Time to Call It

I am commenting on the objections raised by various Townhall members, posters, and columnists. Too much of what I read was almost a knee jerk reaction to the outrage of what Imus said and the invplvement of Jesse and Al, in particular Al. The conversation quickly turned from what Imus said on his show, and his history of making such statements in the past about a variety of different groups of people to the calls for Imus's job. Calls that were not only demanded by Al and Jesse, bu also by employees at both MSNBC and CBS, along with the NABJ. I don't think that this one incident was what this is all about, but of a career of a man that has existed on his mean spirited and nasty comments for years; a man who hired a producer to "tell n*gger jokes" on his show.

As for Al not going after rappers, and some other comments about the broader black community not going after them as well, I think you are only going to see that issue as you wish to see it. I provided links where Al specifically targeted and critcised rappers for their lyrics...and these were statements from years ago, mind you...but you seem to be locked into a mentatlity that these words mean nothing.

That is one of the prime problems that we conservatives have, and it is one that we are constantly criticising liberals for. We lock into our minds what a person is and nothing can change that perception. They look at Rush Limbaugh, for example, and see a racist, bigot, sexist, homophobe and nothing will change that; whatever he says will be heard through that filter. We do it to Al sharpton; even when he is right we will not accept it and will only view him through the prism of his being a "race p*mp". Rush isn't always wrong, and neither is Sharpton. You may not like him, you may feel that he has a lot to answer for (as do I) but that does not mean that when he called Don Imus's statements racist and sexist that they were not so. Be careful that you do not allow yourself to be blinded to simple truths becasue you do not like the messanger that tells them to you.

Dear Flagwaver: Thanks for visiting my blog and commending me for my article(s) on Imus and the Rutgers Women's Basketball Team. I hope your readers (and you have many!) will visit my blog and, if they like it, return often. I'll put up a link up for Calling a Spade (funny title, BTW) and I hope you'll do the same for mine: Campaign2008Victory. I love visitors.

http://www.camp2008victory.townhall.com

I'd be very interested in working with you to promote The Crusade for Pennsyvlania, whose goals I will be spelling out on the blog. It's essentially the crusdade for any state, including NC, to elect decent (no Mark Foleys, please) people who are conservative and love this country AND ITS PEOPLE.

I spent months working on the Diana Lynn Irey campaign against John Murtha, and I don't regret a minute I devoted or a dime I spent. If anybody wants to see what Diana is doing, check out http://www.irey.com. She's a keeper, and she showed people a lot about "nationalizing" a congressional campaign.

Flag, stay in touch. You're quite a find.

steve maloney
ambridge, pa
The Crusade for Pennsylvania

I don't think I was making excuses for Mr Imus.If I was I was wrong.There is no excuse for treating a fellow human that way.My point was about you saying that the rappers saying the same as Don Imus was different and saying that after people like Snoop Dogg was done being an entertainer he becomes the good guy Mr Broadus taking care of his children . The Detroit News had a picture of him with this caption:

Today's Celebrity News Buzz
04/13/2007

Rapper Snoop Dogg, center, arrives at a courthouse Wednesday, April 11, 2007, in Pasadena, Calif. Snoop Dogg pleaded no contest to felony gun and drug charges Wednesday.The 35-year-old rapper, born Cordozar Calvin Broadus Jr., agreed to five years' probation and 800 hours of community service. He faced charges of gun possession by a felon and sale or transportation of marijuana.

Here is a good article about the issue:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009946

Thanks for the discussion ..I'm not trying to be disrespectful , JDW

I saw that too, and was planning to comment on it but you beat me to it. Boy, Snoop really made me look bad by including him, huh?

But my broader point is that I see these guys the same way I view actors...they play a role then go home to the family and their real lives. I still think that what Imus said on his show was different from what rappers say on records. It is not any less offensive or objectionable on a record, but the context is certainly different.

It looks like we both continue to blindly describe the same elephant. I have a post up that you'll likely disagree with, but given that I've given your side a fair read, perhaps you could return the favor. We just don't seem to see it the same way on this one my friend.

I agree with most of what you say. Except the part about rappers and Imus being different. I'll give you that most rappers are probably playing a part. But I'm willing to bet Imus is as well. Most radio jocks do. Most say they are in the entertainment business, though most of the audience for both rappers and radio jocks are not going get that it's just entertainment. Besides which, I'm not willing to give either an "It's just entertainment" pass. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Playing the wrong side of the fence for money seems almost worse. As for Imus himself, you're right. If he's looking to see who to blame, all he has to do is look in a mirror. By the way, I have Mark Steyn's take on it on my blog, if you're interested.

I'd love to see your take on V Tech. I don't know if there is a spade to be called, but I think your writing style would do that topic justice.

Scottie, i gues we just have to agree to disagree on some aspects of this topic, but i think that we agree on the most important thing: this type of language is not something we want to hear regardless of who says it. The contet doesn't really matter if the worsd are hurtful to people.

Wulf, I have been thinking about doing the VaTech blog, but i am just waiting a bit to see how the story goes. I may link it up with coverage of the Imus situation, because I have some big problems how both are being viewed on both sides of tha aisle...so there is a sapde to call here.

I am also thinking of doing an article to defend hip hop a bit. It is not all as bad as the lyrics that we hear recited on radio and TV, and I think that some are losing sight of the fact that the music isn't all one thng or the other. I should have it up late in the week...coming up hard on exam time, ya know!

I'm with Cyne in that I generally agree with you but don't really see adistinction between Imus and rappers. Or CNN or PMSNBC for that matter. Nor would I refer to the product of any of these as art, but that's just me.

I also find it interesting that the worst and most racially charged word, the j-word, rates not even a passing mention. Maybe it's become passé and become less common? That wouldn't be a bad thing. I think the only time I've ever actually heard that word used was in the Police Academy movie, which is over 20 years old.

I an heartened by those points on which we agree. And I honor our disagreements even more. Thank you for joining the discussion over at the Heartland. We at least prove you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Just saw this on TH homepage:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ArmstrongWilliams/2007/04/23/its_hard_out_here_for_a_pimp

It's Armstrong Williams talking about Imus and rap.

you read my mind, I was about to recommend this to Flag. This is almost becoming a habit.

But with a bit of a difference. Flag, I wanted to mention several long comments by a poster named Edward. They are long, but I found a lot of interesting things in there, inclding a more apples to apples comparison of musical styles, essentially asking why is it that rap music (i.e. primarily associated with blacks) is mysoginistic, violent and drug-related it is bad and condemned loud (by a largely white media) and often but the same is not true for rock (i.e. primarily white). Along that vein was a very interesting story about a reason why Marilyn Manson did (does?) what he did, namely to see how much it would take for a white performer to garner as much condemnation as a black one (the answer, quite a bit).

If you've the time and interest to read all that, I'd be curious to hear your take on it.

great minds think alike.

By the way, the column by Herman Cain today was on this subject as well.

Its always educational to read your stuff. You remid me a bit of William Raspberry. He had a knack for bringing more light than heat into his take on a situation, so even when i disagreed with him, i gave his views close attention, as representing the views of many positive thinking black Americans. He was a solid supporter of Jesse J for president. I disagreed, but noted his support. I considered it a wishful thinking flaw. We all have them. You are doubtless much better in seeing mine than i am, and you provide a very useful view. With Scottie and Cynewulf, i see no difference between Imus and any rapper than makes money out of being a shock jock. They pander to base emotions, racism,cruelty and specialize in cheap shots. Like the Dixie Chicks, these folks are protected by the constitution to speak, but not immune to other results and accountability. CBS had a perfect right to fire Imus. Rappers make a lot of money for their producers. Should they do/say something to end that, they also would be fired. Since it seems Rosie O has got the ax, i'd like to see that happen, as a move toward a more gentile culture. Your points that even a rascal can say something true is not just valid, but important. Al Sharpton comes close to making an ad hominem disagreement tempting, but even he can't make it valid.

Thanks for the input on the discussion. I was going to write a piece reflecting that same sentiment of what does a rockerhave to do tobe treated the same as a rapper, but I decided against it. Your comments let me kow that I'm not the only one thinking about that. And if you don't mind, let me know what thread Edward posted on; it seems like it would be a good read.

And gently99, thanks for holding the impulse to light in on Sharpton in check; it is just way too easy to change the subject from what is being said to who is saying it! Like I said before, Al has a lot of baggage with him, but on this issue he was correct. BTW, I have a post up about hip-hop you might find interesting. Check it out and gimme some feedback on it!

Edward posted in the Armstrong Williams column that Cyne linked to above.