What Universal Health Care Is All About?

I don't have a real big problem with Universal Health Care. I do believe that as the greatest nation on earth we should provide for all or our citizens.
It's just that Obama's universal health care is just an elaborate ruse to provide unrestricted abortions on demand. Those of us that have fought against the killing of the most innocent can see that this is what we will be powerless to prevent. The liberals don't need to pack the Supreme Court with liberal judges, they will get their way thanks to this horrendous health care plan.

merely, and unfortunately, part of the deal. I agree with you about the abortion issue. But I find myself in a dilemma because too many in the pro-life side are not sufficiently alarmed by war, the environment, and the social darwinism that is part of our economic system.

I have concluded that abortion becomes a mute issue if we wreck the world by waging war or destroying the environment.

being forced to share at gunpoint is called stealing by Normal Moral people. Please stop pretending you care about the individual rights of a woman getting an abortion. The only "right" a liberal believes in is the right to behave irresponsibly and have others pay the consequences. Otherwise Liberals beleive the government should amke everyones decisions for them. They are at heart spoiled little five year olds who what everything their way, and don't understand why they can't have it

I am sorry to tell you this. But its time to grow up. You are not in Kindergarten Anymore. Life isn't fair, and stealing from people isn't going to make it more fair.

In the real world, life is hard, and mankind has always struggled to survive. If you can't weave your own social safety net out of people who like you enough (including you own family) to voluntarily help you out when you are down, then you probably don't deserve the help. In real life you will be judged on your actions and choices. In real life not everyone will get a cup cake because effort and limited resources go into making them. Adults can deal with these facts, and take care of themselves.

If these people aren't capable adults who can't take care of themselves, and make their own opportunities (that is where JOBS come from BTW) , we should then treat them like the children they are. They should live in a adult orpahnage where a "Parent" (some self-righteous busybody like yourself) will tell them when to get up, what to eat, when to go to work, when to go to bed. It goes without saying that we don't let children sleep with the opposite sex or vote.

You want the Freedom of a child - Freedom from responsiblity with a Parent who bails you out. Its pathetic. Some us us don't want to live in your kindergarten and be forced to make cupcakes for the Children.

It is time for you to grow up and talk to those who disagee as equals rather than children whom you feel the need to correct. That is not more than an excuse to feel superior to others.

Sorry but the need to act morally is forced upon us and necessarily so. Ironically, the rejection of moral obligations is more associated with the immature than with those who accept responsibility. So your characterization of liberals, besides being baseless is actually opposite of reality. It is the immature who grab for themselves and refuse to share.

What is also the case is that it a delusion to take sole credit for one's success. We live in an interdependent society and will live in such as long as there are transactions between people. Thus we have adult responsibilities for others no matter how remote they may seem.

Also, your view of life being tough is not an excuse to promote a social darwinism where we place minimal value on human life. Try to live in a society where the life is tough is the basics for morality. Those who are stronger or more violent will victimize you and repeat your words to you. We have laws restricting such behavior because society cannot exist that way. Likewise, society cannot exist where we say to those who have not "made it" that life is tough.

Finally, it is you who want the freedom of the child. You want the freedom to ignore responsibilities and obligations to others. And you are the one who talks like a child by talking down to those who disagree. The adults I know talk to others as equals, not as inferiors.

"Sorry but the need to act morally is forced upon us and necessarily so."

Forced upon us by whom and under what circumstances. I obviously have a different Moral code than you. Does that mean I have the right to Force you to believe as I do, and to Follow my Moral Code? (See the Right of Conscience and Religious Freedom) We agreed as a society that each INDIVIDUAL would be FREE to FOLLOW THE DICTATES of their OWN CONSCIENCE. No own voted you judge or master. I cannot talk to you as an "equal" because you are the one refusing to OBEY the agreement betwen us. You are the one attempting to impose your will upon me by force. You are the one acting like a playground bully demanding other people's lunch money. I don't reject that I have moral obligations. I reject the idea that you and people like you are qualified define them for me - especially when you believe in Legalized Theft and indentured servitiude. Do you understand the distinction?

"It is the immature who grab for themselves and refuse to share."

You seem to think there are things there for the "Grabbing." These aren't windfall gains. These are the products of actual labor. Just because I produce something doesn't mean you are entitled to a share of it because you think you want it. 5 Year old children often grab things because they want them, without caring who they "belong to"

The Cupcakes don't appear in the classroom by magic child. You were taught an ethic of sharing in Kindergarten because 5 years old children are not Emotionally mature enough to deal with their own jealosy. Then they gorw up and begin to understand theirs and mine, instead of "mine, mine, mine!"

survive. Without morality, you have an utterly destructive chaotic anarchy or despotism.

In addition, morality is forced upon us when placing a high value on human life. If we do not wish to place such a value on human life, then morals do not matter but that makes everyone a target of everyone.

Also, the people working the hardest are not the ones making the most money. The ones making the most money are living off of the labor of others.

BTW, I was taught something when I was 5 that might have escaped you, that is respect for others. You like to talk down to those you disagree with and call your statements comments. They are not. What you want is for selective individuals to excel with no limits at the expense of others.

Here is some math for you. Liberty - equality = privilege. Rule based on privilege is neither a democracy nor democratic republic. Rule based on privilege is what our founding fathers both tried to escape but once they were here, they embraced for themselves.

You don't respect the rights of property, the right of conscience, or the right to constitutional government , but you learned when you were 5 to respect others! What do you respect about them?

Is not your job to judge how hard you think people work . They get paid in a Voluntary transaction. I offer x for your labor and you agree or you do not. Or you start your own business and make your own product to trade with others. You are only worht what OTHERS DECIDE YOU ARE WORTH and are willing to back up with Money.

You stand on the sidelines and preen about how you would od it differently. Why you are repecting others, why don't you repsect that what goes on between private parties is largely NOT YOUR BUSINESS. It harsm you not one jot when a Baseball team pays a player millions, or when Hollyood pays its talent millions. You go to the game, or to the movie or NOT.

Am I priviliged because I have skills? A Work ethic? Something of value to trade for others.

Thats the grown up world mate. Different people have different Abilties. I will never be a star Baseball player. I am Denied MILLIONS! Oh the unfairness of it all. Federalst #10 again- a Free Society will end up with haves and have nots. You want a unfree society ruled by people like you as the moral judges of us all.

LIFE ISN'T FAIR. All we can do is make the rules fair. It is the liberals who think we shoul have different rules for different groups - not conservatives. Its like the liberals think those groups are inferior in some way.

"What is also the case is that it a delusion to take sole credit for one's success."

Do you listen? I never siad that. A Government is formed to protect property rights ( the right to what you produce, or trade for your production) As such each individual under that government benefits from the increased productivity they enjoy under that system. That doesn't mean the unproductive are entitled to steal from the productive. A person's success is predicated on being able to trade something of value to others in return for value they have produced.

" We live in an interdependent society and will live in such as long as there are transactions between people."

Yes, and are those transactions to be voluntary, or dictated by schoolyard bullies? Our society is successful because we trade with each other without corecion. If you have nothing to offer others, you will find it difficult to join in the trading. The people that take without offering value in return are called thieves, and society was not created for them. It was created to protect the productive FROM them.

"Those who are stronger or more violent will victimize you and repeat your words to you."

And by Bullying people via government, and turning the using the government to commit theft in violation of its primary purpose makes you the stronger doesn't it?

You do not deserve to live among free men, because you do not respect the rights of others. Do not talk of others responsiblities when you your self are trying to transfer what you see as YOUR MORAL responsiblities to others to LIGHTEN YOUR BURDEN. Acting reponsibly means NOT BEING A BURDEN ON OTHERS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Your values, morals and perceptions are those of a 5 Year old. Therefore I tell you that you are behaving like a 5 year old. If you see that as "talking down" to you, that is your perception. My job isn't to sugar coat things for your tender young ears. You are an Adult, right? Be one and deal with the criticism.

Actually, I do respect the right to property and respect hard work. But again, our current economy, especially the stock market, is designed for a few to make their living off the labor of many. That is why unions are busted and laborers are not paid fairly or jobs are moved overseas to employ sweatshop laborers. Our manufacturing has been all but gutted in order for some to make larger, short-term profits.

In the meantime, you have a growing class of working poor, those who work hard. You have others who have tremendous skill who are not paid well or at least not as well as some in the financial sector.

Capitalism is ruining our country because it has had its way and no longer needs us. We were valuable for a while when there were more gov't controls. But once our labor could be discarded, our consumer power dropped and other places became more inviting for investors who were looking out for themselves only.

only the gov't steals. But when companies don't pay fair and livable wages to their employees or ship jobs overseas to employ sweatshop laborers, they are stealing too.

Again, you seem to think that each person has what he has solely because of his own efforts. That is not true in an interdependent society.

people who easily accuse others because of disagreements are not interested in facts and logic.

are the robber-barons who control gov't with their money and dictate policies that benefit themselves at the expense of others.

In fact, that was Adam Smith's observation of the merchants of his day and how they controlled the England.