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Comment on: Peppermints Place

Torturing our Soldiers

298 Comments
Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 5:38 PM BrianR writes:

Powerful stuff, Pepp

Yeah, it's an outrage. Aside from my current essay, I wrote a "prequel" companion piece, you might say, entitled "The 12-Cent Bullet Solution" in which I touch on some of the same issues, i.e. the treatment of the detainess by us -- irregulars not covered by the Geneva Conventions -- and how it makes no sense at all. In any other war, they'd be simply shot in the field.

Those who make the argument that if we mistreat the detainees it will lead to mistreatment of captive Americans live with their heads up.... well, in the sand, because it simply doesn't get any worse.

Great piece, Pepp. Your outrage is justified.


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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 5:41 PM wil writes:

Powerful piece

I absolutely agree. No one gets a pass on something like this. "According to residents of Yusufiya and a relative of one of the victims, the soldiers were beheaded. An Iraqi official said they had been brutally tortured before their death, but provided no further details" Furthermore, anyone who witnesses something like this and does not either try to stop it or try to contact someone stronger to stop it shares some measure of guilt with the perpetrator.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 5:51 PM Psalm23 writes:

The International Language of...

The problem with the America's ROE isn't that it is too violent or brutal, but that it isn't violent or brutal enough. These animals understand but one thing, POWER! A constant demonstration of true military power, and the will to use it, is worth more than any diplomatic, "PC", feel good approach. It is better to be feared by one's enemies than to be respected by one's friends. The rest of the world can then go pound sand.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 7:00 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian, Wil, Psalm23

Thanks to all for stopping by.

Brian, your article was the reason I wrote this. All the debate going on about whether we should use torture inspired me to write this which is a subject I become intensely angry about.

Wil, that is an interesting angle that those witnessing this brutality should be held accountable too.

Psalm 23, you are so right, all these brutes understand it absolute power and we're not showing it. We behave like little kids being backed down by strict parents. We need to back these people down with our own show of power and let them know we won't tolerate this. The ROE has just emboldened them.

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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:02 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

It's a one-way conversation

There is no debate about this among our enemies. They're just getting a free pass until we come around to taking this serious. I've come around to believing that all captured terrorists should be summarily executed according to the Geneva Convention unless we have very good reason to believe that they have valuable information. That way, if caught, there is virtual certainty that they will be subjected to harsh interrogation techniques. I yield the floor to my esteemed colleague Bradford1 from the great liberal state of Fan-t-Asia
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:25 PM Peppermint writes:

PPHil

Right, we'll see if ole Brad gets a word in.

The military court just ruled today on some technicality about two of the Gitmo detainees. So those two get a reprieve for right now. It's ridiculous how many rights they have. And, our guys get beheaded.

I'm too tired to put the details up about those detainees. Saw it on Fox tonight.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:31 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Pep

I even saw the exasperated prosecuting JAG venting about the crazy rules. The terrorist got off, as I understand it, because of a technicality: they didn't prove he was an ILLEGAL combatant. I mean, they caught him throwing the grenade that killed one soldier and seriously injured a few others and he wasn't wearing a uniform. He was too young to know what he was doing? Crazy. I repeat: see terrorist, kill terrorist. Only capture those we need to torture for important intelligence.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:37 PM davecatbone writes:

The Level of Barbarity Required

To win a war, is one notch over the level your opponent brings. President Bush has tried to please too many enemies who will never be pleased. We can't win unless we fight with the gloves off. Media out. Fight to win. Lincoln had Grant and Sherman, and understood this. Very good post, but tough. Thanks Pep.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:38 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

That's how it was. Yeah, now I remember. Stupidity.
And, the other guy was bin Laden's driver who said he wasn't with AQ, just a hired driver. Yeah,right.

This is what makes them laugh at us. They use our own system to hang us. It just infuriates me and I agree, just shoot them on the battleground and be done with it.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:41 PM Goshawk writes:

Your outrage is justified Pep!

These barbaric animals thrive on murder and torture. In fact they take great bride and joy in slow torture before killing. If it were up to me I would fight fire with fire! I would use tortures on them that would put extreme fear of being captured into them.

The Liberal Moonbats would say..That makes me no better than them! As if I care what a damn traitorous Liberal thinks!
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:43 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Pep

I hope Bradford is getting all of this. Could be good for 1 (one) aneurism.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:43 PM Peppermint writes:

Davidcatbone

Yes, that is the problem from the beginning, not fighting this all out. If we had done that this war would be over. There's nobody who can beat our military strength and resources, but we fight with kid gloves on. We'll never win that way.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:44 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

LOL! At least one! Maybe a two-fer, a heart attack to boot.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:48 PM Peppermint writes:

Goshawk

Yeah, it just boils me that the jihadists can do anything they want to our soldiers and we have to go by the GC. Somehow this makes no sense to me.

I don't care what the libs think either. They will still be begging for "niceness" while they are about to lose their heads.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:51 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Overwhelming force

Is considered immoral. Disproportionate response. Morality (if not good manners) requires using just enough force to barely win - with any luck.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 10:55 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

Yes, that's what Israel gets told all the time. But, if more people listened to purplegimp's stories about the amount of rockets and bombs lobbed at them daily, maybe they would see why Israel gets fed up when they go after them.

She can tell the stories of what actually goes on there.
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Tuesday, June, 05, 2007 11:59 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

You are exactly right.

Of course.

I, for one, have not heard about these Soldiers.

Just remember these Soldiers everytime some lib brings up the subject of what others may "think" of Us when We decide to do something.

When you act according to what your enemies might "think" of you, you become at the mercy of said enemies.

When you act according to what beasts might "think" of you, you become at the mercy of said beasts.

Is it any wonder why libs HATE what Conservatives think of them?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 12:23 AM Purplegimp writes:

Restraint

We are not only urged constantly to use restraint,(a military strategy?)by The US and EU, it is expected that we do practice restraint.Then, look what happens. The hizzies rebuild on our northern border right under that watchful eyes of the Lebanese Army and the international force that were supposed to prevent that very thing. Then, we pamper the poor misunderstood so called palestinians in Gaza while they shoot kassam rockets at a purely civilian town. Then we are told that Olmert is going to release millions in frozen funds to the PLO in the hope that they will somehow use the money for the good of the population there. Looks like the PLO are now the "good terrorists" My bet is that will use the money to either rearm or most of it will go straight into private Swiss bank accounts. Abu Mazzen is no better than Arafart was.PLO and Hamas might be at odds with each other now, but neither of then has ever accepted Israel's right to exist.
It drives me wild when Hamas announces that they will agree to stop firing kassams if we stop our aggression. Um, excuse me? Aggression? Leaving the whole Gaza strip to them is aggression? Who rewrote the dictionary? Must have been the same genius who redefined abuse as torture.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:30 AM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

There is also no debate about who has the high ground. Good information Pepp. I saw the thread where B-Rad used hyperbole to you. No, this has little in common with panty hose.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:33 AM xpressit writes:

Jimmy,

your right: like the phsy-ops. But they are terrorists by nature, yet we are called or labled as such.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:18 AM Peppermint writes:

JimmyCarter

Your post is exactly the reason I posted this article. You had not heard about these soldiers, probably like a lot of other Americans or lots of people around the world. Because when our soldiers get tortured there is no outcry about them being tortured. It's not BIG news like Abu Ghraib or Gitmo which the International community is always screaming about. This is what infuriates me.

Here we have cases of "real" torture but no mention made of it. No outrage. No months on end of it being televised. No Dick Durbin yelling about the torture.
He only notices panties on heads. He doesn't seem to care about our headless soldiers. Or any politician for that matter. Then we have John Edwards, who thinks the war on terror is a "bumper sticker", nothing real.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:23 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

You described exactly what I had hoped you would. Israel is supposed to "restrain" itself from attacking these poor terrorists. Mostly what we hear on the MSM is the "brutality" of the Israelis when they strike Gaza or as in the Lebanon case, those poor Hizzies getting hit so bad. We don't hear about all the rockets that get launched over to Israel.

Oh, the PLO will probably use the money to rearm for attacks on you guys. No doubt in my mind. What a big joke it all is.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:25 AM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

You're exactly right. We take the high ground but get criticized for it anyway. It makes me sick, especially when I read these things about our soldiers. None of the so called torture has any relation to what happens to our soldiers. At least the prisoners kept their heads and the panty hose were removed.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:27 AM Peppermint writes:

To all`

I forgot to add an excerpt in the first story of the two soldiers that after they were tortured and killed, their bodies were then booby trapped so that when their brothers came to get them, they had to remove the booby traps first before the could gather them up and send them back home. Another disgusting practice by the terrorists.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:33 AM Paulie writes:

ROE

I have posted on more than one thread about our ridiculous "rules of engagement".

This is the kind of article that, after you read it, you almost wish you hadn't.

What the he1* is wrong with GWB? You decide that we need to go to war, then GO TO WAR.

Get the hl1 out of the way and let the generals do what they are trained to do. No reporters unless they're censored (yes, I said "censored")

Prosecute any leaks; take off the gloves.

Get back to us when you're all done, and thank you for you service.

Pep, thanks for the wakeup...I think.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 7:46 AM The Crawfish writes:

abide by Geneva, that's it

If they ain't wearing a uniform and aren't under proper military command and control, then shoot 'em.

The court case involving Gitmo...obviously the justices didn't read what the Geneva Accords define as a lawful combattant.

ROE. If it's Islamic, it needs to be dead.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 8:59 AM JohnnyReb writes:

Torturing Our Soldiers

Great essay, Peppermint !!!!!

And to the other bloggers here -- Right On !
The ROEs NEED TO BE CHANGED !

I suggest we start by carpet bombing Sadr City,
then declare the whole D*am country of Iraq a Free Fire Zone !
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 9:53 AM Sangrun writes:

Possum patrol

In the Pacific during WW2 our men had to go over the battle field and put a bullet in the head of each Japanese soldier laying dead or alive after a battle. They never knew if one would suddenly sit up and lob a grenade acting as if they were dead hence the term Possum patrol. The Japanese tortured allied soldiers and tortured non-combatants as well.

We would do well to revisit history and fight these Islamofacists as we had to fight the fanatical Japanese who had a similar skewed set of moral values towards their enemies and outsiders. It being 2007 I highly doubt it will happen until they are on each of our doorsteps and then we may still not get it.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 10:16 AM nanc writes:

OUR ENEMIES

never expect u.s. to fight on their terms.

so much for conventional warfare.

good read, peppermint.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 11:05 AM Bradford. writes:

Pepp

You say America should be held to a higher standard.

"If it's Islamic, it needs to be dead" --That kind of higher standard?

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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 11:06 AM Bradford. writes:

btw

I don't know what the ROE are in Iraq. Does anyone know, exactly, where to find that info.?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 11:19 AM Bradford. writes:

Pepp -

"Is it not time that we and the rest of the world hold terrorists and Al Qaeda accountable and insist that they be held to some standard?"

erm, we are. There are military tribunals at Guatanamo, scores of terrorists in jail.

I don't understand your complaint; do you expect Al Qaeda to play by the rules? They won't. That's why they are the enemy. That's why the rule of law is impotant, and that's one of the elements of civilized behavior we are, supposedly, fighting to defend.

Some people (Psalm 23, Crawfish etc) just don't seem to understand that. They want us to abandon all of our values and out-terrorist the terrorists.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 11:23 AM Bradford. writes:

JohnnyReb

"I suggest we start by carpet bombing Sadr City,
then declare the whole D*am country of Iraq a Free Fire Zone !"

Yeah, that'll work! Hey, let's nuke Baghdad, Teheran, and Damascus while we're at it. He77, let's jes' kill all those doggone Mooslims!!! Yee haw!!!! Ain't Amerca grand!
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 12:16 PM Hard Thought writes:

Bradford1

The Geneva Conventions only apply to signatories. To voluntarily place yourself under these restrictions and give rights to people who are clearly disqualified from receiving them under Article IV is ludicrous.

You can look for info on the ROE at any DoD site and any Division site that has deployed troops.

BTW, we don't need to kill them all, just all of the ones that try to kill us. Then make the rest of them very afraid of swift and sure retaliation.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 12:29 PM Bradford. writes:

Hard Thought

Thanks.

Ok, in 1999, the Marine Corps Close Combat Manual described these ROE in theater. Do the Army have different rules? Are these 1999 rules still in effect.

* Level 1: Compliant (Cooperative). The subject responds and complies to verbal commands. Close combat techniques do not apply.

* Level 2: Resistant (Passive). The subject resists verbal commands but complies immediately to any contact controls. Close combat techniques do not apply.

* Level 3: Resistant (Active). The subject initially demonstrates physical resistance. Use compliance techniques to control the situation. Level three incorporates close combat techniques to physically force a subject to comply. Techniques include: Come-along holds, Soft-handed stunning blows, Pain compliance through the use of joint manipulation and the use of pressure points.

* Level 4: Assaultive (Bodily Harm). The subject may physically attack, but does not use a weapon. Use defensive tactics to neutralize the threat. Defensive tactics include: Blocks, Strikes, Kicks, Enhanced pain compliance procedures, Impact weapon blocks and blows.

* Level 5: Assaultive (Lethal Force). The subject usually has a weapon and will either kill or injure someone if he is not stopped immediately and brought under control. The subject must be controlled by the use of deadly force with or without a firearm or weapon.

My question is: those of you who think these ROE too restrictive, how should they be changed? Everything I'm reading seems to indicate the military themselves think the ROE are fine.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 12:40 PM Bradford. writes:

HT

John Yoo, legal architect of the Bush approach to these issues in regard to the GWOT has written:

"There are pros and cons about the policy decision whether to follow the Geneva Conventions in a war where they do not legally apply. Among the pros might be benefits for America's image, its ability to argue in future conflicts that the Conventions should be followed, and training soldiers to follow only the Geneva standards. Among the cons might be greater security and safety for our troops who capture and detain al Qaeda operatives and the ability to gather more actionable intelligence swiftly."

("The Devil's Advocate: An Interview with John Yoo" in _Guernica; A Magazine of Art & Politics_, December 2005)
http://www.guernicamag.com/interviews/102/the_devils_advocate/


That's as succinct an explanation of the different sides of the issue as I've seen.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 12:51 PM BrianR writes:

Brad

First of all, the most important thing in any war is to win. If you don't plan to win, don't go to war.

If you follow all the nice rules, play "fair", have the world approving your conduct, and yet LOSE.... what was the point? A lot of dead guys on your side for absolutely nothing, and dead guys don't care about rules.

As to ROE's, the ones at issue are those restricting returning fire at positions housed in places like mosques, hospitals, schools, homes, etc.

Our troops should be able to return fire to wherever it comes from. In WW2, we destroyed the Monte Cassino Monastery, a landmark in Italy, because it housed a Nazi artillery OP.


As to the ROEs you posted, they're incomplete as to meeting possible conditions. Real case: some Marines overran a position a couple years ago, and on entering the building found several wounded Iraqis on the floor covered in blankets. One of the Iraqis started moving around suspiciously enough to one Marine that he plugged the guy. As it turned out, the Iraqi had a grenade, so the Marine was cleared after an investigation. But he shot the guy without waiting for a confirmation for your Level 4. Things happen very fast in combat; you can't wait around and think about things, to see how they MAY turn out. If he'd waited for your L4 condition to be totally clear, there would have been in jured or dead Americans in that building. And sometimes, an unarmed Iraqi may get killed in those conditions by accident. Tough. War's a dangerous business, and sometimes innocents do get killed. We killed thousands in the air raids on Dresden, Tokyo, Berlin, etc.



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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 1:15 PM none06789 writes:

Peppermint

Did I give you a great idea or what? Nice job!!!
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 1:24 PM none06789 writes:

ROE

Listen dudes and dudecees, the best ROE's that I ever came across were used in WWII:

Rule 1: Kill Japs.
Rule 2: Kill Germans.

Any questions?

My ROE in the war in Jihadistan would change to:

Rule 1 You shoot at us...we kill you. Man, women or child.
Rule 2: Use a Mosque for cover? The Mosque gets destroyed.
Rule 3: The hell with the Geneva Convention.
Rule 4: In all other combat situations, see rules 1 and rule 2.
Rule 5. Combat is not fought by lawyers and desk jockeys. It's kill or be killed. There's no time to think. Either the enemy dies or you die...now which is it going to be?



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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 1:50 PM xpressit writes:

muddied up waters

Brian already wrote somewhere the philosophy that our rules somehow affect their conduct is sort of .... (what is the word?) The GWOT enemy is international terrorism, and degrees of state sponsors. (not us, contrary to notions)I know maybe they should call a caliphate to order and refine their rules of jihad -- that'll happen. I have a pig to catch.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:01 PM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

Oh yea, the human bomb-types are very concerned with our ROE. I just knew that was the problem.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:04 PM Bradford. writes:

Brian

I understand that war is war. Kill or be killed. And that's exactly the problem we're faced with in Iraq, right? The 'war' part of the Iraq equation (understood in conventional terms) ended in May 2003. Since then we're fighting what? An insurgency? A low-level civil war? It's an unconventional, counterinsurgency war against two or three different enemies. OK, let's scrap the ROE completely and fight a scorched earth, destroy-the-village campaign as happened in Quang Tri province or the eastern front.........Do we 'win' the war? NO. We make the problem ten times worse and lose anyway.

There are smart ways to fight a counterinsurgency. The Marines had their CAP program in Vietnam which, some think, had it been given a chance, might have turned things around in the countryside. The British fought a successful campaign in Malaysia in the 50s.

But that's not what is being advocated here. What is being advocated is a gloves-off kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out approach which might make y'all FEEL good, but wouldn't work. If it did, the Israelis would have defeated the intifada years ago and the Nazis would have beaten the partisans they fought against in Russia, France etc...
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:09 PM Bradford. writes:

OK Pepp

you're right. Suicide bombers couldn't give a s**t about our ROE. The key to defeating that kind of fanaticism is to make friends with the population so they're on your side, encourage the moderates, show them that being civilized and playing by the rules is a better way. I suspect the Crawfish approach of killing them all just because they're Muslims would make the US military's job a bit harder to do. But hey, Crawfish would feel good!
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:12 PM Bradford. writes:

And could someone

point me to a copy of the ROE that Brian cited "restricting returning fire at positions housed in places like mosques, hospitals, schools, homes'? Are these the actual ROE in Iraq?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:15 PM Bradford. writes:

so-called patriot

"Rule 1 You shoot at us...we kill you. Man, women or child.
Rule 2: Use a Mosque for cover? The Mosque gets destroyed.
Rule 3: The hell with the Geneva Convention.
Rule 4: In all other combat situations, see rules 1 and rule 2.
Rule 5. Combat is not fought by lawyers and desk jockeys. It's kill or be killed. There's no time to think. Either the enemy dies or you die...now which is it going to be?"

Like I said at Brian's place the other day, this approach sure worked out well for the German's in Russia, didn't it?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:18 PM xpressit writes:

déjà vu all over again


Brad: "What is being advocated is a gloves-off kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out approach which might make y'all FEEL good, but wouldn't work. "


In case your politically correct eyes missed it, that is what the enemy is doing. Spinology of that situation does not work well either. And in case you hadn't noticed, Saudis are complaining they don't like the government there and they are worried.
Hmm, what's that tell us?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:26 PM Psalm23 writes:

"That's why the rule of law is impotant"

Brad- did you mean to type "That's why the rule of law is impotent"? As that makes much more sense. In regards to what we (the "we" used loosley here) are trying to defend is in our (again loosley) own country. What use the rule of law on the battlefield? The quibbling mob (this means you Brad) can argue to your hearts content after the battle is won. You will anyway. Also wouldn't the West be considered very humane in helping the Islamists acheive, in an expeditious manner, their goal of martyrdom?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:34 PM Hard Thought writes:

Bradford1

The Army ROE are similar, but the ROE do restrict firing back at mosques, hospitals and schools, which the enemy takes full advantage of. This is what needs to stop.

There have been no credible accounts of torture, unless redefined to mean humiliation, by our soldiers. The enemy uses torture at every opportunity, which is the point of the article.

There have been instances of criminal activity by our soldiers, but they have been identified, tried, convicted and punished or are still facing charges.

To compare the actions of the American service members to terrorists is ludicrous and moronic. We (and I was one) are neither.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:47 PM Bradford. writes:

xpressit

What does it have to with "political correctness"? It's about succeeding in our struggle with terrorism. You can't fight a conventional war against terrorists. It doesn't work.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:50 PM Bradford. writes:

I'm not

comparing the actions of our soldiers to terrorists. Those who'd wished we did torture our enemies are the ones inviting the comparison.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:52 PM The Crawfish writes:

whaddawe expect?

We're not dealing with a civilized enemy, nor are we dealing with an identifiable state enemy. This war was started over 1300 years ago by the Followers of the False Prophet when they read his supposedly holy book and it's passages that demand that all who do not convert to Islam be put to the sword, and that Islam is to dominate the earth. All believers are thus commanded. Since that's the case, they are all our enemies. They won't stop until we're all dead or they're all dead. I prefer the latter. Anybody who says that Islam prohibits such killing is the Islamic version of a RINO, since they call themselves Muslim but don't adhere by the rules of Islam. Anybody who says that Islam is a peaceful religion is a liar, which is authorized and encouraged by their holy book when dealing with Infidels.

Our people have not engaged in actual torture, but conversely have been the victims of actual torture many times. Sometimes even on video. It's high time that the civilized world said "game on!" and got down to the business of fighting this war.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:52 PM Bradford. writes:

Found this online

thought some of you might find it funny!

ROE -- Differences in the Services

The following different Rules of Engagement (ROE) for the branches of the military pretty much explain everything:


U.S. Marine Corps ROE:

1. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

2. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

3. Have a plan.

4. Have a back-up plan, because the first one probably won't work.

5. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

6. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a "4."

7. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

8. Move away from your attacker (lateral and diagonal preferred). Distance is your friend.

9. Use cover and concealment as much as possible.

10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. In ten years, nobody will remember the fight details of caliber, stance or tactics. hey will remember who lived.

13. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.


U.S. Army ROE:

1. Walk in 50 miles wearing 75-pound rucksack.

2. Locate individuals requiring killing.

3. Request permission via radio from "Higher" to perform killing.

4. Curse bitterly when mission is aborted.

5. Walk out 50 miles wearing a 70-pound rucksack while starving.


U.S. Air Force ROE:

1. Have a cocktail.

2. Adjust temperature on room air-conditioner.

3. See what's on HBO.

4. Determine what is an "engagement."

5. Request more funding from Congress with a "killer" PowerPoint presentation.

6. Wine and dine 'key' Congressmen, invite DOD and defense industry executives.

7. Receive funding, set up new command, and assemble assets.

8. Declare the assets "strategic" and never deploy them operationally.

9. Tell the Navy to send the Marines.


U.S. Navy ROE:

1. Go on a sea cruise.

2. Drink coffee.

3. Watch movie.

4. Land the Marines.


U.S. Special Forces ROE:

1. Look very cool in sunglasses.

2. Kill every living thing within view.

3. Return quickly to looking cool in latest beachwear.

4. Check hair in mirror.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:54 PM Bradford. writes:

Crawfish

the logical consequence of your position is that we engage in genocide against Muslims. Is that what you're suggesting?
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:03 PM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

I saw your post about the debate. Overall descent. But can you picture Demogagues being asked if they believe in creation or evolution? Huckabee handed it to them, I haven't seen him fired up like that. That and the yes or no only questions. The hypocracy abounded "about" the format.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:08 PM xpressit writes:

Crawfish

.. maybe it is time they understood what in a NY minute could mean.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:12 PM Bradford. writes:

U.S. Iraq Ambassador Ryan Crocker

Today:

"Sometimes I think that in the U.S. we’re looking at Iraq right now as though it were the last half of a three-reel movie. For Iraqis, it’s a five-reel movie and they’re still in the first half of it. I don’t see an end game, as it were, in sight."

Our great-grandchildren will be fighting in Iraq.

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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:15 PM xpressit writes:

Brad

Again Brad emphasizes what our enemy [is] already engaged in. Maybe you’ll be one of those that believe you will make some treaty to remunerate with it as a means to self-preservation.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:29 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Bradford says:

"The key to defeating that kind of fanaticism is to make friends with the population so they're on your side, encourage the moderates, show them that being civilized and playing by the rules is a better way."

Ok. You first. Give it a try. Bring a pouch for your head.

Any credibility you may have had was lost with that statement. Naive beyond belief. Are you even an adult? You need to take another look at the enemy and so-called "moderates". It's their problem not ours. If they don't like our solution, how about that the next time a terrorist drops his gun and runs into the crowd, they converge to tear him apart. They would if the ROE allowed troops to keep firing. These people should be dead for aiding and abetting a terrorist to get away. They are not innocent. Life is tough when so many among you are terrorists and you do nothing about it.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:35 PM Sheila writes:

Pep

Our brave soldiers have gone through h*ll to keep our country safe. It's horrible how the terrorists, like the Japanese in WWII, and the Nazis treated prisoners.

We Americans don't realize that this is the fate of not only our fighting men who fall into their hands, but we also would be treated this way by terrorists if they could get their hands on us.

If we get weak liberal leaders in complete power in this country, who will not take this war seriously, if we back down, and put our tail between our legs and come home to a democrat victory in 08, we will see more of this inhumanity.

Our brave fighting men are always faced with the brutality of evil warmongers. They are extremely brave. Many signed up after the slaughter of 9-11.

We need to focus on victory in 08, and get off of our behinds and not let the people who hate our military win in 08.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:43 PM Bradford. writes:

Well P Phil

I guess all those democratizing efforts in Iraq are for naught when anything other than a shoot-first ask-questions-later approach to foreign policy in the ME is, in your view, childish. Why bother appealing to moderate Muslims when, in your view, there's no such thing? Maybe a Crawfish-style campaign of genocide against Muslims would be more 'adult.'

Unfortunately, in Iraq, we made it our problem by invading.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 3:49 PM Bradford. writes:

Oh good grief

Sheila. You need to stop listening to all that talk radio. No one "hates the military." The military does an amazing job under horrible, difficult circumstances. Their job has been made ten times harder by the incompetence and corruption of the Bush Administration who started the Iraq war and then tried to fight it 'on the cheap' and in a way that would prove least disruptive to the country (God forbid we should stop shopping). And now we're paying for it. Anyone who counseled caution was smeared as unAmerican, or "weak."


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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:08 PM xpressit writes:

Hey Pepp

Here's an article...you might enjoy.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/06/05/graying_duo_keep_passenger_in_check/
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:12 PM Peppermint writes:

Wow,

I just got in from work and you guys have been busy. Holy smoke, what have we got, a shootout at the OK corral? LOL
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:31 PM Peppermint writes:

Paulie

Sorry for the disturbance it may have caused you. I've been reading stories like this for some time now and it sickens me. So, I know what you mean about feeling like maybe you are sorry to read it.

This is exactly what makes me so angry, that people don't know what is being done to our military folks because the MSM doesn't cover it or make anything out of it. Our pols say little about it. In facts, some of the lib pols try to call our military the bad guys, then I get really, really angry.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:33 PM Peppermint writes:

Crawfish

"If they ain't wearing a uniform and aren't under proper military command and control, then shoot 'em."

About right. They are not under the GC.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:35 PM Peppermint writes:

JohnnyReb

Welcome. I believe you are a newcomer to my blog. Hope you will come back again.

I agree with you. The ROE needs to be changed. Look how long we put up with al sadr because he and his thugs were hiding in a mosque. We should have just bombed that mosque and saved ourselves a lot of trouble.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Sangrun

"It being 2007 I highly doubt it will happen until they are on each of our doorsteps and then we may still not get it."

I fear it will come to that. And, when it does I don't think anyone, including libs, will be thinking about the ROE.

You made an excellent point about the Possum Patrol. Bradford has been arguing that we never did anything like that during WWII. Your account blows that argument right out of the water.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:49 PM Peppermint writes:

nanc

Thanks for stopping by. That's right the enemy knows we will never fight on their terms so they are always going to be one up on us from that standpoint.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:51 PM Peppermint writes:

Hardthought

Thanks for stopping by and adding your comments to the discussion. I appreciate that.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:53 PM Peppermint writes:

BrianR

You made a really good point about how war is actually fought. If you had to stop and think about the lawyer sitting on your shoulder all the time there would plenty more tortured and dead Americans.

Fight to win, exactly.

I like what Patton said and for the moment I can't recall the line. Have to look it up.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:55 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

I did find the different ROE for each branch of service pretty funny.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:56 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil and xpressit

You both made excellent points in your posts debating Bradford and I sure appreciate you all jumping in. Great debate and fun to read when I got home from the salt mines.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 5:59 PM Peppermint writes:

Sheila

Thanks for coming by. I really don't think we will get a lib POTUS. I heard some really good news on the way home about how Thompson beats all hands down everyone, including the repub front runners and any of the dims.

Frank Lund who does focus groups was talking about it on Hannity this afternoon on his radio show.
And, no Frank Lund is not a repub operative. He does analyses of how the public is receiving the debates and the candidates.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:00 PM Peppermint writes:

Oh for anyone interested

Frank Lund is going to be on Hannity tonight with the focus group results and his monitoring devices. You've probably already seen them being used. In case you're interested in this kind of thing.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:02 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

I'd have to disagree that no one hates the military. There are lots of libs who do. Just visit DU and find out for yourself. Gunny printed off a bunch of the remarks in an article one day and it would make your skin crawl at the horrible things they were saying.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:15 PM BrianR writes:

Brian, the fatal flaw in your premise

is that we can somehow "make friends" in the ME. That's the same mistake Bush makes in his war strategy, and I've criticized it on many occassions.

It ain't gonna happen! That is NOT a Western culture. They understand ONE THING -- STRENGTH.

In the Muslinh ME, you rule with an iron fist or you don't rule at all. There is no Muslim democracy in the ME for that one simple reason. Even Turkey, which ios mostly in Europe, only installed a mild form when Attaturk destroyed the imams and mullahs, and still to this day it's a military junta more than anything else.

You'll be happy to know you're actually on the same page with Bush on something.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:24 PM Peppermint writes:

Patriot

Rule 1 You shoot at us...we kill you. Man, women or child.
Rule 2: Use a Mosque for cover? The Mosque gets destroyed.
Rule 3: The hell with the Geneva Convention.
Rule 4: In all other combat situations, see rules 1 and rule 2.
Rule 5. Combat is not fought by lawyers and desk jockeys. It's kill or be killed. There's no time to think. Either the enemy dies or you die...now which is it going to be?

I like these ROE.

Also, yes, between you and BrianR I got inspired to do this essay. It's something I get really upset about. It even got one person so upset he couldn't post.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:26 PM Peppermint writes:

BrianR

You're so right about Turkey. And, they don't want Islam there. My son works with a guy from Turkey and he said that is their worst nightmare to have Islamic rule there. That's why the military rule for the most part.

Good answer to Brad.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:31 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

To all of your comments addressed to me I will just say that my article speaks for me and how I feel.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 6:38 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Bradford

I don't accept your premise about our invading Iraq created the problem. We have a responsibility to protect our national interests and that is what we did. The failed effort to bring democracy to Iraq was noble and worth a shot but we can now see that there is no time to make it work and the "country" is too tribal. The sad reality is that they just don't think like us and embrace values that we find barbaric.

They face a bleak future unless they step up willing to die for something for which they place no value: freedom. That doesn't change our duty to protect our interests, it merely changes the rules. If they insist on killing each other, we have no duty to protect them. If they choose to be sheep to the benefit of the terrorists, they don't get a free pass. The meek may inherit the world in the end, but this isn't the end. This round will go to the bold and daring - as it has throughout history. We protect our meek and treat them with respect. The terrorists use their meek as shields and threaten them into submission. They have a choice. All of their choices are unappealling. But they have a duty to act. Failing to act does not make them innocent.

You can continue to play these intellectual games in an abstract world but in the real world, we have a duty to do whatever is necessary for us to win. Losing is NOT an option. That committment will preserve civilization. Your way is just a way to die with honor into oblivion with someone writing the final history. I like my way better.

Many (and I mean millions) will die before this is over. The sooner we find the will to kill more of them than they are, the fewer will die and the sooner it will be over with.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 7:05 PM Paulie writes:

Is Brad a plant?

I mean really; can Brad be serious?

Maybe he's like a bizarro LD, or something like that.

I'm reading through all these posts once I got home and I can't for the life of me imagine anyone seriously clinging to Brad's positions.

Maybe that's why he hasn't responded for a few hours--he must be back on the crack pipe.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 7:34 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

That post you just left is quite eloquent. I am very impressed with what you said.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 7:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Paulie

ROTFLMAO! I've wondered that too! No one could be serious saying these things that Brad does. At first I thought he was a very young man, in college, for instance. But, he said not.

Then, I began to wonder at someone of greater age having these kinds of ideas, that are so unrealistic, that it couldn't possibly be true that he believes what he says.

Maybe you're right and he smokes crack. I do know that he comes across at two different personalities at times. So, maybe he is just playing some kind of game with us.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 9:56 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

"you're right. Suicide bombers couldn't give a s**t about our ROE. The key to defeating that kind of fanaticism is to make friends with the population so they're on your side, encourage the moderates, show them that being civilized and playing by the rules is a better way."

Now, this is one of the more hilarious posts you've ever written. We should make friends with the population. Our soldiers already do that. Did you realize that? Makes no difference. When it comes to blowing up our soldiers, these said same moderates don't make a peep. Just stand by as their "new friends" get decapitated.

Show that being civilized is a better way. You have got to be kidding me right? Show them? They aren't interested, Brad. They only thing these people are interested in is killing us. Got that? If not, you better start getting it.
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Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 11:44 PM ch47 jockey writes:

two hooks(ch47's) were also shot down

I am surprised that the media has tried to hide this story as well as the Al Queda torture university as well. Personally if I had a suspect who might have known where these soilders were,I would have gone to work on them with a blowtorch and a hacksaw,laws of war be d*mmed. To chose between the life of a suspected terrorist and an American soilder, it is a no brainer.
""The key to defeating that kind of fanaticism is to make friends with the population so they're on your side, encourage the moderates, show them that being civilized and playing by the rules is a better way." the problem with that is currently the average person in Iraq is more fearful of the terrorist than us and will not work against the terrorist because of fear of reprisals.Also while I was in the big sandbox Mosques were off limits as targets, period, even if the guy who just fired an RPG at you ducked into one.But that is only the take of 1 saddened and angry vet
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:07 AM willibeaux writes:

Yo Pepp, Bradford

Pepp!!I'm baaaaack and loaded for bear. Thank you for your most appropriate article on the bizzare torture and death of our fine young men. Where are MSM or Kritz or Kayo, or those so-called humanitarians, Amnesty International on this issue. Strangely silent. They whine and moan about Gitmo. What upset me the most earlier was that I thought Kristian Menchaca was a woman. I'm from the old school of vets who believe that women should not be in combat situations. I may be called a male chauvinist pig for this attitude, but I don't give a rats' rear end of what people, other than my friends, think.
Bradford: I think you are doing your best to aggravate the patriotic Americans who post on this blog with you ridicules comments. Either that or your pot soaked brain is causing you to behave irrationally. However I do encourage you to continue showing your ignorance. When I need a laugh, I can always count on most of your postings.
An ole Korean War Vet
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:17 AM Peppermint writes:

WillBeax

Thanks for coming by. I wonder too where the humanitarian groups are when it comes to things like this regarding our soldiers. The double standard that exists is outrageous and ticks me off to no end.
I don't believe the women are allowed in combat. They are allowed to do other things, but not be in combat as far as I know.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:20 AM Peppermint writes:

ch47jockey

Yes, that is another story of which you write. Just another story not reported by the MSM as you said.
Let's face it, they don't want to report the torture our soldiers get because that goes against their own agenda doesn't it? That being that only "we" torture, which is insane to begin with. They just don't want to admit that these thugs torture our military. It might inflame the public to support the war.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:24 AM davecatbone writes:

ch47jockey

That's the point of the domestic war. Liberals and their media accomplices want to lose. Period. They hate the military, they hate religion, and they hate America. Pasadena Phil had a good post about George Soros, the main money behind modern Progressive Liberalism.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:26 AM Peppermint writes:

davecat

Good point. That's one reason we're losing the war, the constant drip, drip of the media bias to turn the public against fighting the GWOT.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 6:04 AM Peppermint writes:

karennkc

I suggest you stick with your day job and keep smoking that crack and forget about writing essays.
Of course I know it's futile replying to you as you drop your guano posts all over and then fly away to the nearest moonbat cave.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 7:18 AM Dan874 writes:

ROE

The ROE doesn't cover what you can and can't shoot at. They are what they say they are:Rules Of Engagement. They define the level of force authorized to be used depending on the threat coming at you.

The Geneva convention is what has the protections for historical, religious and medical facilities.
And yes you can shoot people that are attacking from any of these places. You just have to use any and all reasonable means to protect the building.

Of course into days PC world, that means do nothing and let Mohamed build his IED or EFP in the basement of the mosque. Wouldn't want to offend him by hurting his religious building now would we.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 8:27 AM willibeaux writes:

Karennkc

Your intense hatred for President Bush and America is destroying any credibility that you may have as a legitimate poster. You desperately need professional help or you are going to end up with all kinds of ailments, physical and emotional. BTW are you by any chance part of the Cindy Sheehan school of professional morons who wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in your rear end? Or are you related to the lovely and charming Kimberly who is "admired" by the lefties for her vitriolic nonsense and who used to spread her guano all over the internet? On second thought you must be getting your inspiration to write such vitriol from the Katzenjammer Kids, Kritz Mathews and Kayo Olbermann.
An ole Korean War vet
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:32 AM Bradford. writes:

Paulie

"Maybe that's why he hasn't responded for a few hours--he must be back on the crack pipe."

Interesting to me that, when lost for a reasonable response, some people (who couldn't argue their way out of a paper bag) resort to ad hominems. They disagree with me therefore I'm on crack, a pot head, "ridiculous."

Telling.

Pepp' please reread my posts CAREFULLY. Nowhere did I say "we [the US] never did anything like that during WWII." Nowhere. You're making stuff up again.

"Show that being civilized is a better way. You have got to be kidding me right? Show them? They aren't interested, Brad. They only thing these people are interested in is killing us. Got that? If not, you better start getting it."

OK Pepp. But the soldiers disagree with you. All of their efforts are devoted to this end. Guess they're wasting their time, huh? Do you want to tell them, or should I?

Your kind of extremist talk is directly counter to what they are fighting for. Way to undermine the mission!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:39 AM Bradford. writes:

karenkc

don't bother trying to reason with some of them; slander is all they know. I just got accused of being a crack-head pot smoker because I dared disagree with them.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:44 AM Bradford. writes:

Willi



This is what a "legitimate" poster sounds like?

"I think you are doing your best to aggravate the patriotic Americans who post on this blog with you ridicules comments. Either that or your pot soaked brain is causing you to behave irrationally. However I do encourage you to continue showing your ignorance. When I need a laugh, I can always count on most of your postings.'

Maybe that ole Korean War vet needs to take a look in the mirror.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:47 AM Bradford. writes:

Listen

I'm being sincere here; I have no problem taking my argumentative lumps with you folks. We obviously disagree. But I kinda enjoy discussing this stuff with people who have a different opinion. But the problem is, a couple of you (Pepp, Willi) always resort to insult. Why? Why can't you stick to the issues and argue them on their own merits? Is it because you can't?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 11:02 AM Bradford. writes:

Pepp

A few points:

"I wonder too where the humanitarian groups are when it comes to things like this regarding our soldiers."

You mean like the United Way's various veteran's campaigns? The National Coalition for Homeless Veterans? The Veterans and Families Homecoming Initiative? The VFW Foundation? Those humanitarian groups?

"And, they don't want Islam there." Turkey is a Muslim country. They don't want RADICAL Islam there. But, I know 'they' are all the same to you.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 11:27 AM Bradford. writes:

Earth to

davecatbone.

When you're ready to come out of your paranoid, FOX-fueled bubble where "Liberals and their media accomplices want to lose" the war, because they "hate the military, they hate religion, and they hate America" and actually talk some FACTS, I'll be interested in doing so.

Gee, I wonder why Americans are sick and tired of this kind of bunker-mentality nonsense?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 11:33 AM Bradford. writes:

Karennkc

The war has been a disaster entirely of the incompetent Bush administration's making from beginning to end, but the "true believers" won't ever see that way; for them, six years of republican congressional control and control of the White House, six years when they had every opportunity to get it right, is all "the liberals" and "the media's" fault. Anyone who dared point out the obvious was mocked, insulted, and told they were traitors.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 12:26 PM The Crawfish writes:

Brad writes...

the logical consequence of your position is that we engage in genocide against Muslims. Is that what you're suggesting?

Well, since they've been engaging in genocide, as directed by their not-so-holy holy book, for over 1300 years......YES!

It really is this simple. Their religion says that they are to kill or enslave anyone who does not convert to that religion, and every single one of them is to continue this fight as long as they are alive. There are only 2 possible results. Either they kill and/or enslave all of us, or we kill all of them. What's so difficult to understand?

I don't want to be a slave, nor do I want to be dead. I don't want my wife and daughters to be subjected to their ways, where women are just one small step above slaves unless they actually are slaves.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 12:41 PM The Crawfish writes:

Brad also writes...

The war has been a disaster entirely of the incompetent Bush administration's making from beginning to end, but the "true believers" won't ever see that way

The war was a complete success, and was completed faster and with far fewer casualties than anybody thought possible. The problem has been the aftermath, and it hasn't been that bad when put in historical context.

When we destroyed Nazi Germany, it took over 7 years before West Germany was stable enough to have their first election. There was pro-Nazi violence and 'insurgencies' into the 60's.

Japan was occupied by our troops well into the 50's before their new constitution and government could stabilize. The last coup attempt of the WW2 militarist/imperialist groups was in the 70's.

It is very true that the planning for the aftermath of the war was not up to the task. The folks in charge at the time thought it was, but as the old axiom goes "Plans rarely survive the first encounter with the enemy." We're trying our best to help Iraq become a stable nation that isn't an exporter of violence and such. Considering all of the parties in play (the coalition nations, the Shiites, the Sunnis, the Kurds, Iran, Syria, the moderates, the Sadr followers, the Wahabbis, Al Quaida, etc), most of whom don't want peace unless they are entirely in charge or peace at all...I don't know if anybody can make a plan that will work well and quickly.

The one thing that I do know is that the situation would become MUCH worse (not only for the people there, but for the entire region and the world) if we were to pull out now. Our job now is to try to provide some sense of stability until the Iraqis themselves can sort things out somewhat. How long will that be? I have no idea. Do I wish it would be tomorrow, so my friends can come home? Yes!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 12:52 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

karennkc

About that map of Palestine in your 100-year-old bible. Prior to 1948, if you referenced Palestinians, you were talking about Jews. The modern definition of what constitutes a "Palestinian" is mostly the creation of Yasir Arafat and a compliant Jew-hating world.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:07 PM Bradford. writes:

Crawfish

"It really is this simple. Their religion says that they are to kill or enslave anyone who does not convert to that religion, and every single one of them is to continue this fight as long as they are alive. There are only 2 possible results. Either they kill and/or enslave all of us, or we kill all of them. What's so difficult to understand?"


Have you ever met a Muslim? A real live one, not the cartoon figure with horns and a trident you live in terror of?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:13 PM Bradford. writes:

Crawfish

"There was pro-Nazi violence and 'insurgencies' into the 60's."

Really? I must have missed all those thousands of Allied troops dying in Germany and Japan right into the 60s. I'd love to see some evidence for these "insurgencies." Your analogies hold no water. There is NO comparison between a few isolated examples of REAL 'dead-enders in postwar Japan and Germany to the tens of thousands of Iraqi 'dead-enders' Rummy and co. were assuring us would be in their "last throes" four years ago.....


"We're trying our best to help Iraq become a stable nation that isn't an exporter of violence and such."

Why bother? According to you, we should commit genocide on all Muslims. I just don't understand the startling illogic of your position. On the one hand, you advocate patience so we can help Iraq back on its feet; on the other you advocate genocide.

THAT's what's difficult to understand.

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:21 PM Bradford. writes:

Unbelievable....

Me: "The logical consequence of your position is that we engage in genocide against Muslims. Is that what you're suggesting?"

Crawfish: "Well, since they've been engaging in genocide, as directed by their not-so-holy holy book, for over 1300 years......YES!"

My brain reels.......
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:32 PM Bradford. writes:

Hey Pepp

a while back you wrote that "there's no debate about who has the high ground."

Is genocide the "high ground"?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:49 PM willibeaux writes:

Bradford

I'm sorry I accused you of having a pot soaked brain. Please accept my apology
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:50 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp, re Patton

In reviewing the posts, I see I never answered your Patton question.

He said "make the OTHER poor SOB die for HIS country!".

Good ole Georgie...



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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 1:56 PM Bradford. writes:

Apology accepted

Willi. Thank you. I just want to debate the issues......
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 3:02 PM Psalm23 writes:

Bradford 1

What solutions would you prescribe to remedy the virus that is Islamic violence?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 3:22 PM Bradford. writes:

Well,

certainly not genocide. That's absurd, and any serious person knows that that's not an option, however angry we get at the terrorism and violence in the ME.

Many people on the right suggest that the problem is Islam itself. No more Muslims ergo, no more terrorism. But then in the same breath, those same people turn around and defend the effort in Iraq to stabilize and moderate the violence there. It's baffling.

It makes no sense, and tells me that the 'final solution' option is a knee-jerk, emotional response to the frustrations involved in this conflict. Ya know, liberals are always accused by conservatives of being unrealistic; genocide is NOT a solution to anything. It's madness, a Wagnerian fantasy from people who've lost touch with reality and lost touch with the practicalities of foreign policy in that region. Any decent person knows this. You all know it too, surely to God?

I've already suggested a couple of options that I think would bear fruit, but was mocked as a crack-head for for doing so. One of those is to encourage moderates in order to isolate the extremists. In theory at least, this is exactly what the current US mission in Iraq is all about (elections, reconstruction, free press etc). There are millions of peaceful, secular Muslims in the world (Turkey, for example) who DON'T WANT fanaticism and fundamentalism and mediaevalism. We have to show those people we're on their side. All of the intelligence estimates and high level panels say the same thing....encourage moderation, create a civil society, bring to bear the fruits of democracy (an Iraq plan which Bushco. has jeopardized with their corruption and incompetence and mismanangement).

Encourage those people and you might begin to turn the tide. Lump them all in with the terrorists JUST BECAUSE they're Muslim and you create 1.2 billion enemies.

Flame away!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 3:39 PM Paulie writes:

Bradford

Bradford,

I, too, would like to extend my sincerest apologies for hurting your feelings about the "back on the crack pipe" crack.

That was truly unnecessary, and I don't know what I was thinking.

Maybe I thought that I was making a joke about how badly you were faring in the running debate. (As you continue to do--fare badly, that is. Just sayin'...).

I suppose that if one takes oneself as seriously as you do, it is understandable that your skin would be as thin as it is.

Oops. I'm sorry again, Bradford. That might be considered hate speech, huh?

And your challenge to go back and re-read all your posts so that all your "nuances" can sink in; well, that's so.....self-absorbed that it begs to be ignored.

Again, I'm sorry. Please don't be offended.

Hopefully you'll take my apologies as 100% literally as you take other comments posted here.

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 3:44 PM The Crawfish writes:

short term vs long term

What Brad doesn't understand is that the short term goal is stability, while what will be necessary in the long run is to finish the genocidal war. Most Christians hold the hope that eventually the Followers of the False Prophet will see the error of their ways and Islam will die off, but the odds on that happening are so slim as to be microscopic. Do I wish all muslims to die? No. Do I think it will eventually be necessary? Yes.

As for the death tolls from insurgencies... Yes, there's more now than there were in Japan and Germany, but then again most of the supporters of Hitler and Tojo were already DEAD when the occupation started. We didn't completely destroy the cities of Iraq the way we did in WW2. We showed the Japanese and Germans an awesome amount of force that killed large numbers and cowed most of the remainder.

Corruption by Bush caused problems over there? Yeah, like the oil for food corruption?

Have I ever known any muslims? Yes, but they would be considered MINOs, because they didn't believe in lots of what the Koran says. They were born into that religion and believed in God/Allah, but couldn't make the connection from the peaceful passages of the Koran and the commandments of Jihad that were pervasive in the book. Last I knew of them, they were talking to priests and preachers, trying to find some form of worship that felt more like truth to them.

Psalm23,
he'll never understand, 'cause he's never actually paid attention to what the Koran says and what the mullahs and imams preach.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:01 PM Bradford. writes:

Paulie

Is that all you got? Snark?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:03 PM Bradford. writes:

Ah

Paulie, I didn't realize all your bleating about the ills of the world was a big put on. My bad.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:05 PM Bradford. writes:

Crawfish

OK, debate over. For you it's a Holy War. I can't argue with that. For you it's about Belief, not Reason.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:23 PM BrianR writes:

Bradford: What moderates?

The same "moderates" who in this country raise such a voice of condemnation against the actions of terrorists?

Oh, wait, there aren't any.

Perhaps the same moderates who participated in the free elections in Palestine and elected Hamas. That who you mean?

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:29 PM Paulie writes:

Bradford, Bradford, Bradford

Sheesh.

Get over yourself, huh?

"Snark" ????

Here I am, not piling on, and this is what I get?

Where's the love?

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:41 PM Psalm23 writes:

Bradford 1- remedies

In regards to the comment "One of those is to encourage moderates in order to isolate the extremists." Encourage Islamic moderates to do what exactly? Moderates by definition are wont to do anything besides going along to get along. Extremists will ALWAYS win out over moderates (of any stripe).
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:45 PM Nee writes:

Bradford

Same shitt, different day, for ya, huh? You used the kill 'em all routine on my blog,too. Guess you didn't read my "It Ain't J'miraquai" story either.
Nobody WANTS children to die, nobody WANTS to wipe out an entire population...for crying out loud!
Unfortunately, WAR IS WHAT IT IS!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:48 PM Paulie writes:

Careful, Nee

Don't want to hurt Bradford's feelings.

He's very sensitive, you know.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 4:56 PM Nee writes:

ALL

Pepp, That pisses me off every time I even consider the ROE only to see another troop pulled out of the swamps after they had been killed. You saw the Al-quaeda manual from the Smoking Gun didn't ya? think I sent you the link or was it to Guns?


Brian, this is a nice companion piece to your "torture"story...
BTW, wanna see it(torture) go to Michael Savages site...I am sure he has the Nick Berg clip. (Maybe B1 will get it?...Nah...)

Hey Craw...you are correct that the GC rules are only privy to the signers. In fact, no ME countries have ever signed that I know of, save for the King of Persia(aka Iran,haha). People jsut don't get that it doesn't apply.

Peace through Victory, Peace through strength, and Superior Firepower!!!
Got to Blackfive and see the video of the AF taking out an Al-quaeda camp...awesome!!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:00 PM Nee writes:

Paulie

I could care less about hurting anyone's feelings, least of all a spewing monkey who repeats the same crap over and over then tells me(*watch*, I am dramatically falling)"my brain reels."
Maybe if there weren't so much mush in it...
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:16 PM Peppermint writes:

karennc

Why would I debate you? You lost cred with me when you talked about Palestinians in your 100 year old Bible. Like PPhil said that was created by Arafat.

If the Palestinians really wanted some level of "real" peace with Israel, why are they constantly bombing them?

They get handed tons of money from all over the world? Have they done anything with that money to better themselves? No. They just buy weapons to destroy Israelis.

They live like pigs rather than take responsibility for themselves. In fact, these people were thrown out of other Arab countries who didn't want them.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:19 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

I extend my apology for calling you a crack head. But, I get frustrated with your constant argument that we are to befriend the "moderates" of Islam.
What moderates? You just keep saying this and it doesn't make any sense.

You keep asking people if they know any Muslims. Do you? And, if so, how do you know if that Muslim is really your friend? I asked this of you another time and you never answered me.

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:28 PM Peppermint writes:

Dan874

Thanks for weighing in on the subject. Glad you came by.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:29 PM Peppermint writes:

Thanks to all

who are on here debating. Good reading material when I got home from work.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 5:37 PM Peppermint writes:

karen

The war was given an approval by Congress. Did you forget that?

Almost all the pols voted to go into Iraq. You go to war with the army you got, like Rummy said. When war comes to your doorstep, you are left to fight it with what you got.

Also, you probably forget that after 9/11, everyone, including the entire world saw Saddam as a major threat. That's why we went into Iraq.

The war was won quickly. The aftermath is the rebuilding and that takes time. And, I don't believe anyone here said they were in love with Bush.

I extend my empathy for having relatives in war. I've been there with a bunch of my relatives including one who was killed in VN.

But, your bitterness over having these men fight a war is your own issue. No one is drafted into the service. These men have volunteered. If they didn't want to fight a war, they should never have joined. No one forced them to join the military including the National Guard.

Who do you suppose is going to fight this war against the jihadists? Do you want them at your doorstep where you will have to fight them yourself? I doubt that.

A lot of what you posted about equipment, etc. is just old talking points that we've seen on the threads of TH by a poster named kimberly. Perhaps you are kimberly using a different name. She seems to have disappeared.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 7:03 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

karennkc

You are a very deluded or mentally ill person. Get some help soon. Dial 911.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 8:09 PM Raging Bunny writes:

All

WOW! Some interesting stuff being brought up here.

Karen...$kank? I can think of a few other words to call you but I won't. I truely hope you and yours wont re-enlist. Sounds like some people I wouldn't want at my back when the s$it flies. You also sound like someone who would be glad if the world had just wiped out the jews. Stuff your bible babes and go stuff your head back up shehags A**.

Pepp..Wille

I have a story for ya...Willi I hope you know the meaning and can truely understand what I'm trying to say here. I was 24 when I went to Korea. It is now policy for all US soldiers to go to the DMZ. Whule there we went into the tunnels that come from the north to the south. Along the way there was a group of elderly people walking to the exit. EVERY single one of them stopped and shook our hands and kissed us on the cheek. There was one lady I will never forget. Story was she and her children walked from northen Korea to the south after her brother, father and husband were murdered for not joining the NKA. They had no food and had to hide several times. Her oldest son died en-route. She walked up to me a hugged me until her friend pulled her from me appologising for for her getting so upset. It made me think that this is why we are really here....to keep the peace and help those who would give up so much to live.

The same is happening in Iraq. The war is over. We need to stay to give those who would help themselves a hand. Is it going to be soon? No.So we need more troops? Yes. I read where the Dems are wanting to spend all this money to help the terrs in Gitmo out in court...um WHAT THE HE**!?!? Um seems to me maybe they could use that money to send the troops what they need.

Pepp....Sorry for the comment up above but she really burned me on that one. Maybe she should go over there and cry and sob over the fact that only some of those people are just coming out of their shells and starting to do something.

Brad...I still don't believe in moderates but have you read the story about the town that called in the US soldiers to help them out? This is what happens when the soldiers are allowed to do their jobs. Good for them.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 8:18 PM Peppermint writes:

Raging Bunny

Thanks for your comments. I really loved the story about when you were in Korea. It shows us all that our soldiers can make a difference and some people are grateful to us for all the sacrifices that are made for them.

I don't like anti-semitic remarks on my blog. That is crossing a very stiff boundary with me.

So, I can certainly understand your anger of what has been said by one of the posters here. I do not take kindly to that kind of speech.

I like people to speak freely on my blog, but not hate speech such as karennkc wrote. It's beyond the limit for me.

Thanks again RB for stopping by and adding your comments. Purplegimp would be proud.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 8:40 PM xpressit writes:

Karennkc

“Sorry to bore you with tired old posts about the army being pushed to the breaking point.”

First of all, then why do you? I see, you go to someone’s blog and pose your own concerns/issues. BTW: using the word sorry implies regret. Without any sincerity, that you apologize even while doing it, along with your other behavior, implies more of a compulsive problem.

Half of your statements are conjecture, i.e. this is Bush’s war. I suggest the time you are wasting here could be better spent contacting your comrade reps to ask why they did not oppose it. You might get your answers.


....And why are you even at TH that you hate? Much as your want to turn this blog, or any here you choose into moonbat central, I don't expect you will.

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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 8:48 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Thanks for your input. I really hate my blog being turned into a toilet receptacle for some foul mouthed poster who has nothing else to do with their time except run around TH posting nonsense. Like you said, why bother if you hate this site that bad. There are plenty of Internet sites that would welcome karen, such as DU, who are used to such comments as she makes. They would love her there.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:13 PM The Crawfish writes:

I guess Karen

thinks that all of us in here are draft dodgers or armchair soldiers. She don't realize that a lot of us are either currently active duty or are vets who have been there, done that.

Pepp, this post is getting more comments than Julie's last entry!
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:16 PM Peppermint writes:

Hi Crawfish

Yeah, I know.
Did you get my email about the "immigration" bill dying in the Senate?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:20 PM Raging Bunny writes:

Karen

So now I'm a stripping crack head? I guess you would know one when you see one. OK what ever floats your boat towards your kids education...just don't let them burn their fingers. First of all, you started the jew bashing. I hope you know there is a jew that is a very good friend of mine who posts here. She can tell you what you want.

I know I'm about to really tick a few people off by what I'm about to say here, and I'm sorry, but who wrote the bible? God himself? No he instructed man to write his laws. IF you really want to get into it we can take it off list. I'm not about to burn Pepps valuable time. You really need to get a grip and read a little more than the bible. It has nothing to do with now. Holy War? No. This about people who have murdered thousands and have hid behind religion. Religion is the easiest thing to hide behind. I wouldn't be surprised if now you'll attack me on this. I have strong faiths that I will never back down on because it seems in my short years I have had more experience than you or your soon to be. Have I had to go to Iraq? No, I'm too old. Would I? Yes. Would you? Probably not because you are one of these that hide behind your religion.

Again..I say that this will not be over in a day, week, month or year...it takes tie and Karen has even said it itself...thousands of years have passed and it's not over yet.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:21 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

karennkc, Yer Right!!

You've completely changed my mind. America sucks and we should all die. Thank you.

Now, you can take a break.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:24 PM Raging Bunny writes:

Pepp

Uh oh...we have another dead dog beater here....

karennkc writes: Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:03 PM
The Suge Is Just Another Fraud
“…Military officials acknowledged Monday that U.S.-led forces control fewer than one-third of Baghdad’s neighborhoods despite thousands of extra troops nearly four months into a security crackdown…American and Iraqi forces were able to ‘protect the population’ and ‘maintain physical influence over’ only 148 of the 457 Baghdad neighborhoods.”

http://www.kansascity.com/449/story/134716.html - Surge



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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:25 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

karenkc

Suge? You mean Suge Knight? I know he's a punk but I didn't know he was a fraud.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:32 PM willibeaux writes:

Pepp etal

Here is the link for our temporary victory on the phony immigration bill. You may want to thank your Senator(s) for voting NAY on cloture.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00204
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:34 PM Peppermint writes:

RB and PPhil

RB: Yeah, the bone never gets buried.

PPhil: LOL! Someone needs to use the spell checker.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:36 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

OK. First I need to see if my senators voted nay.
I kind of doubt it with my two, one a dim, the other a rhino. I'll check the link.

Whatever, it is good news.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:36 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Willi Beax

It's only a temporary victory unless Mitt or Fred step up now and vow to keep it dead. Make the 2008 election a referendum on border control and how Congress conducts its business. Can't lose. I'm betting Mitt will beat Fred to it.

BTW, I saw Barbara Boxer voted Nay as did Lott and Graham. CYA for sure.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 9:51 PM willibeaux writes:

Pasadena Phil, Pepp

Thanks Phil & Pepp!! You are right on. Of course CYA is the natural behavior of our esteemed elected officials.
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:08 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

Do you have the link where I can go see who voted nay?
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:21 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Pepp

Check my post above for the link
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Thursday, June, 07, 2007 10:32 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Pep

Michelle Malkin will have it.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 1:02 AM xpressit writes:

Hmmm

McCain not voting? My two are a tag team lib-duo. Willi Beax: esteemed elected officials (EEO's), I like that.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:39 AM Peppermint writes:

Ha

My rhino Voinivich voted nay. He got the message all right. The dim Brown voted yea. We won't forget this and he needs to be voted out next time he runs. I will be informing all my family and friends about him.
If Brown thinks we'll forget he's wrong.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:00 AM Nee writes:

well,I got lucky

Dole voted against, but I cannot understand why the heck she voted against Coburn's ammendment to enforce existing immigration laws???
Hey Pepp...
Karen is fukking nuts!!! If she claims to have kids then she probably isn't monkey girl. Maybe it's her sister!!! LOL
Where has Pappy Michael been?
(And, obviously I don't miss monkey girl, or phylo.)
Have you "seen" Sawgunner, Dash or Icedog? I get to worrying....
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:34 AM The Crawfish writes:

Holy War?

Brad, Brad, Brad....you're such a confused young man. It's not a holy war for me, nor for those who believe like me. We welcome the support of people from all non-muslim religions, along with athiests. It's only a holy war for those who are following the directives of the religion that commands it's people to kill, convert, or enslave all of the people in the world who are not part of that religion. It's only a holy war for the religion who's followers, the media, and liberals continually call the 'religion of peace'. Remember, another commandment from the Koran is that believers are to lie to the infidels about their intentions.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:39 AM The Crawfish writes:

speaking of MIAs....

I'm a bit surprised that our fearsome retired Jarhead hasn't put anything in this thread. Maybe he's 'busy' with his Chief Justice....
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:15 AM Bradford_ writes:

Pepp

"I really hate my blog being turned into a toilet receptacle for some foul mouthed poster"

Pepp, your sanctimonious double standards are hilarious. I guess it's OK if your posters advocate genocide. I'll ask again; do you think we should kill all Muslims the world over just because they're Muslims? Should we deal with the Muslims the way Hitler tried to deal with Jewish people?
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:44 AM Bradford_ writes:

BrianR

"The same "moderates" who in this country raise such a voice of condemnation against the actions of terrorists? Oh, wait, there aren't any. Perhaps the same moderates who participated in the free elections in Palestine and elected Hamas. That who you mean?'

I'm talking about Iraq, Brian. Do you *really* believe there are NO moderate Muslims out there? If you don't, do you still support the war in Iraq and if so, why?
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 11:38 AM The Crawfish writes:

Pepp

I don't think he'll ever get it. The ones advocating genocide are the Muslims and their Koran. We don't want genocide, but if it's a choice between them or us, I'll choose us.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 12:33 PM BrianR writes:

Brad: Excellent question

Yes, I feel there are no moderates in Iraq in any number to speak of, that's simply the nature of the culture.

Yes, I do support the war. America has a national self-interest in the region -- oil -- and we'd be criminally remiss if we didn't act to secure a reliable supply. Further, by focusing the actions of the terrs on Iraq and Afghanistan -- making them commit their resources there -- we limit their ability to do anything HERE.

I don't couch my support to the war in high-flying and unrealistic emotional rhetoric about spreading democracy through the region. My motives are pragmatic.


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Friday, June, 08, 2007 12:46 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

BrianR

Not to intrude on your excellent arguments but the main sticking point in establishing a ruling coalition in Iraq is that they can't agree on how to share the oil revenues or who is allowed to sit at the negotiation table. Even if they agreed on something, the Islamists won't honor the agreement and that is the problem. The can get bombs inside their own parliament. How can we trust anyone there when even among themselves, they can't agree to a single place to meet and talk. I say, abandon the cities and establish military strongholds in the desert and along the coasts and borders where we can easily defend our own interests. If they insist on dying, let them kill each other. When we invaded Iraq, we didn't mean to interrupt the several hundred-year genocide they insist on finishing. They just can't adjust to a world where they don't see dead bodies are not lying around or floating past everywhere they go.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 12:49 PM Bradford. writes:

Fair enough

Brian. At least you're honest about 'Pax Americana.' And consistent. Unlike some others around here.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 12:54 PM Bradford. writes:

Crawfish

OK, let's kill 'em all. What method, d'you think? Gassing? Nuclear bombs? If we start soon, maybe we can kill all 1.2 billion in time for Christmas.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 12:58 PM Bradford. writes:

PPhil

"I say, abandon the cities and establish military strongholds in the desert and along the coasts and borders where we can easily defend our own interests."

This is exactly what's going to happen, I think, with Bush letting slip about the 'Korea' model and the new half-billion US Embassy in Baghdad. Permanent occupation of our imperial assets, a la ancient Rome.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 1:00 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Bradford

Yeah. I agree. I heard that they plan on calling that embassy the Bush Presidential Library.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 1:01 PM Bradford. writes:

Heh

Nice one Phil.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 2:02 PM The Crawfish writes:

geez

has he even paid any attention to what I've been saying?

Is the only way for the war to end is for one side to completely eliminate the other? Yes. Is that what needs to happen right now? Not necessarily.

The war of Islam vs everybody else has gone in phases. For a while, they go wild, then they calm down for a few years or decades. Our goals right now are to bring about one of those calmed down periods and keep it for a long time.

As worked up as the Islamic world has gotten over the past 40 years or so, my personal belief is that it ain't exactly a promising proposition. The rise of terrorist states and movements (Hamas, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, the Wahabbi sects, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, etc) has probably made a solution that's not based on overwhelming force and a knockout blow an impossibility.

That being said, we aren't about to start any genocidal actions...until they pop-off a nuke in one of our cities. I didn't say unless. I said until. It's just a matter of where and when, unfortunately.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 3:30 PM RazorTongue writes:

I agree with Pepp on this:

I agree on Pepp fully when it comes to this:

Rule 1 You shoot at us...we kill you. Man, women or child.
Rule 2: Use a Mosque for cover? The Mosque gets destroyed.
Rule 3: The hell with the Geneva Convention.
Rule 4: In all other combat situations, see rules 1 and rule 2.
Rule 5. Combat is not fought by lawyers and desk jockeys. It's kill or be killed. There's no time to think. Either the enemy dies or you die...now which is it going to be?

******************************

You can not treat the apparent enemy with kid gloves. It doesn't work that way. What are we supposed to do? Smack their fingers and say "You've been really bad, now go stand in the corner for five minutes and think about what you've done."? Sorry, that's not the way war works. However much we all wish we could talk them around, to make them realise just how sick it all is, that will never happen. That's Utopia. One can dream, but that's all it will ever be. A dream.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 4:59 PM Nee writes:

Bradford

Your same crap is posted, yet, (yawn) again. Holy cow-you really do think ignorance is bliss,huh? Drop the genocide arguments and come up with a fool-proof "diplomatic plan"...It just cannot be done. However,follow steps listed above and we might get somewhwere. War is ugly and the pussyfooting around does NOTHING.

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:04 PM Peppermint writes:

RazorTongue

I didn't write those rules. Another poster did, but I sure do agree with them
Thanks for stopping by my blog and adding your opinion.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:05 PM Peppermint writes:

Nee, Brad, PPhil and BrianR

Thanks for all the good debate going on while I'm at work. LOL! I wish I could have been in on it. But, somebody has to work. Just kidding of course.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:08 PM Peppermint writes:

You too Crawfish

I like how you have couched the argument. It's not we who want genocide, it's the Islamics.

What are we supposed to do, just sit here and do nothing while they plan to kill all of us off.

And, it's a horror, but most likely, they will have to drop a nuke on us, or use dirty bombs before the other half of our population here in the States takes this war seriously enough.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:13 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

"Pepp, your sanctimonious double standards are hilarious. I guess it's OK if your posters advocate genocide. I'll ask again; do you think we should kill all Muslims the world over just because they're Muslims? Should we deal with the Muslims the way Hitler tried to deal with Jewish people"

I don't see any posters advocating genocide.
I see posters speaking with reality about the situation regarding Islam and what the Muslims want to do. They want to form a caliphate and take over the world with Islam.

Now, I'm not going for that. Maybe that's all right to you, but not me. I don't care to be one of their slaves who gets stoned for nothing.

I never said kill Muslims the world over. That's you talking. You are putting words into my posts that haven't been said.

Beside we wouldn't have to kill all of them, just enough to get their attention enough that they stop bothering us and go on about their own business. Leave us and the world alone, stop beheading people, and cut the barbarism out.

Most likely that won't happen. But, we need to defang them.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:19 PM RazorTongue writes:

Peppermint..

I know you didn't write them. =) It was Raging Bunny who got me here. *LOL*
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 5:24 PM Peppermint writes:

RazorTongue

Well I sure appreciate you coming by. We seem to be on the same page that's for sure.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 6:26 PM BrianR writes:

LOL, Pepp

Well, I don't have to work.

Bliss is spelled r-e-t-i-r-e-m-e-n-t.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 6:26 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Why I don't come here sooner

I don't know...

ALways brilliant. And these questions should be answered...
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 6:32 PM BrianR writes:

Phil, another excellent question by you

See, the problems you outlined are actually due to the same issue Brad raised, i.e. the ME culture.

Again, I think the idea of Western-style democracy in the region is a pipe-dream.

If you accept that and move forward, the answers become very simple.

We install a Shah-style benevolent despot with Western ideology, education, and political commitments. We make sure he's dependant on us for his existence. We control the guy; he's OUR SOB. We make sure he stays in power at our pleasure.

Voila! End of all the problems in the country. If he starts getting ideas about repressiveness, persecutions, independance, or in any other way gets out of line, we yank his chain back into line.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 6:41 PM Bradford_ writes:

pepp

well Carwfish was one of those "posters advocating genocide," though he (she?..sorry Craw, not sure) backed away from that a bit above.

Actually, Crawfish, when you write "our goals right now are to bring about one of those calmed down periods and keep it for a long time" and when I write (see 3.33PM June 7 above) we're actually not that far apart.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 6:42 PM Bradford_ writes:

BrianR

You sound more and more like Nero (or is it Hadrian) with every post!
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:06 PM willibeaux writes:

Peppermint, etal

Here is my Republican Senator's response to my immigration concerns. He is right on the money. He's retiring from the Senate in 2008. Too bad. He voted NAY against cloture.




June 8, 2007

Dear Mr. And Mrs. Willi Beaux
Thank you for expressing your concerns with the recent trends in illegal immigration. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on this important issue.

I make a clear distinction between illegal and legal immigration. Although we are a nation of immigrants, we are also a nation of laws. Those who enter our country illegally disrespect our laws and take advantage of our generous immigration system. We should no longer be passive about deportation, particularly with illegal immigrants who have committed crimes in this country.

As for legal immigration, I favor strong sponsorship requirements and other policies that aim to ensure that immigrants enter this country as productive members of society in pursuit of opportunity, not public assistance. As Americans, we must not forget that many of our forefathers were immigrants who had a strong sense of personal responsibility and who established the strong foundations of individualism which have made this country what it is today. Our country thrives on the new ideas and fresh energy that our many legal immigrants continue to bring. Any solution addressing the current immigration dilemma must acknowledge the important contributions legal immigrants make to our country without rewarding illegal behavior.

While there is no easy answer to the problem of illegal immigration, one thing is for certain: the need to gain control of our borders. Securing the borders is the mandatory first step in comprehensive immigration reform. Without properly securing our borders, we remain vulnerable not only to illegal immigration, but also to those who wish harm to America, such as criminals, drug traffickers, and terrorists. While we must also address the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants already here, we must, out of respect for the rule of law and the millions of legal immigrants, not reward them for breaking the law by granting amnesty.

The American people and the people of Colorado are demanding better border security and better enforcement of our current immigration laws. Our immigration laws need to be reformed in a way that acknowledges the contribution of immigrants to our country, while simultaneously preserving the bedrock principle upon which the country was founded: the rule of law.

Thank you for writing to share your concerns. I look forward to hearing from you again. If you would like more information on issues important to Colorado and the nation, please log on to my website at http://allard.senate.gov.


Sincerely,
A
Wayne Allard
United States Senator

WA:st


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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:47 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian or Nero or Hadrian

Whoever you are, glad you're enjoying retirement.
Not something I can do right now if ever. Don't even know if I'd want to really.

Actually, that's a good idea, Brian, go back to the days of the Shah. Keep him in line.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:49 PM Peppermint writes:

VADaddy

Yeah, you should come more often. You always have interesting comments I see on "others' blogs. LOL
You just "forget" about little ole me.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 7:56 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

You just take things too literally sometimes. People get frustrated and angry over this situation. You should know that when that happens things get said that are over the top at times.

This GWOT is a frustrating and long, hard drag on everyone. The Islamists aren't going to give up, but the some of the American people are ready to cave. We're too soft these days. Everyone is used to the drive thru burger shops, pharmacies and banks. Some people think wars can be fought on the "drive through" mentality.

Crawfish is just venting mostly. That's how I take it anyway. We all say things like he does occasionally because most libs don't get it. You can't just talk to fanatical people like these Islamic killers and expect they are going to think like we do. They don't. They don't value life, anyone's life, not even their own children's. It's all based on killing the infidels and Jews.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:00 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

So, what is your opinion about that letter? Do you believe him? I don't know what has been his role or beliefs in this issue before you started beating him over the head about it.

You must understand I'm not too trusting of any pols right now, either side of the fence.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:29 PM Bradford_ writes:

OK Pepp

can I take you're a strict constructionist when it comes to interpreting the Constitution but a 'textualist' when it comes to interpreting comments left at TH? ;)
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:32 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Oh, please...

...nobody "forgets" about Peppermint.

Va.Daddy's comment was obviously a slip of the fingers.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:35 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

There's a big difference between the Constitution and comments made at TH.

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:36 PM Peppermint writes:

JimmyCarter

Well, I know "you" don't forget me. You're a real gentleman.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 8:56 PM davecatbone writes:

Pepp

I agree with RazorTongue, the Chicago style of dealing with enemies. And I do think you need to watch the "text" a little more closely, somebody might really think you want to machine gun down illegal aliens crossing the borders illegally;)
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 9:00 PM Peppermint writes:

Davecatbone

Yeah, the Peppermint Constitution or the Peppermint Immigration Bill. That's the ticket. :-D
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 9:16 PM The Crawfish writes:

Crawfish a SHE????

Brad doesn't pay much attention to the posts or to Juliet's diary, does he? How many times do I reference my wife and daughters?

Pepp & Brad, yes a lot of my posts are rants that are a bit over the top, but they do convey my feelings. Islam IS the enemy, and therefore anybody who is a Muslim, and not a MINO, is the enemy. That's not over the top or a rant, that's the simple truth. Dim-ocrats are (well, Dim politicians mostly are...) the enemies of the Constitution. That's not an over the top rant. Their actions prove it time and again. They proved it again in the immigration bill battle when Teddythedrunk (D-Chappaquiddick) led the opposition to Senator Cornyn's amendment that would have made all illegals who have committed other crimes, violent crimes, sex crimes, drug crimes, and those who had gang affiliation...ALL of those aliens would have been forbidden to get legal status. The Dims wouldn't abide by that drain on their future voting block. They WANT criminals to come here.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 9:33 PM Bradford_ writes:

Apologies

for the gender mix-up, Crawfish. And Pepp, I was joking about the constitution vs TH comments.

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:15 PM BrianR writes:

Brad: Hadrian?

Sun Tzu, perhaps. Maybe Machiavelli.

But HADRIAN???!!!!

Worse yet: NERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm insulted, I'm sure.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:17 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Overwhelming, there...

I feel like I am late to the party here... :(

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:21 PM Peppermint writes:

Crawfish

My apologies. I didn't mean to dismiss what you are saying Crawfish. I just meant your comments about genocide should not be taken exactly literally. I agree that Islam is the enemy and we either kill them or they kill us. There are not many good options.
But, I was referencing Brad's comment likening to what you are saying to the Nazi gas chambers. I don't think that is what you meant.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:22 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

Yeah, I realized that later. I'm just very tired tonight. Joke noted. Good to know you have a sense of humor.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:24 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Machiavelli! That's it. That's a good description of you. LOL
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:25 PM Peppermint writes:

VADaddy

You're not late. Just jump into the fun. Whatever that may be.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Uh, er, Crawfish

Brad does not like Juliet's diary all that much.
He doesn't approve of us killing off socialists.:-0
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:37 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

I know

And I will.

Good stuff.

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:41 PM BrianR writes:

Machiavelli was a very wise man

Politics grounded in the reality of the possible.

A political Sun Tzu.

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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:44 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Didn't someone refer to you as a king?
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:47 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

No, No, No...

...Brian ain't no king....He's a Mafia Don....
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:51 PM Peppermint writes:

JimmyCarter

Yeah, you know he kind of looks the part too.
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 10:53 PM Peppermint writes:

JimmyCarter

I just had a song going through my head, "Pennies from Heaven". Ever heard of it?
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 11:05 PM willibeaux writes:

Brian

Is you Vito Cordeleone?
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Friday, June, 08, 2007 11:23 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Pepp

I don't blame you for being skeptical. As far as I know he has been strong on enforcing the current immigration laws. He's one of the low profile Senators; not one who does a whole lot of posturing or pontificating like the "Swimmer", or Chuckie Schumer, or Jon Carry etal.
He's a veterinarian and not a shyster lawyer like most of the politicians. Oy Gevalt!! What else can I say? I haven't received a response from Dim Senator Salazar. That turkey was one of co-sponsors of the "Swimmers" bill. BTW I just heard a rumor that the "Swimmer" moonlights at the local YWCA as a lifeguard. Go figure.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 12:04 AM BrianR writes:

You guys lookin'

to find the head of a horse in your beds?

A little respect, please.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 12:44 AM jevica writes:

Peppermint

Great post. Have not read all the comments.

We see over and over what they do to our soldiers they take prisoner.

we take Islamists prisoner, and there might be aggressive questioning, but not the regular action of torture and beheading that happens to our men all to often.

Our "rules of engagement" have us show compassion and treat them much better then they had it in their own life.

Instead of having everyone "like" us, could be it's better to have them fear us. Let them know if that's what's going to happen to our men they take prisoner, then let's show them a "take no prisoners" attitude.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 12:52 AM willibeaux writes:

Brian

So you are the reincarnated Vito. We all better watch our P's and Q's.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 7:54 AM Nee writes:

Willi

Watch out, re-incarnates like 'Vito' might send you an email "fish" or tell you about putting down good "foundations" of respect for the Dons!!! Yikes! youse might need some protection! GunnyG...
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:11 AM none06789 writes:

Bradford1 writes

"Bradford1 writes: Wednesday, June, 06, 2007 2:15 PM
so-called patriot
"Rule 1 You shoot at us...we kill you. Man, women or child.
Rule 2: Use a Mosque for cover? The Mosque gets destroyed.
Rule 3: The hell with the Geneva Convention.
Rule 4: In all other combat situations, see rules 1 and rule 2.
Rule 5. Combat is not fought by lawyers and desk jockeys. It's kill or be killed. There's no time to think. Either the enemy dies or you die...now which is it going to be?"

Like I said at Brian's place the other day, this approach sure worked out well for the German's
in Russia, didn't it? "

"so-called patriot"

1.I think my 12+ years of combat arms experience and my 10 plus years of DOD contracting experience, the last 6 of which has been spent on technologies that are directly affecting the safety of our military men and women, speaks more about my level of patriotism than your snide little putdown.

2. I have spent a great deal of my own money to help finance an entire platoon of Stryker folks, this past Easter...so that they could all get phone cards and goodie baskets.

3. After sending my Mom a Mothers Day Gift, I picked a female soldier at random and sent her a huge package of goodies for Mother's day.

4. I did the same thing this past Christmas for a kid from my own state.

5. And what have you done for the troops lately? Or for that matter for your country?

6. And the War in Russia against the Germans was a war for a nation's survival. When an entire nation is attacked, you don't play lawyer head games. The Germans deserved what they got. Anyone who wants a war of annihilation against the world ought to get what they ask for.

7.In war, if you want the best chance of survival, you have only a split second to make a judgement. You can lawyerize all you want. But when the life of an individual soldier or Marine is on the line and they are all your men, and friends, you don't play around.

ROE's are made by lawyers to CYA. The are made by deskjockey lawyers who wouldn't know a rifle from hockey stick.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:15 AM none06789 writes:

And Peppermint

I see you are attracting quite a following? Even the libs are following you. Sort of like mosquitos in a swamp? It doesn't matter how much bug juice you use, they still manage to get in your C-Rats?
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:16 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

Funny. I hope you don't mean my place is a swamp attracting mosquitoes. LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:18 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

Kudos to you for all you've done in support of our soldiers. I often wonder too about the people complaining about us not really supporting the troops, just mouthing about it. But, many of us do things like you wrote in support.

I do think you have a lot of cred since you've been there, done that.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:23 AM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

We all need to watch our spelling. Brian uses the spell checker on people. LOL. You have to visit JimmyCarter's place to understand that one.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:25 AM none06789 writes:

Followup to your story

I was listening to the news yesterday. Maybe CNN. Not really sure of the source. The military has identified 17 Jihadis involved in the massacre of our kids. Three of them are in custody.

I'm just curious how they got the 17 names. Could it be, that the information was gotten by the Iraqis themselves, in a way and manner that the Jihadis respect? As in methods that they themselves use? One can only speculate. But it delights the imagination just thinking about it?

If you see GunnyG, tell him I said Semper Fi.

Lastly, if you get time head on over to patdollard.com and check out his posted pic on his G8 summit link. You'll laugh your behind off.

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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:26 AM Peppermint writes:

jevica

Thanks for stopping by. I think you are a newcomer to my blog. Hope you come by more often.

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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:27 AM Peppermint writes:

Nee

Ewwwww! That sure would be stinky to wake up to a fish head in your bed. Yuck.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:33 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

Ha! Ha! Yep, I'm sure the Iraqis when questioning enemies use kid gloves, give the jihadists good meals, hand them their Koran, and give them plenty of good sunshine and exercise. LOL

Given what we've seen in the past about how Iraqis settle their scores, it does delight the imagination
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:33 AM none06789 writes:

Peppermint

"Funny. I hope you don't mean my place is a swamp attracting mosquitoes. LOL"

Naw. The whole idea of libs trying to make any points with conservatives, to me is just as annoying as those mosquitoes that I described.

To get a feel for it, imagine walking through a snake infested swamp, with about 75 pounds of gear on your back, up to your neck in swamp water, as soon as you get out and rest, you pull out a can of C-s, open it up, and try and get a quick meal. No sooner than you do that, every mosquito on the planet decides to try and share your meal with you.

It's just so much buzzing in my ear. LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:39 AM none06789 writes:

Peppermint

"Ha! Ha! Yep, I'm sure the Iraqis when questioning enemies use kid gloves, give the jihadists good meals, hand them their Koran, and give them plenty of good sunshine and exercise. LOL"

Yeah, a fresh prayer rug and a footwash basin too.

I'm just wondering, do we also tuck them in at bedtime. Maybe read them a story from the PLO/Hamas version of Mickey Mouse?

Or maybe a story from the "Three Little Shaheens"? LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:40 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

I was just joking with you. I sure do know what you mean. It's like swatting flies with the libs. No matter how many times you use the flyswatter on them, they manage to slip away.

Arguments with libs are so futile. No matter how you present the facts of any given situation, they don't get it.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:54 AM Peppermint writes:

Brian

You know we all have our deepest respect for you, the Godfather of TH. LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:03 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

"Yeah, a fresh prayer rug and a footwash basin too.

I'm just wondering, do we also tuck them in at bedtime. Maybe read them a story from the PLO/Hamas version of Mickey Mouse?"

Yeah, nothing like good ole jihad reading before bedtime to settle down the inmates! Too funny.

And, the libs think we can make friends with people who use Mickey Mouse to brain wash their kids into killing us. Right!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:32 AM none06789 writes:

Hi again

"I was just joking with you"

I knew that.

"Yeah, a fresh prayer rug and a footwash basin too."

Anyone who has spent time reading the Koran, the Hadith and the Sunna, knows how the Jihadis think.

It is obvious to even the most retarded of liberals, that the Jihadis are only doing what their Koran says to do.

To say that their religion has been hijacked (ala Glenn Beck)...is ludicrous.

One does not fight a 7th century mentality with 21st century Western rules. You want to defeat a barbarian? You fight like one.

That's what they respect. Take no quarter and give no quarter.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:44 AM willibeaux writes:

Patriot11C, Pepp, Vito, Nee

Patriot11C: Thank you for serving our country. I like your comment that ROEs are made by lawyers(shysters-my description)for CYA. I know all about CYA. I was a government Contracting Officer for a number of years before I retired in 1986. Because of the constant concern of a GAO audit, I bent over backwards to make sure that all of the "I"s were dotted and all of the "T"s were crossed. That was CYA in all it's glory.

Pepp: Don't youse have "my number" by now? Use of mispelled words and poor grammer is my feeble attempts to be a smart alleck (cleaned up for the TH watchdogs). Ah will shashay over to JC's blog for the spell checker lesson. Did Ah unconfuse youse about the YEAS and NAYS?

Vito: I'm particularly fond of salmon. Send me a salmon head.

Nee: Youse must be one of dem der bad motorcyles. Maybe the "head" motorcycle could use your expertise in her Mossad. Ah think you, Tea Drinker, and Purple Gimp would make a heck of a team. What do youse think?

PS: Ah feel a little "flaky" this morning. Hence the attempts at a little humor.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:55 AM Peppermint writes:

patriot

I'm afraid you're right. If we're fighting barbarians, then we need to fight likewise. How else will we win this?

Their kids are indoctrinated to hate us. We have a whole new slew of them growing up to do the same, kill all infidels. And, we're supposed to cultivate the "moderates". This is insanity.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:45 AM Purplegimp writes:

Willi

Sure would be happy to have Nee, and Razor join us 'dem der bad motorcycles' Both would be welcome additions to the team. And just think, Razor, all the way from Sweden! She sure be one bad motorcycle! And she's only just gotten home from visiting Raging Bunny in Nevada.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:57 AM willibeaux writes:

Pepp

Are youse ignoring dis ole "pork eater"?
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 11:06 AM xpressit writes:

Pepp

Hillary's a bigger problem than Iraq... there is no exit strategy.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 11:33 AM BrianR writes:

Heh heh heh

:-)
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 12:44 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Brian

Vito strikes again!!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 1:35 PM Nee writes:

Willi,Pepp

Ah's a misplaced Yank livin' in rebel Kunn-tree. Ah never say "y'all comne back now, hee-ah?' ever! Ah repsect ma elders,oh'kaa-e?
(Oops! Better get back to my diction-- my Gram is flipping in her grave!)
I like 'ol porkers and Brian surely is the GF of TH if that is his blog with the most hits or posts...I bow my respect.
And among regular posters, Peppermint deserves recognition! Her columns really generate quite a bit of discussion. As it stands, All my blogs don't even generate half of what Pepp gets for one...You rock!!!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 1:52 PM Raging Bunny writes:

Nee

Truth be told, I haven't had this much fun since kicking my lousy good for nothing cheating hubby to the curb!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 1:54 PM Raging Bunny writes:

PG

Taking lessons on politenes and all that. You know me. I play so nice with the libs.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:23 PM xpressit writes:

Peppy' s gang

Here, here, here ... an aplause for Peppermint. (I agree) The next round is on me. (I do have a tab, don't I Pepp?)
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:30 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

You sure do have a running tab. I'll drink to that.
Happy Saturday to everyone!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:32 PM Peppermint writes:

RB

That sounds like a lot of fun, kicking the hubby out to the curb. That's where a lot of libs belong, kicked to the curb.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:33 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Yo, I'm not ignoring you, you of all people. The Korean war vet. I had to go to work just as your post came in. Darn things like jobs get in the way of fun at TH.

I'm having pork tomorrow for dinner. Anyone want to join me?
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:34 PM xpressit writes:

Whew

(relief) no one carries cash in a revolution, you know :-)
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:34 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

I see you're doing your Brando imitation.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Nee

Hey thanks for the kudos. I just write em, then let everyone say their piece. This has been a really good discussion.

Love the southern accent. I can just picture you dressed in one of those southern belle dresses, yelling F you. What an image!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:40 PM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

So RazorTongue is from Sweden? What an interesting crowd we have here. RB, RT, you and Nee would make a great dem der motorcyles mossad together. The four of you could take out any hizzie anytime, anywhere.
I daresay you four are some tough cookies. LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:42 PM Peppermint writes:

xpresssit

"no exit strategy with Hillary" OMG, hilarious.

The only exit strategy would be ole Bill maybe stealing some classified info after she appoints him to some post in the gubmint where he can get his hands on more documents to stuff somewhere. Ole Sandy Burlar won't be doing it anymore.

Then, we could put him and her in jail. Right. Like that would ever happen, them going to jail.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:45 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Maybe you could get a load of some black market spam and sell it to the libs. Make some dough that way.
They're the ones with the cash in the freezers.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 2:49 PM Peppermint writes:

Hmmm

Wonder where my favorite liberal Brad is. He must have taken off the weekend. He's probably exhausted from arguing with all of us. That's a load taking on so many people with factual and realistic comments.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 4:03 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Pepp

Thank you Maam!! Maybe we should all shashay on over to sista' Nee's blog and harass her a little bit.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 6:46 PM The Crawfish writes:

Patriot

Click on my name to find the Swamp.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 6:48 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Sounds like a good idea, to harass Nee at her blog.
If I only had the time here lately.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 7:19 PM none06789 writes:

Willi Beax

Thanks for the kind comments. I hear you are a Korean War vet? Well hush my mouth? Then that makes you a helluva man in my book.

Kudos to you and your service to our country.

And to all in here (minus you trolls on the idiot parade...and you know who you are!): It is nice to know that there are so many patriots in here.

I am an optomist by nature, I never bought into the idea that liberal socialism will ever win out over founding-father-conservatism. It is we who are tasked with bringing this nation back to it's roots. Back to the ideals of our founders.

From what I can see here, you are accomplishing your mission.

To that end, I tip my hat and drink a toast to you all.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 7:30 PM none06789 writes:

A little humor

I just heard a good one: Liberals are like granola: Whomever isn't fruits and flakes is NUTS!!

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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 7:37 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Hear Here!

patriot11C.

Here's yer bloody Mary, Peppermint....

And remember: "Neva go against tha Family."
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:41 PM RazorTongue writes:

Oh yeah, Pepp..

this b***h is from Sweden, just like Purplegimp said! *Grins evilly*

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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:53 PM none06789 writes:

J.C

Give her another!! LOL
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:56 PM none06789 writes:

Crawfish

You got a good site. The Jefferson Koran article was GREAT!!!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:57 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Hey patriot...

...if she has enough of 'em, she gets up on the table and dances..
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:57 PM none06789 writes:

Peppermint

I just posted a nostalgic article from my Basic Training experience. I think you'll like it.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 8:59 PM none06789 writes:

J.C.

"if she has enough of 'em, she gets up on the table and dances.."

ROFLMAO !!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:40 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

The only thing "Slick" will want to get his hands on will be the new Monicas. Heaven forbid. Mothers!! Please don't let any of your daughters go anywhere near the WH if Hildabeast is elected. I"m starting to think about nightmares all ready at the thought of it. Can you picture what it will be like with a sexual predator on the loose?
BTW! I sashayed over to Neester's (rhymes with Easter) blog and committed a little mischief.
PS: Don't forget to include Tea Drinker when you have an assignment for you Mossad.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:41 PM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

It occurred to me, in a recent nightmere, we haven't heard from Jackboot Reno in a while.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 9:43 PM Peppermint writes:

Now, now JC

You're giving away secrets about me that only you are supposed to know. LOL

And actually, my neighbor is just about to bring me down a good Bloody Mary right now. Can't wait for that vodka to run in my blood. Yahooooooo!!!!!!
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:33 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Maybe she's dead. I don't recall hearing much of her lately either. Well, another one bites the dust. Too bad. I feel so sad.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:35 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

OMG, the sexual predator is on the loose right now, as we speak. Who knows what he is up to. All mothers lock your doors tonight and forever. Slick Willy is on the loose.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:38 PM Peppermint writes:

patriot

JC is giving away highly classified material about me. Besides that material was a long time ago, during my days of wild youth. LOL If only I could have those days back.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 10:40 PM Peppermint writes:

RazorTongue

I love those evil grinning Swedes. I was wondering why I was seeing someone from Sweden on my site meter. Now, I know why. I can see your evil grin all the way across the Atlantic.
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Saturday, June, 09, 2007 11:49 PM xpressit writes:

Pepp

Well she could be. They'll have her boots bronzed or something. Makes you wonder who Hitlery would pick for AG? (Well that was fun.)
We wouldn't even have to hunt her down.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 12:26 AM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Lord only knows what that jackboot Hitlery would do. It's anybody's guess since she changes with the wind on a daily basis.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 1:03 AM BrianR writes:

I just had to correct Willi

on this at my place, too.

Please address me as "Don BrianR", and show some respect.

I'm running low on horses to supply heads with.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 1:50 AM Jimmy Carter writes:

It's "Brianleone"...

.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 1:53 AM Peppermint writes:

JC

That's absolutely perfect!
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 2:04 AM Peppermint writes:

Brian

You can see that JC is showing his great respect for you now. He has even come up with a special name for you.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 2:05 AM xpressit writes:

Don-Brian-R

I might take u's a while to get used to...
but I dont wanna sleep with the fishes.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 9:19 AM davecatbone writes:

Don BrianR

Be very careful at toll booths.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 9:35 AM Derf writes:

When will outrage convert?

What is the conversion time from outrage to action? In today's world we haven't seen it yet. From the time Japan hit Hawaii it was only a few months until we had troops and a country fighting for all they were worth to destroy our attackers. We've been at the post 9-11 half assed war for 5 years now and we still haven't come close to winning. Frankly, I know very few people who give a damn about Islamic Arabs whether they be men, women, children or the livestock of this savage group. I would agree with the far left Democrats in saying we should immediately depart Iraq, so long as we toss a dozen or so high yield nukes over our shoulders as we go with a vow that we will not spend one nickel to help them afterwards. Screw 'em. Then they can spend all their spare time cleaning it up rather than torturing our soldiers.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 9:41 AM Peppermint writes:

Derf

Thanks for coming by. I agree with most of what you said. I'm tired of us fighting half baked. A nuke in the proper place would send the msg and end this stuff. Then, they, the Islamists would be terrified of us instead of the other way around.

You would think that after 9/11 everyone would have gotten the message on how savage these people are. But, I guess it will take another attack and maybe that won't do it either. It defies logic.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 9:42 AM Peppermint writes:

davecat

Do you watch the Sopranos? I'm wondering if Tony gets killed in the last episode tonight.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 10:17 AM willibeaux writes:

Don Brianleone

So you gots a new nickname. JC gets the booby prize. Ah likes it. Maybe our Peppermint can work you and your "associates" in to the diary series wit' dem der bad motorcycles. Ah bet dat der Razor Tongue is better than Mack the knife. How 'bout it Pepp? Boy what a combination.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 10:59 AM SquiddyPopPerkyJean writes:

Braddyferd, Phil, etc.

Wow, almost 300 comments that I can't get to here, but I just want to add that I am also outraged that, for one, these awful things happened to our soldiers, and two, that it is treated in the media and by our politicians as nothing, while libs and Braddy whine that somehow WE are just as bad or worse than the terrorists.

BRADFORD, I didn't notice any reaction to our soldiers being killed and tortured like this? Do you care? Seriously, by your comments it seems you care more for the treatment of our enemies. Maybe you're just trying to assert some kind of intellectual enlightenment, but it really seems like you are missing the point.

Point being: We love our fellow Americans, we love our country, children and freedoms. And dang-it, when someone messes (I'm thinking of a stronger word here) with us like that, when faced with utter barbarism from the enemy, why would I give a &$*#% about them when my job is to protect my own? Do I want to protect my loved ones? Or is it more important to appear 'nice' to the rest of the world?

And again -- Have we been beheading or gouging out the eyes of anyone in Abu Graib (sp?) or Gitmo??? You can't actually say we've even come close to such hateful and violent behavior. If so, I've never seem the proof.

PASADENA PHIL, I like your responses to Braddy -- well, the couple I read so far:

BRADFORD SAID: "The key to defeating that kind of fanaticism is to make friends with the population so they're on your side, encourage the moderates, show them that being civilized and playing by the rules is a better way."

P PHIL SAID: Ok. You first. Give it a try. Bring a pouch for your head.

Couldn't have said it better myself! I mean, when dealing with a rattlesnake, you can't just tame it and leave it in the crib with your baby.

Ever seen the Nick Berg video? Horrifying, gave me nightmares. Seriously, does anyone actually believe we can negotiate and 'make friends' with this type of person? With people who load a car full of children, detonate it at a checkpoint full of US soldiers, while they run away and hide?

We can try peace and love all we want, but it will only make them despise us more as namby-pamby, weak, easy targets.

FACT: Islamofascists love death. Let's grant their fondest wishes. It's either them or us.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 11:01 AM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

You got some good ideas there. The Mafia and the Patriots. What a combo!
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 11:01 AM Nee writes:

Pepp, Willi, The DonBRian

Now, c'mon girrrl! You knoww if Ah's dressed lahk a pretty Southern Bale, Ah won't be cussin! Ah kin just say, "Thaat's Nahce!" (all the while holding my pretty little tongue, until they really anger me...) and then....
"Now, Y'all leeisten uup, ewwe baste-turds, I will not stand foe-ah such bullsheitt...y'all take yo-ah left-mahnded pansy assses and git own outta mah Patriut Kunn-tree fo-ah's ah open up a mighty big kay-an of Whoop asss!! Git, you weasly little Fuhkkers, git!"
Willi...I don't know if I have commented on as "neester"...but thanks for stopping by and herrassin' me...ah fe-uhl luvved!!
DonBrian, IS that you with the 8k+ worth of comments...See, I do know how to respect my elders..especially those who have access to horse heads!!!
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 11:07 AM Peppermint writes:

SquiddyPopPerkyJean

Excellent post. Your points nail it.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 11:35 AM BrianR writes:

Nee: Yep, that's me

with the 8k+ of comments.

It's why I DON'T have to worry about toll booths. I don't have time to go anywhere.

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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 11:52 AM Peppermint writes:

Nee

I'm glad you have respect for your elders such as Brian.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 12:25 PM RazorTongue writes:

Yepper, Pepper..

I am one evil Swedish woman. ;) Why do you think Raging Bunny adores me so much? *LOL*

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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 12:58 PM Raging Bunny writes:

All in good fun

Somehow I can actually picture the mob bosses going into action to beat out the libs...I mean, war and destruction of the cities means no more money right?

RT...Of course I adore you...just like you adore me for my level headed sweet temper.
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 1:34 PM Peppermint writes:

RB and RT

The two of you with purplegimp sends shivers up my spine thinking of what kind of trouble you all can get into. LOL
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Sunday, June, 10, 2007 3:50 PM Peppermint writes:

All

I have a new article posted "America Kills Bill".
Please feel free to add your opinions and comments if you like. I'm open to all debate even from non foul libs like Brad. No karen though.
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Monday, June, 11, 2007 1:09 AM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

For a split second I actually hoped that the title of your latest post meant a different Bill. A gimp can hope, right?
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Monday, June, 11, 2007 10:27 PM RazorTongue writes:

Peppermint

You have no idea! *Laughs in her best maniac manner.* We're a leathal combination..
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Monday, June, 11, 2007 10:35 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

World typo king checking in

Thought I'd take a break and see what my fellow haters are up to. Anyone serving drinks today?
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Monday, June, 11, 2007 11:13 PM Peppermint writes:

I don't know how

I missed your posts here. Guess I thought you were on the other article.

Purplegimp, I know JC thought it was about Slick willy too. LOL

Razor Tongue, I can only imagine what you are all like together. Knowing how wild PG is it makes my head spin with the 3 of you.

PPhil, uh,what would you like? It's on the house.
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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 12:11 PM The Crawfish writes:

I'll take....

a frozen margarita, no salt. Our work center hasn't had a/c for the past week.

Razor...you ain't the typo king. Lately I've had to hit the backspace button constantly because of fat fingering. Anyway, my wife is the head of the typo clan. Part of that's because of being a functional dyslexic, and the rest is south Louisiana and Houston area publik skools.
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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 12:18 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Margarita?

I see the amnesty crowd has gotten to ya, Crawfish.

The only good coming out of Houston is I-45 North to Dallas.
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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 2:55 PM The Crawfish writes:

JC

The amnesty bunch will NEVER get to me! I've been a margarita drinker ever since I went to college in San Antonio from 83-85.

Houston is almost as much of an anal orafice as N'awlins. The wife was born in N'awlins and graduated HS in Katy, TX.

Dallas ain't that great anymore, which is why I've switched my hometown allegiance to Ft Worth.
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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 3:48 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

I hear ya, Crawfish..

..I'm Here in the Mid-Cities in Fort Worth.

After Hurricane Katrina hit "N'awlins" and before Hurricane Rita hit Houston, I was talking to a friend of mine and I said,"The Almighty tried taking out New Orleans and they fled to Houston. Now He's going after them there!"

My friend replied,"Yea, I think He's going to 'pick up the spare'"
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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 4:13 PM Peppermint writes:

OK

Margaritas for everyone.

I won't be able to indulge as the last time I had margaritas, my neighbor and I tried to walk our dogs afterwards and the dogs had to walk us as we couldn't see our feet in front of us much less the sidewalk.

The next day was horrible as I suffered from a flu like ailment that to this day has been undiagnosed.

Rounds for all the Texans on the house. JC, you want the salt? Crawfish, how can you drink a margarita without that yummy salt?

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Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 5:54 PM RazorTongue writes:

Crawfish

I wasn't the one who called myself the Typo King. That was Pasadena Phil. *LOL*

And RB: Of course I adore your level headed sweet temper. *Ahem...* Been doing a little too much cheese again, have we? Told ya to stay away from it. *grins*

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Thursday, June, 14, 2007 12:02 PM The Crawfish writes:

'rita, no salt....

The sweet lime flavor and the te-killya give enough enjoyment without the salt...and I don't need it with my blood pressure anyway. I learned to drink ritas where they originated, San Antonio. They ain't a Mezzican drink. They're a Tex-Mex drink.

Oh, Pep..regarding you comment with Derf, I'd say the proper spot to show 'em we really mean business would be Mecca.

JC, which of the mid-cities are you in?

The dogs walkin' y'all....that's a good'un. Te-killya does funny things to people. A friend of mine who's an evangelical Christian, happily married (hubby a retired Jarhead, daughter babysat my kids, son acted like slightly older brother to my kids at their school), working on her evangelism degree from Liberty Univ...well she was with our squadron on an exercise one time (crappy island base in the Bahamas...NOT a tourist spot!). We were all at the base bar, and, well...she started getting toasted, mostly on tequila shots. We surprised the squdron when she wanted to swing dance and nobody would do it until I got up and we went off for a couple of songs. The tequila finally got to her a bit later. That's when it got shockingly funny. She looked at me and said (loud enough for about 20 others to hear), "I'm getting HORNY!" At that point, I cut her off. Too late. About 10 minutes later she was hoarking all over the bathroom. The next day, she was quite rough around the edges. Two days later, when she was almost back to normal, I told her what she announced. She immediately turned 14 shades of red.
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Thursday, June, 14, 2007 5:55 PM Peppermint writes:

Crawfish

Oh yeah, tequila does very funny things to ya.

Liked your story about the woman.

I had a similar experience where I went out with a bunch of guys I worked with on my first IT job. They were buying the rounds. First we drank beers for several hours, then we did tequila shots. Oh talk about toasted. The guys ended up having to carry me home. What a mess. Don't recall much about the next day. Just a blur.

Didn't know you had high blood pressure. Guess that does eliminate the salt. You're too young to have that problem.

I think JC lives in Ft. Worth or somewhere near there.

Mecca is a good place to start. LOL
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