Status Quo Politics

Wow flag! that was outstanding and dead on accurate. Truly a brilliant piece!

So now what my friend? do we throw everything to the wind to try what ever is new? Or do we try to educate people and change the tone in the electorate?

Keep the faith!

We try to educate the electorate, that's what we do! The reason the politicians are able to get away with this same strategy in election after election is because they know that the voters aren't paying close attention. Most voters only start to pay any attention to a presidential election in the last 2 months of the cycle, and that is because they can't escape the ads that they are bombarded with. And they gather most of their information from those ads, or television news reports which is usually just a way to reinforce their inhernt political biases.

The only way to combat tis is for the voters to know the real records of their representatives, to keep up with what is going on in DC, and to know enough to avoid the inevitable attempts that the politicians make to snow them!

Difficult though it may be that is in fact what's needed.

A heightened sense of political awareness.

But then you know I know that!

Keep the faith!

I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but overall really well done and stated.

I think people really *don't* want bipartisanship; I know I don't, as all that really means is conservatism yielding to liberalism.

Actually, I like gridlock. I want it to be as difficult as possible to pass new legislation. We've got more than enough as it is, and government seems to be an oppressive and ever-present aspect of everything we say and do.

Negative campaigning is an old American tradition going all the way back to the Founders. It doesn't get more negative than the Burr-Hamilton feud.

Congresscritters used to whack each other on the noggin on the floors of Congress. Man, I'd have loved to have seen that! Maybe even got a lick or two in myself!

I certainly understand your tone of disgust. I share it 100%!

Flagwaver,

Who's this "we" to which you refer? Are you a "we"? I'm certainly not. And I want MORE "negative campaigning", not less. LESS bipatisanship, not more.

Who's this "all" to which you refer? I hate the House as a whole (hole?), but appreciate the heck outa my congressman John J. Jimmy Duncan of Tennessee's 2nd district. There are two dozen other House members for whom I'd love to cast a vote. Of course, that leaves some 400 that I'd love to dump.
There are about 3-5 senators for whom I'd love to vote, none from Tennessee (both Republicans). Of course that leaves 95-ish to dump.

There's those who work for a living and those who vote for a living. There's more of the latter.

Just posted a new comment regarding this whole mess in teh context of the election and who provides a better way to heighten awareness of conservative principle.

Keep the faith!

I'm just pointing out what people always claim they want from politicians, yet they will gladly settle for what they always get. As fo rme, I don't care about "negative ads", because if you didn't have them you wouldn't know anything about the candidates. Every scurrilous attack brings out a response, and it is in those responses a lot of times that the public will start to get a sense of the reality of the candidates.

As for gridlock, I don't like it...but I can live with it. What I would like to see is the national Congress run like our General Assembly here in NC (and elsewhere I'm sure) which is a strictly part-time body. There are certain times that the Assembly meets and the rest of the time the reps are at home doing their real jobs and staying in touch with the people who elected them in the first place!

I am not a we, but i am part of "We the People", who are the people that the government is supposed to serve. And I am a part of the "we" that has claimed to want so much political comity, when what I really want is political bareknuckle fighting. I just stopped pretending that I want all these highminded debates, when what I really want is to see the candidates strip each other bare before the public, so that we can make a really informed decision.

And while I may not respect some members of the House, I hold the institution in great esteem; I think the Founders knew what they were doing in setting things up the way they did. The House allows us to sometimes indulge our momentary political passions, while the Senate does not allow fads and phenomenons to make it into law (at least not usually).

People say one thing, and do another. Human nature, I suppose.

"Part-time Assembly"... from your lips to God's ears. That's what was originally envisioned by the Founders, not this gaggle of professional hacks we have now.

New post up if you are interested.

keep the faith!

although I wouldn't necessarily hold the politicians quite so blameless, in the sense that I think they have gotten pretty good at creating wants among the electorate, or at least their constituencies. As does the media, on its own or in conjunction with politicians. Just look at the sell job they're doing on the bailout. Who wants to bet it happens, despite the people having made quite clear what they want. Same with amnesty; I doubt it's so much a matter of if, but when.

And while I do wish people would take far more interest in politics, not even political junkies like us can come close to keeping track of everything. The problem is, of course, the size of government. I'm given to understand that even most Congressmen or Senators don't read the text of bills before voting on or even sponsoring them. They're just too long and there's too many of them. No wonder so many things can get slipped into bills. And if the politicians themselves can't be bothered, how much can you expect from the average Joe?

When it comes to Palin, although I like her that doesn't mean she's immune to criticism. Having said that, I also read that Parker column and wondered where the bleep did that come from? I couldn't really fathom why she chose the criticisms she did, they didn't seem terribly relevant or important, then to recommend dumping her from the ticket? That was just bizarre.

Yeah, Parker rewally got flamed on the boards for that one! If you want to question her qualifications, that's fine so long as you actually question her qualifications. And the last time I checked we weren't about to elect the Orator in Chief and the Vice Orator, so smoothness in interviews is not a disqualifier.

As for the electorate, we can't know everything that is going on, but we can pay attention to some of the major issues. But you're right that the size of government and the length of bills allows way too much to slip through. Look at the bailout proposal; it grew from about ten pages to several hundred in a matter of days! No one can read all and digest all of that legalese, yet this is how we pass laws! Amazing!

I hate to say this, but I agree with alot of your points Flag. I loved how you outlined alot of the things Americans supposedly want. You have to love our National schizophrenia!!

As for politicians, you are dead on. I know several local and a few national politicians who all share the same core values of determination, adaptibility, and intelligence. Again, these are all Democrats, as seen by the mention of intelligence. LOL! Yet, all politicians are in this game to stay in, not fold. They will do whatever it takes to hold on to that power that so attracts so many to politics in the first place. Are they corrupt by nature? Not all. ADo they no how to play people like a fiddle? Hell yes.

Now where I disagree with you is on Mrs. Palin. Personally, I believe that:

1) She was not the best qualified person to be McCain's VP selection

2) She is not only unprepared to be POTUS, but to answer simple questions from reporters

3) She is able to distinguish her relgious views/dogma with the political realities of a diverse America

4) She is GWB in lipstick

Now, you attacked Kathleen Parker's column, primarily her premise that Palin drop out of the race. I understand that. However, you seem to have missed hers along with David Brooks, David Frum, George Will, Fareed Zakaria etc conclusion that this woman is totally unqualified to be POTUS. They weren't saying that her interviews are the main reason why she is unfit. They were expressing their opinion that these interviews reinforc/help confirm their hypothesis.

The thing is that I don't care who those writers think is qualified or unqualified; they don't get to make those decisions, John McCain does...and ultimately the voters will decide whom they want in charge.

I don't feel up to going through another argument over the qualifications of the various candidates, but I do find it curious that this is the first time in my life that so much attention was paid to the VP candidate. VP candidates are not chosen on the basis of being ready to be President, they are chosen to promote the candidacy of the person at the top of the ticket. They are chosen to deliver some voting bloc, some voting area, to shore up the Presidential candidate's weaknesses, or to strengthen the commitment of the base. In those areas Gov. Pain has been just what McCain needed, because she has energized the grassroots of the Party base in a way that no one else could have. As for her being GWB in lipstick, I don't see it. She has governed way more conservatively than Dubya has in the White House or in Austin, which is why she has excited the conservative base of the Party. She is not running for President and if McCain wins she will get all the experience she needs. And I would rather have her than Joe Biden, who has never met a speech he wouldn't rip off or a gaffe he wouldn't walk into!

First off, I realize you don't feel like going through another debate over qualifications. I saw your last posting entitled "The Lost Cause" and the over 122 responses!!!! Damn is all I can saw!!!

"...but I do find it curious that this is the first time in my life that so much attention was paid to the VP candidate."

I disagree. I remember the uproar over another unqualified and brain dead cons nominee, Dan Qualye. Where is he now btw? I also remember the whole Geraldine Ferraro thing too back in 84. However I was 10 years old and was more interested in rockin my Art Monk Jersey, this girl named Shanae Brown, and passing the 5th grade with Sister Geri as my teacher...

"VP candidates are not chosen on the basis of being ready to be President,"

Actually, yes they are. Even McCain once understood this basic premise:

http://kdka.com/national/john.mccain.vice.2.690145.html?de tectflash=false

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cs_20080621_9379. php

"they are chosen to promote the candidacy of the person at the top of the ticket. They are chosen to deliver some voting bloc, some voting area, to shore up the Presidential candidate's weaknesses, or to strengthen the commitment of the base."

Yes they do. However, they are ALSO expected to be able to take over if something were to happen to the POTUS.

"In those areas Gov. Pain has been just what McCain needed, because she has energized the grassroots of the Party base in a way that no one else could have."

Yes the same people who voted for GWB 2X, believe in the Bible literally (flaws and all), are afraid of terrorists coming to attack them (even though they live in small midwestern/southern towns), are unable to deal with anyone/anything different than they are, and believe Ronald Reagan and Rush Limbaugh are Gods. Really says alot about your party doesn't it?

"As for her being GWB in lipstick, I don't see it."

Really Flag? Let's see, both were governors, both beleive they were anointed by God, both don't understand the simple concept of economics, both are/were unqualified, and both appeal to voters becuase they project the image of the everyday, Walmart shoppin', football watchin', beer drinkin' red blooded American. In short, both are bimbos.

"She has governed way more conservatively than Dubya has in the White House or in Austin, which is why she has excited the conservative base of the Party."

Umm so raising taxes, banning books, increasing spending dramatically, leaving boat loads of debt for future generations, and not respecting the separation of church and state is "being conservative". Oh wait, maybe your right!!!!

"She is not running for President and if McCain wins she will get all the experience she needs."

Really? Do you actually beleive that this woman is qualified to be POTUS Flag? Seriously?

"And I would rather have her than Joe Biden, who has never met a speech he wouldn't rip off or a gaffe he wouldn't walk into!"

Really? This is coming from a supporter of GWB, who can't make a speech without making a gaffe or Sarah Plain, who can see Russia from her house!!!!!!!!!!

Flag, your starting to scare me now dude.

When have Gov. Palin or Dubya ever said they were annointed by God to do the jobs they have done? And what books has Gov. Palin or Dubya banned in their time as Gov. and President? The record shows that then-Mayor Palin never tried to "ban" any books, and many of the books she allegedly tried to "ban" had not even been published at the time, including the first four "Harry Potter" novels!(http://factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html).

And you're right that Gov. Palin raised taxes...she and the Legislature raised taxes on "Big Oil", which resulted in Alaska running a pretty good surplus in their state budget!(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html)

And the question is not whether or not Palin is qualified to be POTUS, because she is not running for that office. The VP slot is a either a training ground or a last stop for most politicians, and in her case it is a training ground. That is why Truman made sure that VP's are to be in on national security briefings, etc. so that no vP can be kept in the dark as he was when he served with FDR.

And Dubya may make some gramatical mistakes or malapropisms, but he has never told a man in a wheelchair to stand up for a crowd, nor has he ever plagiarized a paper or speech, nor has ever said that "you can't go into 7-11 unless you're an Indian", nor has he called any black candidate for high office "the first clean and articulate" black person to run for the office of President, nor has he claimed that terrorist fire forced his helicopter out of the air in Afghanistan, nor that he came under attack while in Iraq. Mispronuncing "nuclear" pales in comparison to those gaffes, insults, and outright lies.

One last thing, no VP in their first term has ever been ready to be President, except maybe in the early days of the Republic when the VP was the loser of the general election. Neither Walter Mondale, Geraldine Ferrarro, Al Gore,nor GHW Bush were ready to be President when they were first placed on the ticket. And if McCain loses, what does it matter? How many VP candidates do people generally remember that don't eventually run for President? The VP slot is important, but no one is voting for the bottom of the ticket!

Good Morning Flag. Hope you have a great day! I’m enjoying the start of my 4 day weekend. You have to love paid leave!!! LOL!

“When have Gov. Palin or Dubya ever said they were annointed by God to do the jobs they have done?“

http://www.slate.com/id/2106590/

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/02/sarah-pali n-iraq-war-gods-plan/

http://www.alternet.org/rights/100707/sarah_palin,_21st_cen tury_theocrat/

http://www.alternet.org/election08/99118/sarah_palin_linked _her_electoral_success_to_prayer_of_kenyan_witch_hunter/

“The record shows that then-Mayor Palin never tried to "ban" any books, and many of the books she allegedly tried to "ban" had not even been published at the time, including the first four "Harry Potter" novels!(http://factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html).”

Your fact check website (which I usually trust) hasn’t been updated since September 9th. In the last few weeks, we have learned:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/kranich

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html? _r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1221343324-tGxa66AkDRYq1tsNYpjoIw &pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

“And you're right that Gov. Palin raised taxes...she and the Legislature raised taxes on "Big Oil", which resulted in Alaska running a pretty good surplus in their state budget!(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html”

Yes Flag she did. I applaud her for applying a windfall profits tax on these oil companies. Yet it is funny that the GOP doesn’t want this to happen nationally. I wonder why? However, do you know the whole story about Sarah? As governor of Alaska, she has requested 31 earmarks worth $197.8 million for next year. As mayor of Wasilla, Palin regularly traveled to Washington to request earmarks. The city obtained funding for several projects, including a bus depot ($600,000) and a water and sewer project ($1.5 million), according to Taxpayers for Common Sense. She also left the town nearly $20 million in debt and raised the city sales tax by half a percent (she said the money was needed to support construction of an indoor ice rink and sports complex and a police dispatch center). What's more, she bungled the land acquisition, which meant the city ended up paying $1.7 million for the land instead of the planned $146,000.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/09/02/gov-sarah-palins- record-on-taxes-and-spending/

http://dwb.adn.com/news/alaska/matsu/story/9362341p-9276004 c.html


“And the question is not whether or not Palin is qualified to be POTUS, because she is not running for that office. The VP slot is a either a training ground or a last stop for most politicians, and in her case it is a training ground.”

But Flag, is the time and place in our history to have a VP in training to a 73 year old president? Again, is she ready on Day 1 to step in if something were to happen to McCain. What if McCain turns out to be the 21st Century William Henry Harrison? Will Palin be ready?

“That is why Truman made sure that VP's are to be in on national security briefings, etc. so that no vP can be kept in the dark as he was when he served with FDR.”

Well remember Truman had been vice president for only 82 days when President Roosevelt died!!! Again, what if this happens with McCain?

“And Dubya may make some gramatical mistakes or malapropisms,”

Correction: A WHOLE BUNCH OF MISTAKES. BTW, “gramatical” is spelled grammatical. LOL!

“…but he has never told a man in a wheelchair to stand up for a crowd, nor has he ever plagiarized a paper or speech, nor has ever said that "you can't go into 7-11 unless you're an Indian", nor has he called any black candidate for high office "the first clean and articulate" black person to run for the office of President, nor has he claimed that terrorist fire forced his helicopter out of the air in Afghanistan, nor that he came under attack while in Iraq.”

So you saying that these gaffes compare to the hundreds of mistakes made under the Bush Administration? Are you saying that the lying and bungling of the Occupation of Iraq, the over 4,000 Americans who have died because of this man’s incompetence, the current financial crisis, Hurricane Katrina, the Valerie Plame Affair and coverup, the trillions of dollars in new spending and unnecessary tax cuts, etc are not important and less than any gaffes Biden has made? Damn Flag, you sure are loyal to ya man GWB. What is his approval rating again?

BTW, what about Palin saying she doesn’t have to hire African Americans?

http://www.alternet.org/election08/100219/did_sarah_palin_r eally_say_she_wouldn't_hire_blacks/

http://www.alternet.org/rights/98915/what_privileges_do_mcc ain_and_palin_receive_because_they're_white/

“One last thing, no VP in their first term has ever been ready to be President, except maybe in the early days of the Republic when the VP was the loser of the general election.”

Yes and no. In the earlier days, yes. In modern days, yes indeed. Again, does LBJ ring a bell?

“ Neither Walter Mondale, Geraldine Ferrarro, Al Gore,nor GHW Bush were ready to be President when they were first placed on the ticket.”

I disagree. I believe that GHW Bush was prepared. He was war hero, successful businessman, a former Congressman who was on the House Ways and Means Committee, Ambassador to the United Nations, Envoy to China, and Director of Central Intelligence. Honestly, I believe he was prepared. Surprises you doesn’t it?

“And if McCain loses, what does it matter?”

Well you know I will be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I followed some of the links you provided and none of them show me any evidence of Sarah Palin or GWB claiming to be anointed by God. What I did see was a snarky piece that accused Palin of being a thoecrat...as if the left doesn't accuse EVERY religious conservative of being a theocrat...and a story that revealed that Palin actually prayed that the mission our troops were being sent on was a part of God's will. Imagine that! Why the gall of a Christian actually praying for the leaders of her nation to make good decisions, for the safety of the troops being sent into harm's way, and hoping that their mission was not contrary to the will of God!

On the VP front, the fact is that no matter who McCain picked as his running mate the left would have tried to tear them down. Romney would have been charged as an exteremist and possible Mormom theocrat; Huckabee would have been savaged as a backwoods rube who prays too much and is too religious, and Lieberman would have been assailed as a traitor to his Party (even though they abandoned him) and had his ethics and character challenged. That's the way politics works; if you are picking someone your opponents absolutely love, then you have made the wrong choice.

On GWB, I am not loyal to him, I simply don't have a lot of time to play "what if". In my opinion he was the better of the candidates in both of his elections (evidenced by the fact that he won both) and I do not regret voting for the person I felt was best for the job.

And I am glad that you like GHWB so much, and I am sure that all the great feelings you had for him were in evidence both times you voted for him, right?

"I followed some of the links you provided and none of them show me any evidence of Sarah Palin or GWB claiming to be anointed by God."

Here you go. Just click or copy the link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2106590/

"What I did see was a snarky piece that accused Palin of being a thoecrat...as if the left doesn't accuse EVERY religious conservative of being a theocrat"

Well the facts are there Flag.

"Why the gall of a Christian actually praying for the leaders of her nation to make good decisions, for the safety of the troops being sent into harm's way, and hoping that their mission was not contrary to the will of God!"

Flag, the problem is these people saying that their mission and their platofrm is the will of God. Again, when you claim a divine purpose behind a human decision/strategy, I and many others have a problem with that. I really wish that religion would stay out of politics. I am frankly sick of it! Wish these people would stop the fairy tales and grow up!

"On the VP front, the fact is that no matter who McCain picked as his running mate the left would have tried to tear them down."

Well duh. However, you don't concede that many of the criticisms are legitimate and real? Again, do you think this woman is qualified to lead this nation and the free world?

"That's the way politics works; if you are picking someone your opponents absolutely love, then you have made the wrong choice."

Well yeah. Did you see my latest post on my blog? I have a map of what the upcoming Obama/Biden win will look like.

"On GWB, I am not loyal to him,"

You sure have fooled me.

"In my opinion he was the better of the candidates in both of his elections (evidenced by the fact that he won both) and I do not regret voting for the person I felt was best for the job."

I understand that. My thing is that it has been proven (I think after his first 2 years) that the man was incompetent and not fit to be POTUS. However, Americans like yourself voted for the man again. I feel as if you all are responsible for this calamity we have seen. I know its unfair and probably wrong, but that's the way I feel. So I may continue to remind you of this as a way of "rubbing it in" and hoping you don't vote for McCain. I mean, you vote could put NC in Obama's column.

As a point of contrition for your voting for GWB 2x, you can wire transfer $10,000 to my daughter's college fund, wear a Santana Moss jersey for a week, and can send 5 homemade sweet-potato pies and a tub full of chitlins to my house. I think by that point we will be even..... LOL!!! One good thing about the South is the food. Well that may be the only thing!!!! Just kidding!! LMAO!!!

"And I am glad that you like GHWB so much, and I am sure that all the great feelings you had for him were in evidence both times you voted for him, right?"

Lol! Well in his first election try I was 14 years old so I wasn't able to vote........ and in 1992 I voted for Clinton. I think I made the right choice. Don't you agree? BTW, you can respect someone without endorsing their policies or opinion.

you agree with my last 2 posts Flag? No rebuttal.

Wow, I'm in shock.

I win. LOL!

Again, where is this evidence that Palin or Bush is a theocrat who wishes to impose ecclesiastical law on the Nation? Look, I am a Christian and I believe that my life is supposed to reflect glory onto God, and that I am supposed to be trying to do God's will in my life. I try to base my decisions on what I do, where I go, what I say...all of that on what is going to relect glory to God. If I go into politics, am I to check that at the door so as not to be accused of being a theocrat? And why is it that lberals so often claim to be Christians, yet are able to take off and put on their supposed "Christianity" as it suits their purposes? And why is it that people that try to actually live their beliefs at all times are constantly accused of trying to set up some Christianist Kingdom?

As for George Bush and your belief that we who voted for him are accountable for our "calamity" today, how very liberal of you! Thank you for informing me that I am personally responsible for every bad thing that has happened in America because i vored for George Bush! Maybe next time I should get into my time machine, jump forward, see what the end is going to be, and vote accordingly! Or maybe i should just vote in lockstep with every liberal, since liberal politicians never make mistakes! Yeah, that's it...don't actually vote for the person that I want to, but for the one someone else tells me to vote for! No study required, paying attention is no longer necessary, and I get to check my intellect at the door! That works just fine for me!

Now back to reality: that was not worthy of you. That is one of the dumbest things you have ever said to me, but if that's what you think...so be it. I am not trying to argue feelings, because that's an argument that can't be won. I'm through with this particular conversation.