McCain vs. Obama: Different Approaches to the 3 AM Moment in Georgia

when two sides are fighting, both are at fault and should stop. The details of the situation matter not a whit.

As to what the US should do, it seems this will need to be some sort of [gulp] UN/peacekeeping thing.

btw...You mentioned that Georgia has the third most troops in Iraq. I read this morning that they are being evacuated home immediately.

In addition to the differences you point our in the statements, there is another issue that is appropriate. When has Obama ever been forced to act on his words - that's all he has going for him - words. I have no confidence that he will back up whatever he says. At least, I do believe that John's words are carefully chosen and he will back up what he says he will do. I just don't trust Obama as far as I can throw Jupiter (the planet). Good post!

Great Post, the contrasts speak for themselves

that is a consideration as well. I just focused on the differences in verbal responses, but there is also how likely they are of backing them up or following through.

Scatbug, Obama is the typical morally vacuous liberal....there is never any difference in right or wrong between two sides of an arguement to a liberal thinker.

They are pulling 1,000 of the 2,000 home immediately is what I read, and asking American technical assistance to get them back...I wonder, would returning troops to a war zone be considered an act of war by Russia? What about what I have read about 1,000 American soldiers who were there a month ago training several hundred Georgian troops to go to Afghanistan? We may be more involved in this than we wantto be. As far as it goes, Scatbug, I agree this ought to be a peacekeeping mission. I would tend towards NATO to bypass the Russian veto though.

I cannot agree that the details of the situation don't matter. You are creating an automatic moral equivalence between an agressor and the "victim" entity. If they went to war concurrently, that's one thing, but when Russia drops bombs on civilians and is the obvious agressor, that's where the pressure needs to be applied. UN peacekeeping? UN "peacekeeping" forces have often caused more problems than they've solved - they're a joke.

was saying to a liberal moral equivocator, facts and details do not matter, because his title said "with Obama", then went on to say that.

getting us some quotes to compare about incursions into the sovereign territory of the United States by members of the Mexican armed forces. They may sound a little more similar to each other.

this was a good post, very interesting and good analysis.

You misread my comment. The automatic/non-thinking response in a situation like this for Obama, or any liberal, is to call for restraint on both sides. (Thanks Wil for pointing that out.) How a country which has been invaded/attacked is supposed to show restraint is of course the great liberal folly.

As for UN peacekeeping, yeah it sucks. But that may be the only noncombat option we have. I can't imagine Russia allowing NATO troops on its southern border, especially in a region Putin et al consider part of the Motherland.

To be honest, I don't see this having a rosy ending. The two most likely scenarios to me seem to be either Georgia losing its Sudetenland, or UN peacekeepers running a thriving sex trade operation.

Thanks for the clarification on Georgia's Iraq commitment. I had read a news wire summary stating all of them were going. (You'd think I'd learn...) To my mind, Russia is pretty much looking for anything to call an act of war.

Also...Do you know if our guys are still in Georgia? You're right. That certainly adds a bit of a wrinkle to things.

in Georgia by the various reports I have read. The base they are at near the capital was shelled on the first wave of the air assault, but according to reports, none of our people were hurt.

Did Georgian anti-aircraft batteries actually shoot down 10 Russian fighters? TEN?!? (That's according to a Reuters report.)

they are pulling out the whole 2,000. Either I read wrong info before, or they have changed their mind. I can't say I blame them....this isn't Spain retreating after getting a bomb threat.

it says 2 planes. On MSNBC, it says Georgia claims 10 planes, Russia admits 2. Both sources say they are bombing the Black Sea port, and sites all over the country. They are not restricting it to the breakaway regions.

Garnet92 makes a good point when it comes to Oback. He hasn't been around long enough to compile a lengthly record of action. With McCain at least we know what we're getting. I love the way Obama brags about his opposition to the war when as an Illinois state Senator he really had no ability to vote for or against the war. His actual record in the Illinois Senate seems to have been a string of "present" votes instead taking a stand. Who's to know if he might have just voted "present" in the US Senate had he been there when the Iraq war vote occurred. One vote and action we can be sure of, as demonstrated in the Illinois Senate, is if a vote comes up on the choice of snuffing out the life of babies accidently born alive during an abortion, we can count on a thumbs down vote by Senator Obama. With AACLU, NARL, Emily's list, and Planned Parenthood financial support on the line he will definitely make that tough moral choice.

Ditto.

And yes the Georgian troops in Iraq are being pulled out, but not all of them last I saw.

The old Bear still has a growl or two left.

Great post. Great analysis. I am with you, and Obama's statements further evidence his view that he is a citizen of the world, and much more like Chamberlain than Churchill. Speaking of Chamberlain, for those who didn't catch the HILARIOUS video made by film producer David Zucker last year about appeasement, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w77sLtz754

I have to say that while this highlights some of Obamas many shortcomings, it also is very concerning....Bush has rightly held up Georgia as a former Soviet Republic that is going in the right direction...and we seem to have few if any good options to stop Russia from putting a scare in every former Republic from Central Asia to the Baltic, that looks for closer ties to the West and supports us in hopes we will support them. I think McCain with his quick and tough stand, showed that he gets this even more than Bush does...if we let Georgia lose, and Russia win, we will see very little help from countries like Tajikistan that support us now in Afghanistan because they will see that Georgias support of us in Iraq, desire to join NATO, and westernization led to Russian anger, and Russian anger led to typical Western hand wringing when the bear growled....somehow, we need to stop Russian aggression, and I have to admit not knowing how best to do it.

...and now Georgia sees the inevitable. Oy.

btw...I meant to compliment you on the your great series of posts. Really outstanding.

we haven't lost Georgia, now let's see what's done with the rest of the country and it's defense after this cools down. The coming days in Georgia will be very interesting.

I think that Georgia may lose this province, what we must not allow is Russia to change the internal politics of Georgia or overrun the whole country. Honestly losing this province hurts as a matter of pride and logistically, but economically not so much.

Thanks for the compliment

really, really fascinating to see the statements side by side. i would note the key words being "perilous course" in reference to russia. this is a warning. it truly is fascinating to see the two compared head-on. you won't see this at CNN (completely nuts network)...

This little Russian incursion isn't a small thing and the repercussions are huge. The West has to take an immediate stand or pay a bigger and bigger price. The clock has already moved well past 3 am. McCain gets this, Obama does not.

You are so right! West must but will they? past history says NO!

look into Putin's eyes and think YOU could trust him? I looked at him and I saw a killer, greed, and a boastful man. This is KGB, I agree w/Mc on this! One who wants to rebuild the Soviet Union at ALL costs. I also saw a man who is manipulative enough to fool our current gullible leader.

When did Russia ever do anything truly in the name of peace in the long run? They want to be a superpower again and they've built their wealth. Now they're about to use it and their uranium, etc. to go after what they want! By hook or by crook, let me know if I'm wrong in a couple of years.

The conflict in Georgia should wake up the world to what is at stake. McCain knows all to well what it is like when Socialist rule he spent 5 years in torture. Putin saw his opportunity and took advantage. Yes, he wants to restore the Sovit Union....and more!

conflict, wil, and the approach of a community organizer to the dangers we face is comical.

...I'll hold my nose and vote straight gop again. At least McCain is right on the mark on issues like this. Obama is wrong on every issue. Darvin Dowdy