Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons

Comment on: The Secular Conservative

7 Conservative Principles

8 Comments

Got the basics...

Something is missing though...not sure what. Maybe I'll come back and say more. Good list nevertheless.

Good list

I agree with everything you've written which are, I believe, good solid historically conservative views. If you have never read Thomas Sowell's " A Conflict of Visions",I think you would enjoy it, and his thoughts mirror yours. However, in that book he never refers to Conservative or Liberal, but rather "Constrained" or "Unconstrained" views of man.

Since I would disappoint you by not bringing it up [LOL], by obviously not mentioning religion, or the the conservative social values associated with it [i.e. traditional marriage, anti-abortion]you have left out what some would consider fundamental belief and tenets of the movement. For that reason, your list is probably more indicative of Libertarianism than Conservatism. If you have never taken a look at Reason magazine, you should [ http://www.reason.com/ ]. I started out as a Libertarian at Columbia University and know where you are coming from. I just think that Conservatism has an almost mystical layer to it in its faith in God and Natural Laws that you are missing.

By the way, thanks for inviting me to take a look. I'd like to hear your thoughts on my comments as well.

There are still some gaps

An excellent way to make your point, by the way. It isn't only conservative "principles" that make the conservative, it's also conservative "values."

The two examples you offer (traditional marriage and anti-abortion) don't come naturally from the 7 principles I've collected, but they do come from conservative/traditional values, like promotion of the family and respect for life. Naturally we could continue the list of principles, or somehow incorporate values.

I've been working on an upcoming post discussing secular values, and I may be able to reconcile these ideas (we'll see). For example, I was raised in a Christian home and still have my Christian values, but I don't hold Christian beliefs.

Naturally, I think it's perfectly fine to be secular with Christian values, but will others think it's a contradiction?. Can I articulate it in a way that others can understand? One of the hardest arguments for secularists to articulate: what moral foundation do secularists rely on?

It's not an easy one.

-tsc

FOUNDATIONS

There is something America has lost that most Americans are totally unaware of that I would like to add to what you have stated. This does not take away anything, but it is "The True America" that does not exist today.

What you shared is Political Science 101: about ten steps ahead of a lot of Americans. But what you shared does a good job covering the bases of what our founding fathers covered. But there is something that is not there that the founding father did have with them. What they established back then was something that the colonist and themselves had been living by for 200 yrs. It is Natural Law Philosophy. This idea they lived their lives by in government, school, the public place, and at home on a daily basis was so important to their survival, they went to war with the Brits over it. They established it as the law of the land when they wrote it into the FIRST paragraph of the Declaration of Independence.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which

"THE LAWS OF NATURE AND OF NATURE'S GOD"

entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

.
I have a detailed article on this on my blog, but the bottom line here with those eight words that I marked out declares that the Holy Scripture are to be used to establish, define, interpret, and teach law!

The American souls of the generations of the 20th century have been raped and ravished by the lies of an anti-American socialist order.

In simple terms 'The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God' represented to our founding fathers "ABSOLUTES" that were unchangable, and unrefutable. They won their battle against the Brits, and their faith remained law!

What are one of the fruits of the 20th century anti-American socialists?

"SECULAR CONSERVATIVES"

ONE: EQUALITY

We probably wouldn’t be talking about equality at all if Jefferson had not written that damnable phrase about "all men being created (by our Creator) equal"

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Government, under the Declaration, becomes the agent of the Transcendental Moral Code here on earth. It is governments’ job to immanentize God’s morality.

But there is a practical question. How do we go about it in this specific time and place: The United States between the 18th and 21st centuries?

Disagreements About Equality

Jefferson’s words in the Declaration could be accepted and taken literally. Liberals have tended to do so. Conservative Willmoore Kendall denied that the founding fathers intended to make equality a goal for the government. Other conservatives, such as Eastland and Bennett try to get around a literal acceptance of the Declaration by bringing in additional material.

Conservatives Forced To Address Equality

Equality and morality became entwined so that conservatives were forced to address whether slavery and discrimination were immoral. Under pressure conservatives were forced to come up with a way to deal with a call for equality within the secular world of the United States between the 18th and 21st centuries.

Make no mistake, Equality of Opportunity is secular, not Transcendental. The debate about the morality of slavery and discrimination was a secular debate. People struggled with the issue of how to take God’s Transcendental and objective equality and immanentize it into our secular world.

The Ensuing Debate

What does God-created equality mean in our secular and profane world? Harry Jaffa defines the equality of man in the inbetweenness of our souls: lesser than angels and greater than the beasts.

…human freedom depends upon the recognition of an order that man himself does not create. Man is not free to disregard the hierarchy of souls in nature….all our liberties rest upon the objective fact of the specific difference of the human soul from subhuman souls….

Jaffa takes Jefferson’s words literally and believes that equality is the fundamental principle of the United States as a nation. His view naturally nationalizes the pursuit of equality as a goal.

Willmoore Kendall, says "whoa," "hold on." The founders never intended equality to be a goal of the government. He points out that the word equality is not found in the Constitution. He says also, in an eloquent and long passage that the word equality in the Declaration is not so straight forward as Jaffa believes.

To some [of the Founding Fathers] the words no doubt meant merely that all men were created equal in the eyes of God. To some they no doubt meant merely that all men were created with an equal claim to justice under the existing law [our emphasis]. For some they no doubt expressed the hope, though merely the hope, that the republic about to be formed would be that land, the first land of all lands ever and anywhere, in which men would become equal, that is achieve the equality of which humble and disadvantaged men have often dreamt dreams that other men have called Utopian. To some the words no doubt meant merely the hope that America would be a land in which men would be anyhow more equal than elsewhere….To some the words no doubt meant the hope that the new republic would be one in which men - well, white men, and male men only, not female men, for no one had yet thought of going in for that sort of thing - would cast equal votes in at least some elections for public office. To some they may have meant - that is all I can say because I find no evidence of it - the hope that America would be a land in which government, political authority, would take steps to make men equal….because that is what the words have come, in the fullness of time, to mean to some amongst us, some even of the most learned amongst us. [Buckley and Kesler, Page 75]

Taken literally, Jefferson’s declaration that government was instituted to secure equality among men supports the last of the possibilities that Kendall lists, that:

…the hope that America would be a land in which government, political authority, would take steps to make men equal…

In response to Kendall, Harry Jaffa cites Lincoln’s understanding of equality as expressed in the Gettysburg Address and declares that equality is and always has been the central virtue of our government.

Eastland and Bennett also bring Lincoln into the debate and claim that both Lincoln and Jefferson believed that man’s equality lies in the equal possession by all men of a moral faculty. This is their way of evading taking the Declaration literally.

Lincoln, they say, viewed man’s moral faculty as the highest of man’s God-given attributes.

…the way in which men are equal [is] in regard to their moral faculty….which makes man…capable, therefore, of self-government and of consenting to social obligation [ed. Being a good citizen of the State].

Eastland and Bennett thereby shift equality from a governmental obligation to an individual obligation. They open the door to individual moral failure and to the idea that people get what they deserve based on how well or ill they employ their moral faculty. Pretty slick. They’ve changed the subject.

In the meantime Kendall is replying to Jaffa. Kendall says that the Gettysburg Address:

…made the victory of the Union armies the occasion for an official transformation of our constitutional, Conservative revolutionary past, into a sanction for a Radical-Liberal revolutionary future.

Kendall was defending state’s rights. He consistently emphasized that the right of the individual states to pass laws consistent with their local culture was more important that passing laws that supported the dignity of all men. As long as individuals were treated equally under existing law, whether the law was good or bad, the state was upholding the due process clause of the 14th amendment.

Equality of Outcomes Or Equality Of Opportunity?

How do we get from an equality of souls mandated by God to the contention that equality in the profane world consists of equality of opportunity?

The answer is that conservatives believe that inequality is a necessary condition to a stable society; that God understands this and made people unequal. Conservatives fear the effects on society of what they call leveling.

The Declaration (and the idea that all men are created equal) is a problem for conservatives because it presents a second and competing idea about God’s real intentions.

Conflict With Democracy

Conservatives’ response has been to emphasize the inequality that exists in men and society and to say that this is God’s real intention.

But in addition to the question about God’s real intentions - equality or inequality of men - there is another ideological conflict specific to the values of democracy. Implicit in the idea of democracy is the elimination of all artificial barriers in law and custom which deny or inhibit the ability of individuals to exercise what talents God has given them. Slavery and discrimination are contrary to the conditions for democracy.

For the liberal a democratization of social, economic and political ownership is a necessary condition for democracy.

Conservatives counter liberal democracy with the free market, claiming that the free market has the ability to distribute social, economic and political ownership according to the distribution of character in the United States and the distribution of character is a consequence of individual moral choice.

The removal of artificial barriers such as slavery and discrimination, conservatives maintain, gives individuals the opportunity to compete with each other for their chosen objectives according to their God-given talents.

The conservative verdict is that God prefers inequality within a democracy, derived from his unequally bestowed God-given talents.

God-Given Sinfulness

In the conservative narrative God gives talents. As we’ve seen, various conservatives acknowledge that God also gives men less praiseworthy attributes with which to compete in the free market.

As M. Stanton Evans points out, it is utopian to believe that the free market distributes consequences only according to good character.

Liberals are concerned not with "Equality of Outcomes" as conservatives claim, but with the barriers that are continually put back into place because of man’s sinful nature.

George Will has a cautionary observation for conservatives to consider.

Conservatives rightly stress equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcomes. Conservatives are, therefore, fond of the metaphor of a footrace: All citizens should be roughly equal at the starting line of the race of life. But much that we have learned and continue to learn - and we are learning a lot - about early-childhood development suggests that "equality of opportunity’ is a much more complicated matter than most conservatives can comfortably acknowledge. Prenatal care…infant stimulation, childhood nutrition and especially home environment - all these and other influences affect the competence of a young "runner" as he or she approaches the academic hurdles that so heavily influence social outcomes in America….surely it is indisputable that "equality of opportunity" can be enhanced by various forms of state action. [George Will, A Conservative Welfare State]

Will acknowledges that God-given talents are influenced by the society into which they are born, i.e., the specific time and place of an individual’s birth and existence.

Proud Lib Missed it

With all those words about barriers and sinful natures, he somehow doesn't understand the concept of "equal opportunity vs. equal outcome." Slavery, segregation, etc were immoral because they restricted the rights of individuals, thus preventing equal opportunity. Once abolished, we have no one to blame for inequality but the "victims" themselves.

Which brings me to another point. Leftists decry inequality, but seem scarringly blind to the rampant inequality that exists in other nations, where REAL poverty exists, not the Poverty Lite, American Style where the "poor" can go get a job at any McDonalds in the state, and have cars, TV's, etc... I've been to countries where people live in dirt floored homes, and eat ketchup packets diluted with water for nourishment. Those countries are a direct result of lack of freedom, the abandonment of the principles you explain in your post.

Holy cow PL!

Did you cut and paste from your book again? Perhaps you should try to understand the medium (e.g. blog) by keeping your comments brief and concise... and did you really use an academic citation? You must be a liberal arts professor from a small public university.

Anyway, LibertyBob nailed it: you haven't grasped the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

Example
Equality of opportunity = The government ensures that there are no legal obstacles preventing black man from entering college.

Equality of outcome = The government ensures 12% of all college students are black.

I'd prefer the former; you the latter.

-tsc

Conservatism or profiteering?

These sound less like what I think of as conservative principles than the principles that tend to benefit big business. What's good for big business is not by default conservative, nor is what is conservative necessarily the most lucrative for corporate America.

Genuine conservatism has to do with the preservation of a traditional way of life. In times when principles like equality of opportunity, flat taxation, free trade, and even limited government threaten that way of life, it hardly seems conservative to insist on their observance.