is in the past. And of course we did have real terrorist attacks over 30 years. We are now expected to radically change our lifestyle based upon the business/religion that Al Gore is running which incidentally has not happened. And they now deny the science and measurements of the past 10 years.

if you want and I won't reply. I am going out of town. I have the utmost faith in veterans--as a matter of fact vets and active duty soldiers should have their votes count double.