Apples & Oranges

Well, I see you finally got it posted good for you.

Good essay. I find this whole Imus thing very interesting. Of course, Imus was his usual obnoxious and idiotic self, arrogantly making such an offensive comment. That's a given.

What I find absolutely delightful is the high theater and comedy of the rest of the show.

Al Sharpton, that pompous race p!^p, criticizing anybody just elecits howls of laughter.

The fact that the libs have been put in the position of either criticizing one of their own, or letting such an obnoxious statement pass.

The hypocrisy so clearly highlighted by the fact that they're still giving him a pass. Here are a couple of editorials:

LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rice11apr11,0,5538321.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

Washington Compost
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041001310.html

Both wag their fingers at Imus, but say he should be given a second chance.

Can you imagine them doing that if Sean Hannity had made those comments?

This is just

to finish:

This is just TOO FUNNY!

It is funny watching these liberals trying their best to walk the tight rope here. They know that the Crypt Keeper stepped in it up to his knees here, but they are having the hardest time calling him to account for his words. I also think that it is interesting that the media is not playing the most racially charged language from that segment where Keeper called the Scarlet Knights "jigaboo's"; as bad as the "ho" comments were, that is far worse IMO.

It is also starting to look like the media in all aspects are circling the wagons around Imus; you read some of the Townhall articles saying how Imus shouldbee given a break. Then last night on Hannity and Colmes I heard Alan Colmes acting as though this is the first time that a media person has been brought down by a situation like this and wondering who else would be a target. What i don't remember was any outrage when the media vultures and pressure groups went after Rush Limbaugh on ESPN, or when the pressure groups went after Billy Packer for sayng that Allen Iverson was a "tough little monkey" because of the way he bounced back from taking so many hits on the hoops floor. But now that one of them is in trouble, it's katie bar the door time: they are now eathly afraid that what they say could have some consequences. What a group of hypocrites!

Your defense of hip-hop on the grounds that it is only entertainment falls short; that's exactly what Imus' program is, too. Sorry but there just isn't a distinction to be made there.

I find it amusing that the culture is continually debased by pushing the envelope; then when the inevitable consequences manifest, the cries that this somehow violates the bounds of the very decorum that has been destroyed come howling forth.

Rap music has popularized the very terms that Imus is being demonized for. That is perfect pitch irony.

If you are going to be outraged by this language, at least be consistent instead of throwing up a racial smokescreen for one side while castigating the other who's only distinction is skin color, not language.

Racial reconciliation cannot happen so long as one side insists on differing rules for itself. When did it become a defensible point of racial pride to refer to women by these derougatory terms? If it hasn't, your prior silence speaks volumes.

Please reread my post here. I am not saying that what rappers say is right, or that it is to be excused as simply entertainment. What I am trying to get across is that comparing Don Imus and his words to Snoop Dogg lyrics is not exactly a valid comparison.

I am saying that rap music falls into the arts and entertainment category, where Imus and his show does not. I have listened to lots of rap music in my day, and still do from time to time and I do so knowing that what i am hearing is not at all real; it is a peformance put on a CD by a performer. Don Imus is something else entirely; he is a radio host that does much more than his alleged comedic schtick. This is a man that has done countless interviews with leading opinion makers, journalists, and politicians. He has much more gravity than any rapper out there because of his position and the image he has tried to cultivate over the years. His words were not rehearsed and laid down on a recording, they were said in moment when he tought it was okay to disparage a group of college atheletes simply on the grounds of racial characteristics and background. He did not rap about fictional bitches and hoes, but he calously attacked a group of innocent college students because he and his staff thought it was funny.

Further, where do you get the idea that I am not outraged by the use of racial epithets and misogynistic language in rap songs, or in other forms of entertainment? I long ago decided that such music would not have a place in my home because I did not want my children hearing it and being influenced by it. While I occasionallly will listen to some of my old school hip hop, and I enjoy much of Jay Z'z work rap musci for the most part doesn't get a lot of play in my household.

Also, I do not see myself as being inconsistent on this issue. I simply believe that being a rapper is much like being an actor...you play a role and leave it at the studio. I believe that Don Imus allowed something that was held deeply within him to slip out, and now he has payed a very steep, and well deserved, penalty for it. I am not angry at Don Imus because of his skin color, i am angry at his words and how thoughtless and cruel they were. Race plays no part in it for me...if Mike Wilbon or Jason Whitlock had said it my feelings would have been the same.

Also, I am not trying to have different rules for different people. I am trying to point out that the standards are different between talk radio hists and rappers, who are entertainers. Nowhere have i stated or implied that using racial slurs or misogynistic language was defensible, and I have not tried to defend it. Nothing in my post was a defense of what rappers say, but was an explanation of the difference i see in this issue of rap lyrics versus Don Imus's comments.

Finally, racial reconciliation is not going to be some overarching event. Racial reconciliation will come in the individual hearts of men and women as they begin to see each other as equals and worthy of respect and dignity. It will certainly jot come if we continue to, as you have here, read racial motivation into every word and action that you deem to be unacceptable. I respect your opinions, and welcome your comments but on this issue i think you have let your assumptions take the lead.As for my prior silence speaking volumes, it does no such thing. My prior silence is simply based on the fact that I do ot personally feel the need to be a culture warrior. I cannot control or change the culture around me, so i have chosen to concentrate on creating a positive, nurturing,,and healthy culture in mmy own home. If I can do that, then send good, strong, well grounded children out into the world that is my contribution to the culture war. My sitting around complaining about rap lyrics all the time is not going to be much help. Besids which, O'Reilly pretty much has a lock on that doesn't he?

You're kidding! He said "jigaboos" too? How come that didn't get any publicity?

Just when I think liberal hypocrisy has hit its bounds, I'm proven wrong again.

Your examples of the crucufied are great. I'll add a couple: Fuzzy Zeller (Zoeller?) re Tiger Woods. Jimmy the Greek with something to the effect that black athletes have high hips or whatever.

Both crucified and their careers destroyed.

Aaaah, the sanctimony of the MSM!

That is why I mentioned it, because the MSM is not telling the entire story even as it tries to disassociate from Imus. Even in this instance they hide the most reprehensible thing that he said, IMO. The "ho" comments were bad enough, but that last comment is what ripped it for me.

And if you really want to see how hypocritical CBS is being here, check out this link: http://www.papillionartpalace.com/cbsfired.htm.
This will put the Jimmy the Greek comments in perspective, give you an example of their hypcrisy in how they treated Dan rather for years, and show how laughable their "outrage" over what Imus said really is.

I don't see where you have made the case that it depends on who calls who what. I agree with Scottie in that I see no difference between anyone calling someone else a certain word or phrase. If it is bad it is bad.
Don Imus has paid a price for stupidly exercising his free speech rights. But not many people are calling for the firing of those other " artists " who say the same things.
I believe that we are all of the human race created in God's image. Some of us have different features for whatever reasons.

A word is a word, and the rules for using it should be consistent, pigmentation notwithstanding.

I thank you for your thoughtful reply. We disagree once again, but you still have my unabashed respect. Another example of two blind men describing an elephant I think.

I think you are missing my point here; maybe I'm just not ststing it clearly enough.

I am not trying to say that it is alright to call anyone names or use any type of slur with no repercussions. What i am trying to say is that something said by a performer playing a role is not the same as a talking head taking potshots at someone. I listen to rap music and view it the same way that I see movie actors; you say what the script says and you have to be convincing. When Al Pacino cursed God in "The Devil's Advocate" he was convincing, but I knew he was only playing a role; when I hear Snoop Dgg say "We don;t love them hoe's" I get that same sense. I am not arguing that he was right to say it, or that anyone should say it for that matter, but that it is in a certain artistic context. You may not like the art fom, but that is what it is...what Imus said was not said in that type of context.

Thanks for the comments and debate, and I hope that I have been able to clearly express what I am trying to say.

If you paint the Mona Lisa with feces, it will still stink. Is it really artistry to paint vulgar misogynistic pictures with these words?

Your position here doesn't differ significantly from the libs defending the "p1ss christ" exhibit. You're entitiled to your take on the matter, but you've got some serious problems with your "product" if you ask me.

First and foremost, it is not "my" product. Second, I am not trying to defend anything that anyone says in a rap song. If you closely read my posts, how many times have I plainly stated that I do not support this type of languauge from anyone, or condone it for whatever reasons? I don't think I can be more clear than that, but you seem to be locked into seeing whatever I say here as a defense of this language. Case in point, in the original post I said that much of what passes for hip hop nowadays has no value and that calling people n*gga, b*tch, and hoe is not the road we want to be traveling. And in my post to you and JDW i stated that I do not think it is okay to say things like that by anyone...what part of that am i not making clear?

And maybe I am adopting the same arguement as the liberals have used in relation to art; mainly because it is a in my view a valid point to argue. I did not see the artistic value in "P*ss Christ", but that does not make it less of an art piece to someone else. Just because I don't like it doesn't make it art; heck, I am not the biggest fan of country music but that does not make Johnny Cash any less of an artist. Art, much like beauty, is usually in the eye of the beholder.

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