Those That Trespass

I haven't read the Jacoby column yet, so I guess I'll have to go see what the hubub is about first hand. I agree with everything you say here. Jesus, Himself, said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do," while they were killing Him.

others so we can forgive ourselves. Guilt is a bogus emotion. People who commit crimes without conscience obviously don't feel guilt. We who do are guilty only of being human. As we forgive others, we join the positive community of those following the Creator's plan. Forgiveness, as i see it, does not preclude self defense or other action taken against those who are a danger. It recognizes that circumstances can put us all in situations where we can be responsible for horrible outcomes. Folks who do not recognize and repent their errors are not entitled to go their way. They can be restrained while here. The ultimate restraint is death.
The Amish are sincere devout folk. They are positive contributors to the commonweal. I have no difficulty including them in the group of people i believe are worth defending, with violence if need be.

Re that big tent thread, i sincerely hope you and celtic-dragon can hang with the right when it comes time to vote. That's not to say which way to vote, i hardly know what difficult choices either of you are dealing with. If you want to go lunatic fringe this time, ok. I did it when Nixon ran against McGovern. But please, both of you deal with non-directly-political differences outside the voting booth until we get politics back towards something like responsible sanity. You both bring so much.

And where the heck is Skip?

I don't know where Skip is, maybe he had a run in with the 'Hall monitors! As for my going left, you need not worry about that, there haven't ben many Dems that I could vote for in a while. Plus, my rep is a pretty good one, though she just got started at the national level. I'll be voting for her on election day, I for one won't be sitting this one out.

what I wrote on the Jacoby column, as you refer to me in your essay (which is quite good, BTW). I said the parents can't forgive the murderer on behalf of the dead people. No one can give forgiveness on behalf of someone else. And as someone pointed out on that column (it may have been you) that's like all that apologizing Clinton was doing on behalf of the American people for slavery or something. It's less than meaningless; it's patronizing. He, of course, did it to make himself simply look good; I don't ascribe Clintonesque motives to those parents (or anyone else who's more than half human).

Now, they can certainly forgive the murdering scumbag for the pain he's directly caused them through the loss of their kids if they wish. That's up to them. It's definitely not something I'd do. I'd want his head on a pike.

Also, I stand by my statement that the only reason the Amish can thrive is because they live in a country that is tolerant, and has in place a system that safeguards their rights and priviledges, even if they won't fight for themselves.

In all honesty, I have very little respect for pacifism. But, hey, I don't like asparagus, either.

I haven't read the column, but from what I read here, I don't think I want to. How can ANYONE dare to judge how another person deals with their loss? Anger only hurts the person who is angry. I cannot even imagine the hurt, sense of loss and lack of understanding that these Amish are going through. I say "lack of understanding" because it must be very difficult for a people who try to live their lives in the image of the Lord, to understand how this terrible violence and these senseless murders violated their privacy and their lives. My heart and admiration goes out to them. I can think of nothing worse than losing a child.

....if it weren't for a people who are not Amish...then the Amish would cease to exist...and asparagus is repulsive.......

La Reina: well, my experience has generally been that my anger ends up hurting the other guy. But, hey, that's just me.

JimmyC: Yep, common sense. Both on the Amish and asparagus.

LOL

I agree that anger hurts the angry one MUCH more than the person he/she is angry with. I can only reference myself when someone wronged me in the past. My feelings of hurt and anger physically hurt ME, while the person who I was angry with was out of my life. Did that person know I was still angry at him/her? Of course not. He/she is still living his/her life, unaware of my anger at him/her.

So I let it go, forgave, and have felt so much better. It was God's power and forgiveness.

Jimmy Carter...I love asparagus...hee,hee.

The Amish, like Jews, and Christians, can not exist in many places. It is to our credit that they can exist here. Like BrianR et al, i do not find pacifism attractive. Some of the rough men who protect us with willingness to do violence may have unattractive aspects and yet they have their place. The pacifist Amish have their place at the other end of the spectrum. Who knows which will be needed next?