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Comment on:
Calling a Spade a Spade
Why Black History Month Matters
40 Comments
Friday, February, 06, 2009 11:16 AM
The Crawfish
writes:
The stuff you're talkin' about
shouldn't be considered "Black history," but rather simply "history." We should all be exposed to that information without it being specially designated or only taught in the historically black colleges. History is history, and I don't care what the skin color of the person who made it is. Sadly, that's not the case for a lot of folks.
Good post, my friend.
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 11:42 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Exactly Craw
But the sad fact is that this aspect of history is very rarely included in a history curriculum. If it were there would cease to be a need for Black History Month, but until that happens BHM is still very much needed.
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 12:30 PM
BrianR
writes:
Flag
First, Pasadena Phil wanted me to tell you that he gets your alerts and reads your essays, but was kicked off the TH site back during the election, and so can't respond. Evidently, the TH powers that be didn't like the tenor of his criticism of the RINOs.
As to Black History Month.
When's Armenian History Month?
Can you tell me why Saint Gregory the Illuminator was so important to Christianity? Who was the first Emperor to adopt Christianity as the official religion? What happened to Armenians under the Ottomans from 1914 to 1917?
Etc.
Sorry, I don't buy into this. To me it's a perpetuation of the victimhood mentality, and like Craw wrote, it's *history*, and should be treated as such, not enshrined as something special and separate.
Armenians have "Armenian schools" which teach our special history to those who are interested enough to enroll their children in such institutuions. We don't ask for a "special month" to commemorate our history.
Or, to couch it in another and less esoteric group: when's American Indian Month? I'm sure the Indians can make some pretty compelling arguments as to why they deserve one.
How about Japanese-American month? They were all herded off into concentration camps during WW2, in spite of which they fielded one of the most-decorated combat units of the war, the 442nd RCT.
IMO, no group deserves a "month" or any other special consideration. If the history of any group is compelling or important enough to be taught within the limited time constraints available during the scholastic year, the natural competition of priorities will see that it is.
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 1:44 PM
BrianR
writes:
Well, I just have to laugh
This essay motivated me to look up American commemorative months, and what a surprise! February is ALSO:
Black History Month
Canadian History Month
National Sweet Potato Month
National Boost-Your-Self-Esteem Month
National Canned Food Month
National Hot Breakfast Month
National Snack Food Month
Berry Fresh in the Sunshine State Month
National Dental Month
Return Shopping Carts to the Supermarket Month
Chocolate Lover's Month
Bake for Family Fun Month
Great American Pies Month
North Carolina Sweet Potato Month
National Grapefruit Month
National Cherry Month
National Bird Feeding Month
National Pudding-Snack Month
American History Month
Creative Romance Month
Human Relations Month
AMD/Low Vision Awareness Month
American Heart Month
National Children’s Dental Health Month
National Wise Health Consumer Month
International Mother Language Day Month
Prenatal Infection Prevention Month
Native American Heritage Month
Looks like the Indians ALREADY jumped on your bandwagon there, Flag.
I REALLY like the "Return Shopping Carts to the Supermarket Month". Yep! Pretty important!
For a comprehensive list of commemoratives, here's the Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commemorative_months
Damn! You look at that list, and it kinda turns out that if you DON'T have some kind of month for yourself or your group, you're kinda one of life's losers.
Kinda like being the guy who couldn't get a date for the Prom.
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 1:50 PM
BrianR
writes:
Mark your calenders!
National Noodle Ring month is December.
And National P*mp Month (I kid you not) is June.
(The asterisk is an "i" -- thank you TH censors)
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 6:51 PM
clyde
writes:
Edamon
Good post,I do agree with Crawfish,but history of ANY sort doesn't seem to be taught much these days.Is there a short,fat guy month?mwahahahahaa
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 9:04 PM
Edamon50
writes:
Brian
What did PasPhil do to get kicked off TH? That doesn't seem to happen every day around here, but the powers that be often seem to be a bit thin skinned if you don't agree with their, ahem, wisdom.
I don't know exactly what Saint Gregory the Illuminator did, mainly because a. there are 3 Saint Gregory's in the history of the Catholic Church and all are known for different things and b. I am not a Catholic and don't really care what his importance was to the Catholic Church.
Constantine was the first emperor to adopt Christianity as the official state religion for Rome, just before moving the seat of the empire from Rome to Constantinople.
The Ottoman Turks persecuted and slaughtered the Armenians in what many Armenians and other groups consider to be a genocide.
So there are the answers to the questions that you asked me.
As for Black History Month, I do not see it as a continuation of any type of victim mentality. I believe it to be exactly what I described and nothing more. When Mr. Woodson started the first Negro History Week, the history of Blacks was not being being taught in the regular school curricula and it still isn't. I have a son in the 8th grade and we have pretty schools here, but he has never been taught anything about the impact of Black citizens in this country outside of the usual suspects: Rosa Parks, MLK, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman. There is nothing wrong with that, but God knows that we have contributed more to this country than a few names and slavery! But that is as far as our current curricula goes in teaching about Blacks in regular history classes. That is why this is important, so that every kid in class...Black, White, Mexican, Armenian...can get an understanding that Blacks have contributed more to this nation than just slavery, Jackie Robinson, and MLK.
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Friday, February, 06, 2009 9:09 PM
Edamon50
writes:
clyde
I agree as well, but we aren't at that point where Black contrubutions are part of the regular lessons. If the day comes where you open up a history book that traces the coming of Blacks to America and their cultural history the same way we see the coming of the Pilgrims and their history, then Black History Month would no longer be needed. Until then, we have to take this month to do as much teaching and exposing of the entire nation to our history as we can.
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Saturday, February, 07, 2009 12:59 AM
BrianR
writes:
Well, Flag
Again, that's where we disagree. Sure, there are Black people who've done some pretty remarkable things, just like there are Indians and Japanese-Americans and people of about every OTHER race who have also done the same thing.
So... let them all compete for time in class curriculae, just as I wrote. No favorites for anyone.
BTW, some of your answers were wrong. Saint Gregory the Illuminator founded the Armenian Apostolic Church (he had nothing to do with Catholicism), now known as the Gregorian Church, and Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity -- in 301 AD -- not Rome. Constantine banned the persecution of Christians in 313 AD and later converted to Christianity, then imposed it on the Eastern Roman Empire... but Armenia was first.
That, of course, being my point.
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Saturday, February, 07, 2009 7:05 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Brian
point taken, but it also proves my point. We are not being taught history as history...anything that is not deemd to be western history is ignored. As for others in this nation who have contributed, I am not saying that they do not deserve to be recognized...on the contrary, I say that their accomplishments should be incorporated into regular history lessons as well. We should know more about the Native Americans than the Trail of Tears, we should know more about Asian Americans than their WW2 internment, but we don't. And when we continue to ignore their contributions and the fact their blood, sweat, and tears helped build this nation we devalue them. Our teaching of histroy teaches children of all races that Native Americans, Asian American, and Blacks were nothing more than victims. Negro History Week and now Black History Month were founded to counter the notion that Blacks were only slaves, were only used for labor, and contributed nothing more than that. Black History Month is a way to show everyone, especially Blacks, that we are not victims and that we helped build this nation and helped it develop into the nation that it is today. I fail to see the "victim mentality" in any of that!
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Saturday, February, 07, 2009 11:41 AM
BrianR
writes:
Okay,
Ignore the "victim mentality" aspect. That's fairly irrelevant to my point.
Actually, as I think about it, I'd say that has more to do with White Guilt than victimhood anyway. Some kind of self-flagellating mea culpa.
I'm not very invested in this topic one way or the other, other than as an interesting conversation. I've always thought commemorative weeks or months were a pretty silly idea that didn't accomplish anything anyway. That's why I pointed out "ring noodle month" and "p*mp month". What the hell IS a ring noodle, anyway?
People being people, they'll take from it what they will. To you, it's a big deal. To me, it's a non-event. To those yahoos in the white robes, it's more justification for their irrationality. All in all, pretty much a wash.
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Sunday, February, 08, 2009 12:21 PM
buck
writes:
Well, Flagwaver
I am a history buff. Have been all my life. Only thing I 'aced' in school.
Black History, as you would teach it would be riveting.
Black "History" as it is taught is nothing more than another podium to preach hatred towards whites for something that happened before your and my grand parents were born.
The Black "History" classes being taught might as well be using "Mandingo" or "Drum" for their textbooks.
While the ramblings of H. Rap Brown will be discussed and studied the accomplishments of G.W. Carver will be glossed over (He was an Uncle Tom, don't you know).
W.E.B. DuBois will be elevated. Who knows who I.M. Terrel is?
Now, you want to teach a Real history class?
Go ahead.
I'll sign up.
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Sunday, February, 08, 2009 12:57 PM
Klemkadiddle
writes:
Buck. I concur.
I could not improve on your post. You have responsibly represented my own impressions.
My interest in history that include Africans begins with Sheba and has hovered for several years in East Africa. Rwanda and The Congo are of vital interest to the United States.
Inevitably my study of the recent genocide invariably raises concerns about the future of divided U.S. Some of the realities I am discovering are irreconcilable with present tendencies and currents in North America. Obviously, the subject is too broad for a discussion here.
I do recommend to "Spade" that he reconsider the injudicious and counter productive use of the word "black." I attempted to underscore the obvious almost 50 years ago without any success.
Your juxtaposing W.E.B DuBois with Carver was an unexpected cogency. I endorse your seminal theme encouraging the study of African History and, presumably in that course, the pervasive geopolitical significance of African Americans. DuBois is a dnagerously discordant note.
As an aside, I must say that if I could be extended another generation, i would build a home on the shores of Lake Kivu. Of course, at the moment I would need a fortune to hire a contingent of the magificient Tutus to keep me maintain life, limb and domain. Another story, indeed.
Happy Trails.
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Sunday, February, 08, 2009 7:25 PM
clyde
writes:
Edamon
Some real good comments here,Flag,along with a DAMN good suggestion. Teach Black history as it SHOULD be taught.I'm with Buck,sign me up as well. I would venture to say you are FAR more qualified than most teachers. My memory sometimes fails me,E-50,I know you've said what you do,but this ol'fool forgot. Aside to Brian:re ring noodle, possibly a Spaghetti-O?
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Sunday, February, 08, 2009 11:10 PM
BrianR
writes:
Clyde...maybe
I even googled "ring noodle", and got nowhere.
But somehow, it's got its own month.
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Monday, February, 09, 2009 10:51 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Klem, Buck, and Clyde...and Brian too
I am currently a student majoring in history with a minor in polisci, with a bent towards teaching at the middle or high school level. I would love to teach that sort of class, but as of now I am still learning, and once I get into the public school system it may not be feasible as a course. I am sure that I could work some of it into an American history course, but the way the curriculum is set up right now, there is really no room for it.
Brian, I understnad and respect your feeling that this is a non event, but for me and many other Blacks it is certainly not that. This is the one time of year that school actually step aside from the regular timeline of Black history that has been established and teach something else. As for this being some type of White guilt, the last time I checked it was Carter G. Woodson who established Negro History Week...so where does White guilt apply?
And aside to Klem: I have refered to myself as an African-American and been accused of trying to separate myself from the bulk of the American people by doing so, but for some reason saying that I am Black does not get the same reaction. Besides, I have refered to myself as a Black person nearly my entire life, and I don't want to change now.
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Monday, February, 09, 2009 11:31 AM
clyde
writes:
E-50
Well,my friend,here lies your calling. This could be your chance to effect REAL change. Develop your OWN cirriculum. Any law stating you can't do that? I think,at the very least,it would make a mighty fine Masters thesis. You never know where that could lead you.Some food for thought,if nothing else.
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Monday, February, 09, 2009 11:58 AM
Klemkadiddle
writes:
50.Separates you from bulk of Americans?
Interesting. Could you expand that concept? Are you saying that use of the only legitimate historic frame of reference separates "Blacks" from the American population?
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Tuesday, February, 10, 2009 12:51 AM
BrianR
writes:
Flag, you miss the obvious in
your question to me.
If "white guilt" weren't seriously in play, the whole idea of "Black History Month" would have gone about as far as "ring noodle month".
I'd have thought that was obvious.
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Tuesday, February, 10, 2009 11:48 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Brian
Black History Month has nothing to do with White guilt. It was started by a Black historian/intellectual for the purposes of educating Black people about their history, so where exactly does White guilt come into play in this? Black people were the first to recognize and participate in Negro History Week and we are the ones who sustain it today; the programs and information are open and available anyone with interest but is primarily for and about Black people. I just don't see how White guilt has anything to do with the founding or sustaining of Negro History Week/Black History Month.
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Tuesday, February, 10, 2009 11:52 AM
Edamon50
writes:
clyde
If I am going to teach in the North Carolina public school system, I will have to conform to their curriculum guidelines. When I was a kid teachers had a lot more freedom, so long as the basics were well covered; now with the reliance on federal dollars in the system, teacher independence is pretty much gone. But a lot of what I was talking about should be included in World History classes, because as they stand now World History classes only focus on western Europe, with the histories of Africa, Asia, and eastern Europe pretty well ignored or glossed over.
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Tuesday, February, 10, 2009 12:01 PM
Edamon50
writes:
Klem
I am not saying that using the term african-American separates me from society, i am relaying what some conservatives have said to me. Go to page 11 on my archive, read the post "It's a Black Thing" and the comments to get a flacor of what I am talking about when I make that particular statement. Far too often when a Black person says he is an African-American he is accused of Balkanization, of placing his race before his nation, or of trying to create a separate existence from the country...when usually nothing could be further from the truth.
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Tuesday, February, 10, 2009 11:10 PM
clyde
writes:
E50
Since I do not know what the curriculum laws are,E,I'll take your word. Ever think about opening a charter school,or academy? Would N.C. law permit such a thing? Private school,private money,tell the federales to go... well,you get my drift. Hell,I never thought I could run a trucking business either. A school can't be that much harder,especially if YOU are setting the rules.
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Wednesday, February, 11, 2009 11:37 AM
BrianR
writes:
It doesn't matter who started it
What matters is that it became prominent.
Unlike "ring noodle month".
And THAT wouldn't have happened if whites -- the vast majority in this country -- hadn't embraced, accepted, and promoted it.
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Thursday, February, 12, 2009 8:59 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Okay Brian
So if I am to understand correctly, the only reason that Negro History Week/Black History Month is even around is because of the massive support of white people? So does that mean that even though white people by and large don't do anything really to commemorate it, it exists simply because of their interest? And if that is what you're saying, do you know what that sounds like? It sounds like you're saying that black commemorations and by extensions exist only because white people ALLOW them to exist because of their guilt. If that's not what you're saying, please correct me, because that is exactly what it sounds like to me.
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Thursday, February, 12, 2009 9:01 AM
Edamon50
writes:
clyde
There are plenty of charter schools here in NC, so that would not be the problem. But dude, let me get my degree and get a few years in the system inside a classroom before we start talking about me creating a charter school! But I do appreciate the fact that you have that type of confidence in my abilities...thanks for the confidence boost!
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Thursday, February, 12, 2009 9:16 AM
Edamon50
writes:
one more thing Brian
If you want to find out a little about the origins of Negro History Week, check this website:http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/01/30/extra.black.history.month/index.html
For 50 years (1926-1976) Black History Month was not nationally rcognized and totally sustained by the black community, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you because it could have ONLY become prominent because of white guilt, right. But tell me, how much of that white guilt was around in 1926, 1936, 1946, 1956, or 1966?
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Thursday, February, 12, 2009 11:13 AM
BrianR
writes:
Yes, Flag, that's
exactly what I'm saying.
Go to that Wiki link and look at all the commemorative months there, including for all kinds of ethnic groups. Why are none of them Big Sellers?
Because the majority of people in this country don't think or haven't thought they're important.
And who is that majority? White people.
It's no different from anything else. Why are some TV shows popular, and others cancelled after 3 weeks? Why are some movies blockbusters, and others are duds?
Blacks comprise somewhere around 12% of the populace. 12% can't manage to foist a major initiative onto the educational curriculum of a country without the cooperation of the other 88%.
(and yes, I know white people aren't the entire 88%. This is simplified for clarity and brevity)
BTW, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with all of this. That's the way marketing works. As I wrote, I'm not invested in this issue at all.
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Thursday, February, 12, 2009 11:14 AM
BrianR
writes:
PS, Flag
Your second comment only proves my point.
Black History Month didn't become popular UNTIL Whites signed onto it.
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Saturday, February, 14, 2009 11:17 AM
clyde
writes:
E-50
The bill is in the mail.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 8:45 AM
Ralph Ellison
writes:
Hello Flag
Hey Flag. Long time no talk. I hope all is well with you and your family. I haven't been on TH since before the election of President Obama. It seems as if nothing has changed. Well, except for your name. LOL
As for your post, I think this is the first time ever where we actually agree on every point that you made.
Black History Month is still relevant. I can tell you from personal experience that when I was in school from K-12th grade, Black History was primarily glossed over. The only teacher I can recall highlighting black achievement was Sister Geri in the 7th grade. Even then, it was relegated to a week where we learned ad nasieum about MLK, Harriet Tubman, and Rosa Parks. That was it.
Thankfully, I had parents and grandparents who made it there mission to celebrate blackness even when the schools would degrade blackness. I remember going to the National Museum of African Art, visiting the National Great Blacks In Wax Museum, taking a walking tour of Harlem, visiting the King Center in Atlanta, going to Annapolis during the Kunta Kinte Heritage Festival, and meeting such civil rights luminaries as Dorothy Height, Walter E. Fauntroy, and Andrew Young. All this happened when I was a kid to young adult. While I was at HU, that is when I was taught in an academic setting African History. I still have several books of John Henrik Clarke, George Padmore, Frantz Fanon, Nathan Hare, Asa Hilliard, and Ivan van Sertima.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 8:46 AM
Ralph Ellison
writes:
Flag pt.2
Perhaps even more meaningful to me was learning the history of my own family in America. I still carry with me the tales of my ancestors being slaves in South Carolina and Virginia. The stories of forced rape, lynching, and terror that was inflicted upon my ancestors still haunt me to this day. Yet, the stories of ultimate triumph and success help sustain me and give me an abounding sense of pride. That to me is the crux of why Black History Month is so important.
The truth is that many African Americans still lack pride in our selves and our past. For so long, we were taught that we contributed nothing to this nation and world. Many were taught that our history began with slavery. Many more were taught to view our African homeland as the "Dark Continent" full of "savages, tigers, and lions." Purposefully, our history was ignored and callously disparaged by the mainstream.
Thankfully, Carter G. Woodson stood up and demanded that the truth be taught. He made it his life's work to highlight our contributions to the progress of mankind. To him, we all owe a debt of gratitude and must continue to his vision.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 8:56 AM
Ralph Ellison
writes:
BTW
I find it funny that BrianR somehow beleives Black History Month resulted from "white guilt" (whatever the hell that is) and helps to perpetuate "victimhood". LMAO!!!! That is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
As for his suggestion for Armenian History Month, I'm all for it. However, I can foretell some conservative hicks protesting it as "Arab" and "communist". Lol!!!
To the poster buck, I'm quite amused by his post. I must also question what school ever teaches about H. Rap Brown??? I went to an HBCU and he was never discussed at all. Also, what school doesn't talk about GW Carver. That is standard during Black History Month. However, I would love to see a school explore his personal life, particularly his sexuality. Very rarely are GLBT African Americans discussed.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 10:39 AM
Edamon50
writes:
that is a first
But even political opposites will share some views, you know! Like I said elsewhere, it is amazing to me that some folks are concerned so much with "white guilt" that every time blacks as a group achieve something, white guikt is given as the reason. Now, i believe that there is a phenomenon out there among white folks that constitutes "white guilt", but it has no place here.
As for family history, my dad has never told me any stories about his family because his dad never told him. I know some things, but my grandfather died before I could ever ask him anything about his life. My maternal grandfather was a great source of family knowledge and really started passing it down to me when he felt I was old enough to understand and appreciate it, and I in turn pass it to my children.
But the fact is that even now, we are not taught enough about who we are, and the schools gloss over our history and our contributions. That is why Black History Month matters and until we are given our due in the regular curriculum, it will remain a part of the landscape. As for GW Carver, I don't care about his sexuality, but it would be great if his accomplishments were taught and highlighted.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 11:20 AM
BrianR
writes:
Well, Ralph
The school year's about 9 months long, and there are a lot more than nine ethnic groups in the country.
There are only 8 of those 9 months left unclaimed now, so the other groups better hurry up and stake their claims!
Everyone else will just be SOL.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 9:08 PM
Ralph Ellison
writes:
Flag
It is a first. Hell, If we can be exactly on the same page, then anything is possible. lol
I'm also with you about the whole white guilt thing. It seems as if white cons love to throw that term around. It bothers me too. As I've said before, the GOP better wake up and stop the racial insensitivity. The world and this country are changing rapidly. They better embrace diversity or become a casualty of it.
I'm sorry to hear that about your family history. I would suggest that you try and do some research through either the National Archives or ancestry.com. Furthermore, resources like local libraries and local government offices are great place to start. You would be surprised by how much you can find.
You are absolutely correct about important Black History is. As you wonderfully stated, many African Americans are still not our past and our contributions to this world. As Marcus Garvey said, "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots."
As for GW Carver, I too am not really enthralled with his sexual proclivities. However in convo with my best friend and godfather to my daughter, I have a greater appreciation to the struggles many of our GLBT sisters and brothers go through.He is a gay black man who faces a double entendre of prejudice daily. I tell him all the time that I admire him for his courage. I really believe that for the sake of the young GLBT African Americans, positive gay black role models like Carver, Barbara Jordan, Benjamin Bannrker, Langston Hughes, etc should be highlighted as to instill a sense of pride and knowledge in these young people. They need to know that they are just as much a part of history as me and you.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 9:13 PM
Ralph Ellison
writes:
BrianR
LOL.
I hope all is well with you.
Again, I'm all for highlighting the diversity of this wonderful earth. While I understand the constraints of the average American school, I wish more would be taught about various cultures. I'd love to see Armenian History Month or a least ore incorporated into history textbooks.
Personally, I'd love to learn more about Armenian history. Got any good book suggestions?
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 9:09 AM
Edamon50
writes:
Ralph
I see where you're coming from on the GLBT issue, but again it just isn't germane to me in conversations on history. I don't particularly care what people do behind closed doors...that's between them and their significant other. I just don't see where highlighting the fact that Hughes, Banneker, or Jordan were/are homosexual adds to their accomplishments. But hey, that's just me!
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:17 PM
BrianR
writes:
Ralph
Hahahahaha!
Hope all's well with you, too.
Unfortunately, I'm not a good source for recommended reading on Armenian History. I know very little of it myself, and the few facts I do know are little nuggets that stuck in my mind from the one summer I attended an Armenian summer camp as a little kid.
I couldn't speak the language, couldn't read the writing, and didn't have a clue most of the time what was going on. Needless to say, it wasn't one of the fun times of my life.
I DID enjoy the archery sessions, though!
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Wednesday, February, 25, 2009 3:04 PM
Cindy
writes:
Flagwaiver
I don't have nor ever had "White Guilt" My Forefathers were part of the solution.. not part of the problem... Even So Mankind has always exploited given the opportunity if there's something to gain. Since you are limited in what's acceptable in the public school's curriculum I don't think there will ever be a accurate account of American History. I do believe that race became an issue because of slavery...As a people African Americans were given negative differential treatment after the Civil War up until the Civil Rights Movement... Mandated differential treatment is now used/exploited to keep America separated and in a weakened state where ever possible.
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