The "Cost" of Today's "win"

Very interesting...he made a lot of sense.

Well, it seems our democracy still works...if people scream they will be heard...the thing is, let's see if it was the right thing to be screaming about...

I wish Ted Kennedy would be voted out of office...that guy makes everybody nervous on our side...he should have never been where he is...unfortunately the Left can get away with murder (literally) and wind up Senator for 30 years to boot!

So now we have nothing. Amnesty by default. This was not a win by the people protesting their government, it was "mob rule" by a small group of bloggers and radio talk show hosts who now have the mouthpiece to hold their party hostage.

The silent majority, those who don't blog or listen to talk radio, lost. America lost. It is clear that our Representatives cannot begin to solve this very urgent issue.

The Queen will be the beneficiary.

I was talking to two Democrat friends a couple of days ago. They both said that they had been thinking about voting for Giuliani if he were the nominee. They said that after this immigration debacle, they will never consider voting for a Republican again, not even for Giuliani. They added that clearly Republican presidents have no power at all, since their own party attacks them.

I don't claim to be a Republican or a Conservative. After 9/11, I did flirt with the idea of joining the GOP...I found I had so much more in common with them than any of my Liberal friends and family and I liked their moral attitude.

For a time, it was like being in a foreign country and finding a whole group of people who spoke English and I enjoyed the intellectual exchange. It was easy as long as we were united in defending our president and the GOP from the "evil and powerful" MSM.

Then the Mier's borking began and the ugliness of people like Brian started to take over. For months, I did as you did...I tried to warn them that we cannot attack our own and continue to win elections.

Eventually, I saw no difference between their bullying and the extreme Left...they even used the same buzz line cards the Left uses...and since I've never walked locked step with anyone, I resented those people trying to get me to think and believe EXACTLY as they do.

Sandra, as an Independent, I can tell you that I would not be voting GOP if it were not for the WOT. Yes, even though the GOP is the only viable party that will even pretend to be Pro-life / Christian...the "Bush and the GOP has done nothing for you in 30 years" of the Right Bush haters says to the C/PL Independent..."you've got nothing to lose by letting the Dems have a crack at governing."

Michael Medved, the only talk show host I can stand to listen to now days, said that the party that can control their nutters will be the party that wins.

This illegal immigration issue has shown that the GOP is controlled by their media and a bunch of people whose denials of racism is sounding awfully hollow.

Which comes back to a question I had asked a long time ago.

Just who is benefiting from all this "disagreement"? Is the IIAs getting the 12 million illegals deported? (By the way, I never did the math but according to one of the bloggers who did, it would take 100 years at a rate of using government resources to deport 10,000 a day!) Are they bringing in the "majority of Americans" who agree with them (but for some reason won't vote for Tancredo) or driving people away?

These people have bullied the "base" into staying home, driven the Independent away, and are now making sure that a voting block that will rival the Democratic Black block will turn away from their "natural" conservative tendency--and vote Liberal.

Again, I ask...who does the absolutes "serve"...and if you answer..."themselves...they are being true to themselves"...then ask yourself if serving oneself...putting one's principles above others...above one's nation...is the mantra of the Right...or the Left.

Sanity, on my blog I've said that the Republicans, including people like Kyl, McCain, and some other heroic figures should back away completely from immigration -- not even discussing the subject, let alone some cockamamy compromise that won't take place. I've also said that I won't write about the subject again on my blog, until after the election of 2008. Republicans should treat this subject as if it's radioactive. I've asked that if Bush and Congress can find a way to STOP building the Berlin Wall, they should do so. It is a total foreign policy disaster.

I think the best thing to do is keep with the status quo, which means to do nothing. In fact, nothing is better than what the absolutists deserve.

I believe there may be some "de facto" resolutions, to a degree, of the issue without any further legislation.

I'm returning to writing about candidates, some of whom are excellent. I believe Tancredo (ugh) and Duncan Hunter serve no more useful purpose by being in the race. They had one-issue and now it has disappeared.

Your own position in all this has been exemplary, along with Sandra, Sheila, Bruce, and a few others. Hold your head high.

We may end up with something like a modern Underground Railway for immigrants. I don't even use the term "illegal" anymore. How do you tell the difference?

I know what Senator Kyl, a superb gentleman, should tell his callers . . . but you can't use the word on TH.

steve maloney
ambridge, pa

I hear you--and I'm pretty tired of the whole subject myself.

You think the rest of America is too and will move on, so that in 2008, we will be discussing issues that won't tear us apart?

Steve,

I disagree that the GOP (especially true leaders like McCain and Giuliani) should walk away from the immigration issue. The current immigration system is badly broken--and it is a significant issue worth addressing in a comprehensive, rational and humane way. Doing nothing will only make things worse. Moreover, as Sanity and others have correctly noted, if the Democrats take the WH then we will get immigration "reform" except that it will be crafted by Clinton, Pelosi, Reid and Kennedy with NO input from Republicans (and the absolutists will rue the day that they killed the current bill).

Furthermore, surrendering on this issue to the anti-immigrant, xenophobic, isolationist minority of the GOP would only serve to further empower and embolden them. They must be marginalized, rather than be allowed to metastasize.

Bruce Sherman
Oakland, Oregon

Sorry I have to disagree, as someone once wrote a second marraige is a triumph of hope over experience. And that is exactly what you are putting forward.

Another bill will be similar to this last one. So why will the extreme right do any different this next time around?

If you want to put out a fire starve it of fuel.

Another bill will just push them to new heights of destructive behaviour and make the GOP even more unelectable than it is now.

Doing nothing may not be the "right" thing to do for immigration but it is the only thing we can do to preserve the GOP, and therefore the War on Terror, the courts and the tax cuts.

Bruce, I think the immigration fiasco has taken the wind out of a lot of sails, including mine and Sanity's. The current system is broken, and it does threaten national security -- a great deal. Tom Clancy had a book (four/five years ago?) about terrorists making a deal with Mexican drug dealers, coming across the border, getting weapons from druggies, and then attacking simultaneously four shopping centers (Richmond, VA & Provo, Utah were two of them. Books don't scare me, but that one did. A hundred-plus people were killed at three of the centers, and there was a shoot out at the fourth where the terrorists showed up a day late and a machine gun short.

The Democrats are all going around with smiles on their faces. They've made the Republicans looks like the bad guys once again. What exactly have the Democrats lost on this one? They don't give a hoot about the Republican "base." I hear the Hugh Hewitt types talking about the need for this amendment (constant machine gun fire at the border?), and I think, "There aren't going to be any amendments."

I am against building the fence. TH had several blog pieces about the Berlin Wall 20th anniversary. I think they did them with a straight face. The "Berlin Wall South" sends a message to Central and South America that I don't even want to think about. Somehow little things like that aren't going to worry Pasadena Phil.

Linda Chavez's response is almost scary. As I said, if we lose Linda, exactly what Hispanics are we going to retain (out of the 40 million legal ones here now)?

This is why I see this as an absolute, utter disaster. For many years, I've been quoting Wm. F. Buckley's line about, "Self-control is the most exhilarating of pleasures." The Base had no self-control. They never got a thought to the consequences of their actions. They put the country in great danger, and most of them are happy as clams.

Now you're scaring me...

Tell me that you REALLY believe that Bush and the GOP can make the IIAs happy?

They want 2 things...let's be frank here... they want a Berlin type wall and 12 million deported period. Anything less is "amnesty".

The cost of doing this is not only not conservative but in time of war, it's plain irresponsible.

I'm with Steve and Jim...I don't want to touch this issue for a long time...and I doubt if any of the politicians will want to either.

excellent points...people have lost friends over this issue...it is a "fire" that has to starve itself out.

Have you been reading some of the links from the Archoress? I was glad to read of others who also found the absolutes attack upon Bush and the GOP unacceptable.

The really scary part is that we could lose the WOT, the courts, and this great economy...and the absolutes will still be demanding 12 million deported and a Berlin type wall done yesterday.