Reasonists to Religionists: "Save yourself from yourself"

A study of history, whether cursory ir in depth puts the faith of the founding father's on display. The different religious philosophies did not get in the way of this country's founding. Because of the different philosophies they prohibited the Federal Government from establishing its own church. This left everyone with the right to believe and worship or not worship as they thought right. It is impossible to seperate religion and politics. Religion is how we practice our faith, nothing more. Our faith is what helps us make decisions. If there wasn't faith, there would just be something else we used in its stead. It is impossible for anyone or anything to seperate the two.

It's funny how the religious right is accused of taking over the GOP. What about all the liberal/leftist religious practicers who have thrown their support in with the Dems? Why does one get press and the other doesn't?

Mark, you have a higher faith in mankind than I do. I have pretty much gone to the cynical side in terms of human behavior. However, I am still a romantic at heart. This causes big internal battles when evaluating situations. What will versus what could happen.

James, what I wonder is, what's so "conservative" about these libertarian idealogues? The just world they envision, which arises out of reason thoroughly purged of piety, has never existed for even a moment, or in any measure.

It's history interpreted in light of my piety, that teaches me that the government cannot save from poverty, hatred, or any other kind of self-destruction. The power of the state is limited to the enforcement of law. It can only destroy and reward.

It's my religion that teaches me not to look to government for the creation of the institutions of civilization, or to make the people righteous or wise.

But the ideologue that I quote above thinks that the Constitution - a legislative act of government - created our civilization, and is our font of virtue. Besides not being a Christian opinion, there is also nothing "conservative" about it.

What I find vexing is how people think that everything they believe must be conveniently placed into one box. I agree that the Constitution did not create our nation it is only what we decided to live by. There is nothing in the constitution that conflicts with Christian beliefs, nor Jewish for that matter.

I also believe that big government with big ideas and big programs is a disaster.

By the way, it would be unreasonable, and illogical, to take piety out of the world. Who then determines morals? Without piety there is no moral or ethical standard. Murder, rape, and any other crime that man commits would be relative to the morals of humanists.

I hope none of this is coming across as condescending. I am actually enjoying this.

The Encyclopedia Britannica says that conservatism is "a preference for the historically inherited rather than the abstract and ideal" This defines both, the word and the movement.

But this does not at all describe the libertarian wing, in its secularist aspect. The conservative consensus is a coincidence of our traditional interpretation of history, and the libertarian's abstract and idealistic notions.

The comments cited illustrate that secularism, even in its libertarian form, does not ultimately tend toward constitutional, democratic republicanism. Its inclination is always toward rebellion against tradition and proper authority. It always results in experiments in over-simplification, disconnected from real society and real history in all of its complexity: a narrow box no bigger than a man's head, into which it always hopes, disastrously, to squeeze the world.

Christians can learn from secularists, as well as benefit them. But we must not actually TRUST them.

Government is to enforce basic law (the Constitution and the rights it recognizes). It can also reward those things; family, entrepreneurship, etc...that can, through reasoning, be shown to sustain a healthy nation.

Doesn't it seem that pundits discussing religion and politics constantly stumble when God is referenced, not in a religious sense, but in worldview sense. I.E. Conservatism holds Natural Law and Individual Rights to exist, and that both have a source - the Creator.

This is not "religious", it is an understanding of how the universe is ordered. Religion and God are not the same thing, but are continually taken as such in the types of articles you cited in your post.