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Comment on:
Rational Mind
Jew-Christian-Mormon
4 Comments
Sunday, September, 03, 2006 9:46 PM
Jim
writes:
Truth Turned On Its Head
This short article shows how focusing on anti-literature can be very destructive (that’s its purpose). Here we have a person who believed in Jesus Christ and his ancient church originating in Jerusalem. This person had a strong personal experience with how good The Church of Jesus Christ today is for members, and yet arrives at, “Thanks to my wonderful Mormon neighbors, I realized there is nothing illogical or irrational that reasonable people won’t fervently believe if they are taught it early enough.”
Here’s the catch, the majority of LDS people, including me, are converts to the faith. I am Nazarene by birth and training. My grandfather was a 60+ year minister of the Nazarene faith and successfully built up churches around the country. I was a convert to the LDS church at the age of 19 (25 years ago). My wife was baptized at age 21 (we just had our 23 wedding anniversary) …many of our friends have similar stories to ours. The belief we have in the truthfulness of the teachings of this church have to do with personal testimony, not indoctrination.
Most of us tell a very similar story of finding something good and seeking more information. Then, studying what we have been taught and realizing, through a process of study and prayer, that we have found something truly beautiful and marvelously true.
Members of the church tend to be among the most educated (per capita) people in the world. I hold a Master’s of Education and I am still getting more education. We believe in being as well educated as possible. We have a “Perpetual Education Fund” to help our less economically well off members to get education and pull themselves out of poverty. (I give to this fund regularly as do many, many others.)
We are neither deceived nor confused. There is nothing superstitious going on. But there is a real religious experience so many of us have in common. We have experienced the conversion of the spirit spoken of by the people of the New Testament. We believe because of personal testimony given by the spirit as we have studied the words of The Book of Mormon. Anyone wanting to know what we know? Read The Book of Mormon, pray about it. Chances are, you’ll know what millions of others know:
1) God lives and loves us.
2) Jesus Christ is the son of God and our Savior.
3) All people who desire to do good and live according to the truth available to them, will be given a chance beyond this short day of life.
4) We don’t know everything and won’t for a very long time, but that doesn’t mean we can’t live the best we can according to the truths we do know (see the 10 commandments and it’s hard to miss).
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Sunday, September, 10, 2006 12:03 PM
Rational Mind
writes:
Yes, Jim
I have not focused on Anti-literature. I have had my neighbors and the missionaries personally testify to their faith. I go to all the events in my ward, I am invited to as a non-LDS member. I am in close contact with my LDS neighbors and have gone to General Convention in the Salt Lake City Convention Center as a guest. We are often invited to neighborhood bar-b-ques centered around "the church". My children have gone to church with their friends and their friends have come to our church. We are very involved with our neighborhood ward and society.
Notice that Jim does not refute any of the doctrines of the church, yet these are doctrines that the LDS church trys to hide from mainstream American because they know most Americans would recoil from this Pagan world view.
All 4 of Jim's final points are the doctrines of all main stream Christian churches, so why did Jim feel the need to convert?
Mormons rely almost exclusively on personal testimony and spiritual experiences. This allows them to avoid all the logical and rational internal inconsistencies of their religion. The Waco, Jones Town, 9/11 hi-jackers, Hisbullah members are all true believers. Blind faith, which Mormons are encouraged to have, is not in the best traditions of Christian thought.
Yes, please all read. Especially, "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brody. Fawn Brody was a life long member of the LDS church and a historian. She wrote this award winning, well documented history of Joseph Smith.
Listen to Jim point out all the Mormon Church does for its members - perpetual education fund etc, Yes they do a lot, but that does not mean it is true.
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Thursday, December, 07, 2006 4:12 PM
mrsfamous
writes:
A little help---
Oh honey, it's not blind faith. It's just plain old faith. Faith doesn't connote that Mormons (or anyone else) don't study things out for themselves. And it doesn't mean that Mormons (or anyone else) never have questions about their own faith and beliefs. What a misnomer that is! The definition of faith is found in Hebrews 11:1. (I am using the KJV) It is the hope for things which are not seen, but which are true. There is no tangible, scientific evidence to wholly back any religion or testimony...just faith. This life is a test and unfortunately, we don't get most of the answers until we get to the other side of the veil. Otherwise, this life wouldn't be much of a test now, would it? There is nothing that can prove anything in the spiritual realm except the Holy Spirit who can speak to anyone at anytime if they are open for it and have prepared themselves for it. Testimonies are based on personal revelation that individuals have received from the Holy Ghost. The world is not always logical to man and neither is religion, that is why our Heavenly Father gave us the Holy Ghost to help us along. Again, it is all part of the test we are all taking on this earth. Will we listen to the Spirit--which testifies of the truths God has set forth--and believe based on what it has told us rather than relying on the arm of man (logic of man, words of man) to tell us what is right and good OR will we rely completely on the arm of man and miss out? That is up to each individual.
Unfortunately, you have misunderstood some of what your neighbors have told you and what you have heard which is not uncommon. Some of your list is incorrect or lacking information. I don't think you wholly understand about the idea of being able to become a god or godess one day. Mormons do believe that, but I think you are missing some key pieces in understanding that idea completely. However, I have no idea what you are missing, so all I can say is that yes, Mormons do believe that someday, if they follow the commandments and do their best, they can become gods and godesses, joint heirs with Christ in the Kingdom of God. It is incorrect information that Mormons believe that you must be a polygamist to be a god. I am not sure where that came from. I have heard that many times, but it is simply not true...not even a little. Maybe someone told you that, but you must discard that idea because it's not true. Whoever told you may be a little confused themselves...and yes, that can happen, even to a Mormon. :) Or you may have misunderstood what someone said, which could also happen. Either way, it is not true. I am not sure why families being sealed together and spending eternity together is such a bad idea for people. What a wonderful gift! You can be with your family forever! Heavenly Father wants us to be happy here and in the eternities. He set us up to live in families here like we will in the eternities. We won't all be hangin' around strumming harps by ourselves or jumping on clouds for the rest of eternity. We will be spending our time with our family much like we do here, and with our Heavenly Father and our Saviour Jesus Christ, which will be a great added bonus. YAY!
Mormons do what is called baptism for the dead. Mormons believe that after you die you can have the choice to accept the gospel on the other side of the veil or to decline, just like here. That is in the Bible, so I'm not sure why that is a big deal breaker for people. 1 Corinthians 15:29. I don't think they understand what they are reading.
Mormons believe that the Church is the only one on the earth with all the pieces of the truth together in one place and that Heavenly Father restored it to the earth because the people were ready to have it back again. All religions have pieces of the truth, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has all the truth in one place.
It is true that Mormons believe that all people will have to accept the Gospel at some point in time...not the Church, the Gospel. They are ultimately related, but they are different things...so don't get that confused. But if a person chooses not to accept the Gospel, they aren't going to hell. There is not a firey pit they will be sent to. Heavenly Father doesn't deal in firey pits and devils with horns that poke you with forks. EVERYONE will end up where they are most happy and comfortable by choice. That's good news! We all end up where we choose to go and we will all be happy and comfortable where we are. YAY again! I don't know if that will help any but I certainly hope it does. PS---it's General Conference, not General Convention. There is quite a difference between a convention and a conference.
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Sunday, September, 16, 2007 1:31 AM
Big G
writes:
Hope your having a good time in Utah!
"Below is a partial list of Mormon doctrines that contradict traditional Christianity."
Actually, below is and interpretation of what Mormons believe.
Men can becomes gods of their own planet if they perform enough of the right “sacraments”. What on earth are you talking about?
"Without polygamy, men can’t become gods." never heard or read anything like this except from those ignorant of my faith.
"god has a physical body and has sex with his wife in heaven to produce spirit babies."Wow, tell me where you found this, that would be interesting? By the way, if God is the Father of our spirits, how does your denomination explain our existance? Im asking because I dont know what denomination you are, and I dont know if all denominations agree on the subject.
"Families are sealed together and spend eternity together." There are no gaurentees.
"Dead people can be baptized in the Mormon Church and have a chance to enter the Mormon Church after they are dead." The dead arent baptised, someone is baptised on behalf of that dead person. The dead person has agency to accept or reject the baptism.
"All Christian history, after the original 12 apostles died, has been false and the LDS church is the one true Christian church." Not all, there is truth mixed with the philosophies of men. As Christ is not the author of confusion, its apparent with so many denominations that their is confusion.
"No one can be saved unless they are LDS." I don't believe that.
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