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Comment on: Peppermints Place

Racism and Illegal Immigration

277 Comments
Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:32 PM Nee writes:

Amen

We owe them nothing...if anything, we should be giving rebates to those who scrimped and saved to get here legally. Pepp, it's the leftist mindset that connects illegal immigrants and racism...remember? It's that we owe the legal citizens of this Country respect. The left will never get that,as they support terrorists rights,too...
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:40 PM Peppermint writes:

Nee

You are so right. The left does support terrorists' rights, as if that even exists. Where are we, as a country going with this? It's insanity.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:43 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp: One nit to pick.

Excellent essay. My only quibble is you called them "illegal immigrants". My term of choice is "illegal aliens"; it's much more accurate.

The interesting thing is that when Simpson-Mazzoli was signed into law by Reagan we were promised that this was the ultimate solution to the problem -- it legalized and amnestied 3 million illegals. Reagan later called it the biggest mistake of his administration.

In the 20 years since then the illegal alien population has swelled by anywhere from 4 to 8 times as much, depending on the source.

There is no other rational way to describe it than as an "invasion" as you correctly did.

Further, there is not one thing "racist" about calling it the way it is. For too long the Left was able to stifle debate on this issue because far too many were afraid of being labelled as racist. Well, that apple has lost its polish, and people aren't falling for that ad hominem diversion anymore. Particularly when we have swarms of Latinos flooding the streets in huge demonstrations "demanding rights" to which they're not entitled, all the while waving Mexican flags.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! They're lucky the Black Helicopters weren't overhead dropping nets on the lot of them, as Lynne had suggested.

I could go on and on -- this is a real hot-button issue for me -- but that'll do for now.

After all, if I want to blog, I got my own place!

LOL
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:45 PM SLW writes:

I agree.

The Left calls us racists at the drop of a hat. We are always having to defend "our views" on keeping our country safe from their attacks that we are racists. When will this ever end?

BTW, I have a new blog up on polls, which ties into this subject.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:48 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

Powerful, Powerful article. You really hit the nail squarely on head this time. Racists? Horse pucky. When all of your male relatives on your maternal side joined the US Marine Corps and took an oath to uphold our Constitution (like I did when I joined the USAF), I'm sure they (and me) understood the meaning of Article IV, Section 4.
This whole mess of rights for Illegals is so much hog wash and most of our mealy mouth politicians on both sides of the aisle don't seem to be concerned or interested in the consequences. Are you going to post this anywhere else on Town Hall? Pepp!! You have my deepest admiration for telling it like it is.
God Bless you and your family and give my thanks to your relatives who served our great country.

PS I'm positive that my ancestors also came here legally. I just can't remember when.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:49 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Hope you don't mind the cut and paste

I just posted a couple of responses to commenter Bradley at Darvin Dowdy's blog Street Level (very good blog) who argues that anti-illegal immigration is motivated at the core to some extent by racistm. Here they are:

#1)I've noticed the racist accusation working its way through here and there and no one has really addressed this adequately. First of all, American culture is the greatest, most open and tolerant culture in the history of humanity and it works because we have a clear sense of who "we" are. This flood of illegal immigrants are coming in rejecting that "we", a sentiment being reinforced by a multicultural education system that teaches them that the dominant culture, us, is the oppressive culture. "We" are the enemy. Now we are in a position of facing charges of racism whenever "we" defend ourselves.

Second, immigration policy had always, until changed in the mid-sixties, been determined based on the needs of the country, not the interests of the immigrants. The world does not have a right to American citizenship. It is OUR culture and it is in OUR interests to defend and promote a culture that work for US. No one has a problem understanding that concept when it is turned around by 180 so what is the principle that exempts us from that basic right of survival?

Third, free societies cannot survive without a sense of shared ethos, that sense that "we just don't do that kind of thing around here." What we are breeding is not freedom but anarchy. Our actions are being circumscribed by what is "legal" rather than what is "right". If it is legal, who are you to say that I can't or shouldn't do it? Everyone is living right at the edge of legality and there are fewer and fewer intermediaries. Your seven-year-old points a banana at a classmate and gets arrested. That is not the sign of a healthy society. We have all been reduced to a state of perpetual irresponsible childhood. In a healthy free society, there a sense of right and wrong and we freely choose to do the right thing even when no one is looking. It is efficient. You don't need to spend money on locks, iron gates, walled boundaries, ammunition etc... When everyone is always looking for a loophole, the only profession that benefits is the lawyers. When there is no respect for law, you waste alot of resources and time of law enforcement. It wasn't always like this.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:49 PM Peppermint writes:

BrianR

Well, you go ahead and spout off all you want on this issue. I'm pretty fired up about it after being called a racist countless times over this issue when there is no racism involved, at least I have no personal racism going on over the issue.

This is a hot issue and I want to hear from everyone their thoughts.

I don't understand us getting labeled racists. It makes no sense to me.

You're right I should have used illegal "aliens" which is more correct.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:52 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Cut and paste: Part II

The primary responsibility of all living things is to survive. The fact that survival interests are threatened by outside interests that have a tendency to identified to specific races is not a trump card. Were we to be attacked by all-black Nigeria, it would not be racist to wage all-out war against them. Race neutrality is NOT the top of the pyramid of important criteria for survival. If you are attacked by even your own mother, you are expected to do what you have to do to survive including killing her if necessary. Is that a difficult concept? Racial tolerance is a noble objective but it is not all encompassing. People still tend to be tribal and provincial and nothing separates "us" from "them" more clearly than looking radically different. Our culture counts too and if "they" don't want to assimilate, then "they" don't want to be part of "our" culture and we don't have to take them in. If that troubles you, I don't know what to say.

I'll leave markers for Bradford to find this. Maybe he'll come over. The thread at Street Level was very good and I get the impression that Bradford is a sensible person.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:53 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

I hope that everyone will get into the discussion. I am so infuriated over being called a racist every time this issue gets brought up.

Illegal aliens do not have the right to come here and demand rights they don't even have. Why do they do this? Because they know the government will put up with it. But, the government is us. Just who of us Americans are putting up with this and sanctioning this is what I want to know.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:53 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo BrianR

Excellent post. Please read "Mexifornia". It's spreading all over the US of A. Scary Huh?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:54 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

I saw your post on DD's blog and I got inspired to open this subject up regarding the racism card that keeps getting thrown around by those on the left.
I don't understand it. I don't get why we are called racists for wanting to preserve our country.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 2:55 PM Peppermint writes:

Sandra

Why? Why does this keep getting thrown at us. If the left wants to shut up and shut us down on the subject what is their goal in that? Why does the left want this illegal immigration situation to keep going on?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:05 PM BrianR writes:

Wlli: yeah, I've heard it's

very good, and have ordered it from Amazon.

I can also recommend Bernard Goldberg's new book, "How the Left Lost Its Mind, and the Right Lost Its Nerve".

Touches on this issue well, among many others, and it's very funny and guaranteed to tick off absolutely everybody on the planet.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:06 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint

I think we all need a lesson on survival instincts. You have to keep in mind that most people get their cues on what is acceptable from watching panel shows. The absolutely worst thing to be labeled in modern society is racist. It is a fatal flaw. I cite a book called "The Camp Of The Saints" at my blog whose core premise is to follow that thinking to its logical conclusion. It is nice to have a wide circle of friends who protect each other but when that circle gets infiltrated by those who don't think you belong in your own circle, suddenly there is no "we". That some think the intruders have a right to do so is alarming. It is such a simple concept to demonstrate yet the fear of being labeled a racist prevents many people for seeing it for what it is. We all have to renew our faith in each other and resist the temptation to fear that most people are against us. Human nature never changes adn if we feel this way, you can be sure that most everybody else does to. Problem is that "we" don't get to decide who gets the microphones.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:07 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

"Our culture counts too and if "they" don't want to assimilate, then "they" don't want to be part of "our" culture and we don't have to take them in. If that troubles you, I don't know what to say."

I particularly like what you say in the above quote.

For myself, I live in an integrated part of town, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Arabs, Asians. We are all living together in my area with no problems. These people that live here are law abiding citizens who go to their jobs everyday and are not making any problems for people.

We all socialize together at our community pool. These people are not marching in the streets demanding special rights for anyone, just your ordinary citizens who came here wanting to make the best life they can for their families. They have joined the melting pot and are not working against the America.

So, living in such a diverse community as I do it really makes me see red to be labeled a racist.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:14 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

I don't think racism needs to even be an argument in this issue of protecting our borders and keeping out illegal aliens who think they have rights they don't have. What on earth does racism have to do with it?

How long can we operate under the burden of so many illegals in this country? What other country allows this?

Our borders are broken, our laws are broken, and we are supposed to shut up because it is racism? It doesn't even make any sense to me.

I don't even think in terms of race about the borders. We don't even know who all is crossing the borders and getting in here. How many AQ are here because of this? Nobody knows. That's a warm and fuzzy feeling.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:16 PM sgtmajorbrad writes:

Racist?

I'm often called that because of my anti-illegal immigration stance. I reply that I have never advocated the extermination or demise of any race, but if you really think so...I guess I'm willing to learn. This pretty much ends the conversation about racisim.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:18 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Yes, the right has lost its' nerve to openly discuss and call to task those that want us to shut up. We need to stand up for what we believe and stop allowing ourselves to be shut down. We've been bullied into staying quiet and we have to stop allowing ourselves to be bullied.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:20 PM Peppermint writes:

sgtmajorbrad

Well, I'm glad that works for you. I'll see what happens the next time when I repeat what you said.
Thanks for stopping by and adding your thoughts.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:24 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint: same here

I get steamed when I get called a racist. I play basketball on Wednesday nights with a group of about thirty people and there are only three white people among us. Most are Mexicans with a few Asians and blacks. I'm the token over-50 guy. Nothing breaks down racial barriers faster than playing team sports to win. We're just bunch of guys who play hard to have fun. We yell at each other from time to time but we leave it on the floor. Some of us are friends, some not. It has nothing to do with race.

I also live less than ten miles from Highland Park where there is a Mexican street gang (18th Street Gang) that is waging a war on blacks by killing at random and following up the murders with warnings for blacks to get out of town. I find that deeply disturbing and even more so that LA authorities don't seem to care and that the LA Times doesn't even report (but the NYT does).

Racism in this day and age is just an empty label. People are more afraid of the word than the reality. We live in the most tolerant society in the history of mankind and the very people and culture that made it happen are fighting for their very survival in their own culture. Something has to change.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:25 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp: Well said! Bravo!

Exactly right. Couldn't have said it better myself.

BTW, you know the Left resorts to all sorts of labels, "racist" merely being one, because they have absolutely no rational way to defend their policies so they have to resort to desperate tactics like ad homina to try to divert the conversation.

It's really simple. In the past, effective.

People have wised up. It doesn't work anymore, except among their own cheerleaders as a way of demonizing the opposition.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:26 PM SLW writes:

Peppermint:

Because it gets them voters. This issue always hurts the Republican Party.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:31 PM pineknot writes:

Pep

It's the same race card the liberals play all the
time. They play it all the time to keep us on the
defense. {See Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson}
Living in Texas, I can assure anyone that it is
an invasion that needs to be stopped. We have
more than enough domestic violence of our own in
America, rapes murder thefts etc. without letting
more come across our borders. We have to control
our borders and quit just talking about it. The
problem isn't just the 12 million? illegels already here, how about the next 12 million and
the 12 million after that.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 3:41 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

What's new?

Playing the "race card" is just one tactic the left uses in order to defend another segment of "society" called criminals.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 4:37 PM Sheila writes:

Pep

Great post...I made a similar comment over at davcatbone's...

It's like all issues with the dems. With the help of the MSM (the propaganda wing of the dem party), they label us racists on the illegal issue, and it helps the dems. On global warming they label us "not caring for the planet", and the dems win.

As long as the dems and the MSM are able to create the news, and validate their positions by demonizing the right, we will have the lies accepted as fact, and I don't see any changes unless we have our side setting the agenda, and having more favorable press. I don't think it's possible, unless we have more conservatives in the media, and in government.

That's one reason 08 is so critical. If we let the dem socialists win a larger majority in both houses, and the Wh as well, we won't have a prayer of changing the direction of the country...and having a rational solution to this problem, and all the others we face in this country...

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 4:37 PM Virginia Patriot writes:

Good Post Pep

We The People of the United States of America have the right to have our laws and borders respected and enforced!
The illegal aliens have the right to be deported to their country of origin.
The left knows the illegals will vote for more socialism. What they don't know is that their voters are just as opposed to amnesty as GOP voters. Less than 20% of each side of the aisle wants open borders and amnesty. Unfortunately, they are the ones with the power and money. Hopefully we will not act like sheep and re-elect any that try to shove this down our throats. The racism canard is what they percieve as their best weapon to stifle debate and cow us into submissive silent assent. Not working on me. Or many others from reading the posts on threads. We should be careful of what language we use.
Words Matter
If we are seen as anti-immigrant, we will lose, because everyone knows some or is one or two generations removed and generally Americans have been a welcoming people. We just want people to respect us, our country, our culture, our language and our laws. Illegal alien is the legal status of a citizen of another country who is here without documentation. It is illegal aliens not immigrants who are creating a problem. Immigrants get visas before entering. Illegal aliens prefer the term migrant, but do not have an open-ended right to migrate from their countries to ours. The debate must center on the willful disregard for the laws of this country.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 4:40 PM Virginia Patriot writes:

Pasadena Phil

Good posts. Glad you shared them here as well, I had seen them at DD's, but others may not have and they deserve wide distribution.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 6:13 PM BrianR writes:

Sandra: I'm not sure it does

hurt the GOP anymore, other than the ones who are going along with the "comprehensive" BS.

It's one of the reasons I thought we may hang onto the House last year, because they had the guts to kill the Senate bill. As a matter of fact, the only reason the Dimbulbs did take the House is that they recruited a bunch of Southern Dems who are hardliners on guns and border security to take them over the top.

Don't be looking for any amnesty plan to get by the House any time soon.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 6:24 PM davecatbone writes:

Pepp

All said here that needs to be said. Race card is a weapon of the Progressive culture, and illegal aliens represent a voter base that could keep them in power for decades. I agree with those who say this should be highlighted and focused as a National Security issue, an issue of law & order. Great post!
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:25 PM Peppermint writes:

To all

Thanks for all your comments.
Pinenot, you bring up another really good point, what about the 12 million coming next. Some estimates are that the real illegal alien total is more like 20 million.

Either way, you are dead right. If this keeps going this way, where does it stop? At what number do we stop? The more there are the more we hear the government tell us they can't round them all up. Another lie if you ask me.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:26 PM Peppermint writes:

I can't type out posts

to everyone today because I have carpal tunnel so bad today my left arm and hand keeps going numb and it's hard to type.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:29 PM Peppermint writes:

Here's a question

I want to throw out to all. If government is going to keep the borders open because they and big government want cheap labor, what happens to all of us? What happens when there are no more jobs. What about all of those who had jobs that are now being taken by illegals who work for slave wages and bad conditions?

What about this picture and where does it go? What happens?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:33 PM Peppermint writes:

I meant big

business in that last post. typo
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:42 PM BrianR writes:

Well, Pepp, to answer your question

That is, of course, one of the aspects of the issue.

Bush & Co's big justification is the illegals "do the jobs Americans won't do", which is frankly horespucky.

Those are jobs Americans won't do AT THE LOUSY WAGES OFFERED.

The same justification the Old South used to rationalize slavery, incidentally, which is an irony that seems to escape the the interests supporting the "comprehensive" approach.

Further, honest economists acknowledge the force exerted downward on the labor market on wages and benefits. Of course it's problematic. There used to be a hue and cry about exporting Ameerican jobs to foreign markets based on exactly that issue.

Now we're seriously contemplating IMPORTING the foreign cheap job markets.

It's insane, quite frankly.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 7:56 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Man Up Peppermint!

Carpal tunnel syndrome. I'm bald and you don't hear me complaining! Suck it up! You've got a job to do!
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 8:43 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

It seems that will happen. We'll be importing Chinese companies, but at what wages will these people be working at to compete?

I know people who have lost their jobs due to exporting them overseas. I know people who have lost their jobs because of illegals.

But, what about my question? What happens to us here with this job problem? Does this mean that all Americans will be pushed down into the poorer ranges because of this? It seems inevitable to me.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 8:44 PM Peppermint writes:

Phil

Now, I ask you what does your baldness, I mean what handicap is being bald? Huh! Are your nerves in your head being damaged? :-)
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 8:46 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

I'm not sayin'...

I'm just sayin'...
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 8:47 PM Arlo writes:

You go girl !

I am Arlo. I am the Evil White Man. I feel your irritation. My white leaders want to tell me what to think and what not to say and how to be. My woman tell me they are better then me. My black brothers say I owe them forever and must bow to there leave. My Mexican neighbors scream for a piece of the pie. You can be sure of one thing. As long as you got a wallet. They are going after it and the gov. will lock you up so they can stay in power. You are the majority and it is you they will have to keep down to remain in power. I wish all my white brothers and sisters luck. I pray for riots.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 8:57 PM Peppermint writes:

Arlo

Well, we probably will have riots sooner or later. How long can we Americans keep sucking it up and keeping it down. The anger and frustration are mounting among all of us.

And, it only gets worse. With PC we're told to shut up and not speak the truth. It's a colossal dysfunction. Don't talk, don't see, don't feel anything. It's like we have to sit here and be co-dependents in a biggest dysfunctional family there ever was.

I compare it to be in an alcoholic family where there is the don't speak the truth rule. So, while the family plunges into the gutter because dad is drinking away all the rent and food money, nobody says anything. We have to tiptoe around the drunk in the family. The drunk will beat you if you say what's wrong with the behavior. So everybody's shuts up.

Eventually everyone can no longer take it and the dam bursts and spills over with the anger.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:00 PM Peppermint writes:

Yo Phil

Just what is you sayin? Speak out dude. I'm typing away now through all the numbness. I miss keys and have to type over.I'm doing my duty.

I'm reporting for command.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:01 PM Bradford_ writes:

Pepp

"What happens to us here with this job problem? Does this mean that all Americans will be pushed down into the poorer ranges because of this? It seems inevitable to me."

I think you're right (we agree! perhaps the world will end!). This is exactly what will happen, and *is* happening all over America (and Europe too, btw).

BrianR calls it insane. Which it is. But for global capital, it makes perfect sense. Why pay an American decent living wages when you can employ someone peanuts to do the same job?

And for once, I find myself agreeing with Peppermint's grim vision of the future.


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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:09 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

So what is your suggestion on resolving this issue?

How do we stop the insanity if you agree?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:10 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

All right then!

I just want to make sure you're not just testing the waters for a big wuss-out! Carpal tunnel. Sounds like one of those government employee "disabilities". That's all I'm sayin'.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:13 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

Oh, you're just envious they don't have disability for baldness. Ha! Ha!

I rested it up. I'm doing a little better now than this afternoon. It was going completely numb. Ever try to type like that?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:14 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

Check your e-mail
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:19 PM Peppermint writes:

Yo Willi

Yeah? I got something from you about a half hour ago. Is that the one you refer to?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:20 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint

Yeah, well someday we'll be a entitled to special benefits too. It's a debilitating condition.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:20 PM Bradford_ writes:

I'll

stand by what I said yesterday on DD's blog:

Globalization is what drives the immigration problem. International capitalism needs those open borders and the free flow of cheap labor. And the only way for working people to have a voice in terms of forestalling this trend is for them to stick together and attack the source of the problem, not scapegoat the people who, given their circumstances, are making rational economic choices.

Illegal aliens are the symptom. Globalization, free trade, global corporations in search of cheap labor are the disease.

Elect candidates who fight for decent wages for American workers. Don't elect candidates who attack American working men and women and sell them out to corporations.

And don't shop at Wal-Mart.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:21 PM Peppermint writes:

Ok Folks

What do we do about the illegals swarming this country? What actions can we take and what needs to be done? Something needs to be done, something none of us have thought of yet to get the pols attention. What is it? How do we make ourselves loud and clear?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:23 PM Peppermint writes:

Phil

No doubt in my mind it will be on the disability list at some point. :-)
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:26 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

You make a good argument until you start in about "attacking" people who want jobs.

Nobody here has a problem with "legal" immigration. It is "illegal" immigration. And, illegals demanding rights in the streets of our country is insanity.

These people have no rights. The criminals that come across the border are wreaking havoc murdering, raping, and drug problems included. The jails are overflowing with them. Then they get sent back out on the streets to commit more crimes. These people have no right to be here. They are not here for jobs.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:29 PM Bradford_ writes:

You

misunderstood what I was saying. I said "don't elect candidates who attack American working men and women and sell them out to corporations" meaning exactly that. *American* workers.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:31 PM Peppermint writes:

btw Bradford

The new senator (democrat) Sherrod Brown is for open borders and amnesty. Did you know that?

So,how did he get elected? Did people in OH do any research on this guy before they pushed the lever for him? And, we already have job loss problems in OH worse than most states.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:32 PM Bradford_ writes:

I'm curious

There are what? 11, 12 million illegals in the US? What percentage of that number are here working jobs (albeit illegally)? what percentage are tagged for drug-related, gang-related criminal activity? Anyone know where I can track down that info?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:33 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

That's right. We need to elect people who will protect the American worker, but how many people are doing that? People need to start educating themselves and look at the records of these pols before they elect them.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:35 PM Bradford_ writes:

Pepp

yes, and Sherrod Brown is a Democrat, right? Both the Dems and the Repubs are alike on this issue. They're two wings of the same pro-globalist business party.

Unfortunately most people don't think of the international consequences of their statewide vote.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

http://www.congressandimmigration.com/The_Dark_Side_Index.htm

DD had this link on his site. This site provides a lot of really good info.

The crime statistics are not being tracked
appropriately, probably intentionally.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:41 PM Bradford_ writes:

Although Sherrod Brown

has written a book called _Myths of Free Trade: Why American Trade Policy Has Failed_. He opposed NAFTA and GATT. So actually Brown opposes free trade for all the reasons we've been talking about. Not sure about his stance on open borders.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:41 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

You are right in part, but not completely. Before the 2006 election the only entity holding back the amnesty bill was the Republican dominated House. Now, we are in worse trouble with the House being controlled by the dems who are all in favor of open borders and amnesty.

Everyone needs to look at specific records and specific issues to see what's what.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:44 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

Give me a few. I'm looking up his record now
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:45 PM Bradford_ writes:

Thanks

for the link.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:48 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgradesoverall.php3?District=OH&Category=0&Status=Recent&VIPID=642

Go to the above link and you see Brown's grade card on this issue.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:50 PM Peppermint writes:

Voinistink is even worse, Brad

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/testgrades.php3?District=OH&VIPID=618
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:51 PM Bradford_ writes:

Pepp

the NumbersUSA site looks like a great site for keeping track of how the politicos vote. Check out their analysis of Brown's record:

http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfile.php3?DistSend=OH&VIPID=642

His record's pretty mixed.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:52 PM Bradford_ writes:

Interestin'

stuff.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:53 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

Those of us in OH need to keep writing Voinistink and give him a piece of our minds. He stinks to high heaven on the immigration issue. If you look at his score card he flunks!

He needs to get voted out, but we need to elect a Senator who will support the people of OH, not illegal immigration and selling us out.

I got a letter from this stinker telling me he believes in amnesty and open borders. I wrote him back immediately on that and told him just what I thought about that.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:55 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

Yes his record is mixed. Bookmark that site and make yourself an account. Then you can send faxes free to your reps. They ask for donations only to help cover the costs.

I fax every week out of there. They notify you whenever this comes up.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:56 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

Here are two other really good sites that are working for us Americans.

http://www.grassfire.org
http://www.firesociety.org
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 9:59 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

And, I want you to know, that irregardless of their political status, repub or dem, I write and burn their ears over this issue. This crosses all party lines. I don't give anyone a pass on this including Bush.

When you get enough time, read through that entire link site from DD that I gave you. It's shocking and a real eye opener.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:05 PM Peppermint writes:

DD's link on crimes by illegal aliens:

In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.

· There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.

· 80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.

· Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that appears to be 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.

· In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.

· At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..

· 56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.

· Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

· Illegal aliens commit 1,172,036 or more crimes per year.

· Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population. The number could be as high as 4,380 murders per year which would be a rate that is 5.4 times representation.

· Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.

· There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.

· Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been previously deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.

· Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.

· In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.

· Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.

· The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.

· The crimes of the 270,000 incarcerated illegal aliens cost society as much as $432 Billion.

· The overall financial impact of illegal alien criminals currently walking the streets of America cost somewhere between $14.4 and $437 billion – PER YEAR.

Still think illegal immigration is a “victimless crime” and we don’t need to control our borders? Remember, about 60% of the crimes being committed are by illegal aliens who were previously deported.

Allowing our borders to be disregarded coupled with little national commitment about doing anything about it has resulted in growing mayhem by illegal alien criminals, not a “victimless crime.”

As the previous sections have detailed, the dark side of illegal immigration includes a lot of horrific crime being perpetrated by the hard core criminal element of the illegal alien population. In the cost-benefit tradeoff of tolerating illegal immigration, how much collateral damage are we willing to accept?

In tolerating illegal immigration, how many Americans do YOU accept being molested, raped and murdered each year to save ten cents on a head of lettuce?

This is just part of the report, a huge report, in the link supplied by DD. There are tons more of info at this site to be read for all interested.
Thanks to DD for the link and information. He does a lot of research on the issue.


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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:13 PM Peppermint writes:

Sheila

"With the help of the MSM (the propaganda wing of the dem party), they label us racists on the illegal issue, and it helps the dems. On global warming they label us "not caring for the planet", and the dems win."

I wanted to comment on your post earlier, but couldn't.

I have noticed the MSM being very much on the side of these illegals. I'm not sure what they get out of it. I suppose you're right, it's just another way to demonize the right in our country. But, are all the left for this illegal aliens to be running around?
I can't help but think they could not be wanting this either.

Who knows, maybe this is an issue that will bringus all back together again. The effects of illegals running amok effects everyone no matter what side of the fence you are on.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:15 PM Peppermint writes:

Sandra

Does this issue get the dems votes? Do the illegals vote in this country too? I have heard that they do vote, but I don't see how. I guess our voting process is broken down too. This problem is exponential.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:19 PM Peppermint writes:

VaPatriot

"The debate must center on the willful disregard for the laws of this country."

You summed it up all quite nicely in your last sentence. It must be about our laws. We need to keep our laws enforced and obeyed. What do we have but anarchy if not?

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:23 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Bradford

Two years ago Bear Stearns issued a report that estimated the number of illegal immigrants in America to be at least 20 million. They arrived at that number mainly on the argument that the US government admitted to a figure TWO YEARS AGO of around 10-12 million and that Bear Stearns had found that the government intentionally underaccounts for them by half mainly by actively suppressing the ability of agencies to keep track of the numbers. (Special order 40 in LA for example). It is not outrageous to be claiming that the actual number could be 25-30 million or even higher. I got an e-mail from I believe it was firefox or numbersusa stating that 40% of all illegals were collecting welfare and more than on-third of them were unemployed. The reason they are spreading out throughout the country is that the border states are saturated with them and the competition is less in Ohio or North Carolina or New Jersey than in CA. I got into a live battle with the Brownback people on-line at Powerline's Candidates Forum a couple of days ago where they were insisting that Brownback simply cannot support separating families simply because the father entered America illegally. The thread is still up. If you want to appreciate how dense and obtuse these candidates truly are on this subject, take a few minutes and read the thread. It got so intense with so many of us that they had to set up a separate thread to interject with answers (believe me, they were cutting and pasting stock responses).

Here's the link: enjoy

http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/18025/
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:29 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Correction on last post

It was grassfire that sent me the e-mails although I get regular e-mails from numbersusa too.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:36 PM willibeaux writes:

Ellis Island

Ellis Island was the main processing center on the East Coast for legal immigration until it closed in 1954. The facilities slowly deteriorated until 1984. Lee Iacoca’s ( of Chrysler fame) parents emigrated through Ellis Island and he decided to put together the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation to raise money for restoration. He wanted to honor his parents. I had the privilege of being the National Park Service’s Contracting officer for the design contract to restore the main hall until I retired in August of 1986. Early in the design phase before retirement, I made a trip out to the Island to get an idea of what the project was going to entail. I stood in the main hall, closed my eyes, and visualized what it must have been like for those poor, scared human beings looking for a better life. If I remember correctly they had to have sponsors from our country as references before they could enter. Those who were approved for entry were sent on their way to their new homes. Those with criminal records were put back on the boat. Some with certain types of illnesses were also put back on the boat.
Everything was done legal and proper to give these folks a chance to realize the American dream.
Now we have this illegal alien plague which will ultimately destroy our way of life if it continues.
Wake up America before it is too late.
I'll send the Ellis Island link in a susequent post
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:37 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

I posted an excerpt from that link you just provided. This is exactly what happened to me on my job. I got ousted as a senior person, along with other senior co-workers, our pensions were lost, and our jobs went overseas. And, yes, then at a senior age you have to go out and find another form of work. It's not easy.


"American companies do this as well, after they’ve ‘laid-off’ their more highly paid senior people, because they don’t want to pay them. There are many, many technically-expert people in this country who have moved on to other professions because they can’t find work in their fields. Why not import a twenty-something Indian who will work for 1/3 of what his older, more experienced, American counterpart will?"
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:39 PM Bradford_ writes:

This comment

caught my attention on the Brownback thread.

"All this civil discourse is interesting, even instructive. But the bet is plain and simple. Brownback bets that Corporate Republicans and their wealth will decide the outcome of the nomination process and that conservatives, restive in the primaries, have no choice but to return meekly to the fold. We’re calling the bet; indeed, raising it. Let’s see who blinks first."

There's always been a tension between the Rockefeller wing of the GOP and its other 'nativist' constituencies (I hesitate to use the nativist term for fear of offending Darvin Dowdy again, so I do so just as a descriptive term). But in 08 this threatens to split the GOP wide open.

Not sure how this impacts the Dems.

Maybe a third party?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:42 PM xpressit writes:

Pepp

While you are on the matter, Pepp, do you see conflict in their hasty need for an anti-human-trafficking bill while they push for comprehensive appeasment for guest workers? Sure Globalism in all its goriness is a huge problem/ threat. Does it mean you cannot clamp down on illegal invasion? Since when don't we treat the symptoms too. Incidentally, Tancredo is against both.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:43 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Thanks for that post. I too, often imagine what it was like for my grandparents coming here into Ellis Island and how frightening that must have been. My grandmother would never talk about the "old country" as she called it, which was Hungary for her. She always said to us that why would she want to look back on that now that she is free in America and has the best. She didn't have the best. She was by no means a wealthy woman at all.

She had to struggle terribly with 5 children after my grandfather was burned alive due to friendly fire detonations on a military base. But, to her being in America was the best. She didn't have money, she had her own chickens she raised and butchered, her own eggs, her own garden veggies and she lived quite humbly, but
she was in America. That's all that mattered to her.

Also whenever any of her neighbors needed anything, she was right there. She had very little, but she gave them food she had canned an chicken she had raised. That was the immigrant spirit back then.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:48 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint

It is much pervasive than people imagine. Ten years ago, how many computer programmers who were paper millionaires ever imagined that their jobs were outsourceable? Hip replacement and other medical procedures are being outsourced packaged as vacations. We all know about talking to Apu in India for tech support on our PCs. Virtually anything can be commoditized and outsourced. I'm a stockbrocker and the only thing keeping me in business is that it is a personal relationship business although the industry is doing everything to get us out of the loop by standardizing products and services and reducing what we do to running hypotheses based on simple-minded profiling questionaires and running them through "Monte Carlo Scenario" programs to produce "optimal" asset-allocation and diversification portfolio recommendations. Total BS. No one is safe. Dentists, doctors, lawyers, tax-preparers, you name it. If you can't demonstrate clear value or otherwise differentiate yourself from a standard service, your days are numbered. People just want everything on the cheap and don't realize that it will eventually take them out too.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:49 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

"Sure Globalism in all its goriness is a huge problem/ threat. Does it mean you cannot clamp down on illegal invasion? Since when don't we treat the symptoms too. Incidentally, Tancredo is against both."

That's right. There is no reason to dismiss this problem. If there is indeed a labor shortage, which I don't believe, why can't we go back to "legal immigration" for the labor demands?

I know Tancredo is against both, but I don't see him having a dog's chance in the election do you?

We are developing slave labor again in this country. It's almost like we're going backwards instead of forwards as far as labor. Most of the unions are disappearing because employers have cleaned up their acts. Now that there are far less unions around the employers are going back to old ways. At least that is what I think.
I've never been for unions, but I'm beginning to see why we needed them in the first place.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:52 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

Your story really touched me. There are thousands just like it.
BTW check Brian's Blog for a solution to your encounter with the "frog".
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:53 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

I was thinking more about what you wrote and thought of the analogy that when a patient comes in to the doctor's office, if that person has some STD, the doctor treats the symptoms while he reports the disease to the Board of Health so they can track down the persons the patient had contact with.

So, yes the symptoms need to be treated at the same time. It is not exclusive of one another.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 10:54 PM willibeaux writes:

Ellis Island

Here is the link:
http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:04 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

I was a network administrator and I would get paged in the middle of the night that a server was down.
The procedure was for me to first call at HQ in San Fran, where I would be talking to the on callers who were all foreigners (in San Fran) I had a terrible time trying to decipher what the heck they were telling me at 3am having been awakened by a pager.

I would have a server down here in my state and have to talk to these people in San Fran about the call. They are the ones who received the problem calls and had to ticket it into the system. Then I would pick the problem up from them. Fortunately most of the server problems I could fix by dialing in at home.

Later, the company took the whole HQ out of San Fran, shipped all the jobs overseas and the rest of the people remaining were told they could move to the Tempe, AZ location or otherwise just be w/o a job.

Eventually it filtered down throughout the whole company and that's where I got bumped off.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:06 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

My grandma is the one who lost her one son in Vietnam too. Her husband and one son to the wars.
Both of them served in Korea and came back alive but not in one piece. So, my grandma had her share of suffering.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:10 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

I meant to say that you are right. No one is safe in their jobs. It is not just the lower paying jobs. It's the high tech jobs too like mine disappearing.

My son works in the same field doing the same thing I did. His company has done the same thing. He just waits for his job to go also. It seems it is just a matter of time.

I hear the MSM and pols say that people have to get themselves educated so they can keep their jobs. Nonsense. I got my education, was a very skilled tech and got bumped out. It's a bunch of horse manure.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:16 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp: You misunderstood

I didn't mean we'd be importing the Chinese or cheap companies; I was referring to importing the cheap labor ITSELF, in the form of the illegals or whatever form their personhood becomes if "comprehensive" passes, be it "guest workers" or whatever.

It's a hypocritical joke on the entire country.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:21 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Oh, I am really having a problem today with my arm and brain dysfunctions. Sorry to misunderstand.

Yes, we probably will import the Chinese laborers and put everyone out of work. I wonder what country will have all of jobless ones? Where will we go to make a "better" living for ourselves?
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:21 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

Thank you for sharing your grandmother's sorrow. Heartache like this proves that Freedom is not Free. It is very expensive and painful for some of our families.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:24 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

I'm just forever grateful they came here. Of course my paternal side did the same. My grandpa from Belgium and my grandmother from the Netherlands.

My Mom always talked about how hard it was growing up in her family because the adults still talked in Hungarian and Lithuanian so they couldn't understand what the parents were saying.

Then, she marries my dad and the in laws speak German so she couldn't understand them either. Just a funny story she used to tell all the time about the language barriers.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:25 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint

I didn't misunderstand you. I agree and was just expanding on your point. This country became great because of our optimistic attitude and sense of manifest destiny and willingness to innovate around our problems. The old South failed because they took the path of human exploitation despite demonstrating they could be very innovative. The North committed to innovation which was much more prosperous. This is on of the oldest lessons of history that we insist on having to relearn. Seneca, the patron saint of conservatism, wrote extensively on the subject and the lessons to be drawn are perfectly applicable today. Illegal immigration is stoking an appetite for "guest" workers = indentured servants who will become either defacto slaves or become a permanent underclass to develop a steam cooker of resentment to boil over at a future date. It is the proverbial wolf we hold by the ears where we cannot let go lest we be eaten but yet understand we cannot hold on forever because we will grow tired. The outcome will unavoidably be ugly. History has demonstrated that to be the case every single time societies have taken that road. Every single time. But of course, we're different.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:27 PM BrianR writes:

Okay, "Bradford"

Who are you, and what did you do with the REAL Bradford?

Good posts and good convo.

Your mention of international business interests is very astute, as long as we're not delving into CFR/Trilateral/Black Helicopter tinfoil hat territory.

Businesses are by their very nature apolitical, and all CEOs follow the same basic tenets to pursue profitablitity, so of course they like the concept of free movement of labor from where it's located to where it's needed if the cost savings justify that movement. If they had their way, the US coporations would take all the IT guys located in Bombay and move them lock, stock and barrel to the US, as long as they didn't have to pay them a dime an hour more than they do now.

That's a huge part of the problem.

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:28 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp: Quick answer

In a few years, Mexico will be a barren and unpopulated wasteland.

We can all move there and take over the world!

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:33 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

Oh, I didn't think you misunderstood me. That was me misunderstanding Brian's comment. Or am I hveing more brain dysfunction?

Whew. Anyway, just what is going to happen is going to be ugly I think. I can't see this being settled peacefully when no one is listening to us in DC.
What needs to happen.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:35 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

OK. We'll all go to the waste land of Mexico and I guess since we all have the American spirit of building our lives, we'll figure out some business venture to survive. I wonder what that could be?

Oh, we could illegally come back into the country and get benefits and run back over the border and set up shop.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:37 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Brad spent some time over at DD's and got converted with the help of DD. I guess that is what happened.
Either that or it's someone else but I think not.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:39 PM Pasadena Phil writes:

Peppermint

That reminds me of another Bushism that frosts me. When he states that Americans have to be prepared to have several careers in their lives and so be constantly in training for the next job, what does that mean? What is it exactly that I should be re-educating myself for? And what makes anyone think that there is a good, steady living to be had in such a life? It is an argument only the independently wealthy could argue with a straight face. No one will ever have the f.u. money needed to find dignity. That is how labor costs are kept low. It doesn't work in the long run. All you get are lots and lots of poor people (us) and fewer and fewer but wealthier and wealthier aristocrats (them). I may be a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist but I am an American first and I believe in democracy where we the majority can live prosperous lives in freedom. That is not where we are heading.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:46 PM BrianR writes:

Pepp: The new business

Since it'll be unpopulated except for us, and a lot of it is jungle, here's the new business venture, a sure-fire big-money winner.





We can sell Carbon-Offset credits, and we'll have a whole country full of trees to do it with.

Overnight millionaires! Billionaires! Or bigger!

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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:48 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

Oh you are so right!! I get frosted over this prepare yourself education stuff too. Like how many college educations can one person afford?

I sunk all my extra money getting the education I needed to make a living for myself after divorce.

So what happens. All my time and hard work went down the drain. Now, I'm supposed to get another education to do what is exactly right. Do what job that won't be pulled out from under a person the next time.

Where does Bush think people have all this extra money sitting around? I'd like to know where he thinks divorced women get the money. After divorce you are poor. No one makes out in a divorce.

So, I don't have a big nest egg sitting around for me to pluck money out of for the next re-education. I started off with a disadvantage because I chose to stay home and be a mother, so I had nothing built up.

I am not alone. I have many friends in the same position who stayed at home with their families and now are either divorced or widowed and are struggling to make it.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:49 PM Peppermint writes:

Brian

Yeah, that's the ticket. We'll make a fortune with that one.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:51 PM Peppermint writes:

PPhil

"I may be a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist but I am an American first and I believe in democracy where we the majority can live prosperous lives in freedom. That is not where we are heading."

Amen to that.
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Sunday, May, 06, 2007 11:57 PM Peppermint writes:

PPHil

Another thing that frosts me is illegals getting free educations. What is up with that? We don't get that and we're citizens. What kind of f.u. insanity is that one?

Our own kids can't get this benefit, but we give it to illegals.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:00 AM Jimmy Carter writes:

Illegal alien-offset credits:

for every illegal that crosses the border, we send a lib down there.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:02 AM Peppermint writes:

JimmyCarter

LOL! What a great idea!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:32 AM xpressit writes:

Peppermento

You touched the spear tip there. I am not pro-union (except traditional marriage:-). Years in the Teamsters and witness thereof taught me they can do nothing the company cannot do itself, except charge you for it. I never saw bennies from the local. But to your point, overall it may be regressing. Long time since Reagan's air-traffic controllers, eh? If companies have a descent basic plan, it’s as good as union. Committment. I saw lots of places harassed to get unions in; but once in I saw lots of problems – go figure.

Tancredo chances? It might be as they say, 'slim and none and slims out of town'. But so far he's the only one who seems to mention North American partnership issues. It’s a lonely voice.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:38 AM xpressit writes:

Pepp

Illegal college aid, Grrrrr! (and it creates animosity among students)
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:38 AM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

I'm not pro union either. My dad who was in the Teamsters swore by them although I don't know why.

Tancredo is a lonely voice for sure. The problem with Tancredo is he needs to be more than a one issue guy to get any steam rolling. I sure would like to see that happen.

Someone said on another blog and I can't recall where that Tancredo has burned a lot of bridges. I don't know what that meant. It wasn't explained further. Do you know? I don't know much about him except that he is wanting to close the borders, our big issue. So why don't more people support him I wonder?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:53 AM xpressit writes:

Since afl-cya is not

an option (to make a union up)... ever note the bureaucrats s' state unions? Geesh, like teachers’. BTW: there are some good locals of the IBoT- a lot depends on the local. The bad can give the good a bad name, ironically enough. When NJ had contract problems people realized how far g-employees union reached (into gaming etc). So governmental unions, there's a paradox. Once I looked up salaries of teacher union execs, and yikes. Then the political clout they toss around like a tank makes you resent the purpose.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:58 AM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Unions and political clout, they sure do go together don't they? Unions in my state are what sends voters in the inner cities to the polls to vote for dims.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:05 AM xpressit writes:

hmmm

for being out of sync with party/admin., Idunno?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:12 AM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

Excellent post. You said it all and very well. I just have one more thing to throw into the cauldron.
I've found that the very people who accuse others of being racists are themselves racists of the worst kind. They are projecting their feelings on those who have never had a racist thought in their lives.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:17 AM xpressit writes:

Pepp

I just now read Will's chink-link on the other thread. hogs, chic's, and now meds -disturbing to put it mildly.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:30 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

You are right about people who project racism. For myself I don't even think in those terms, never have. My mother always taught me to treat people as equals no matter what race, color, or creed. That was one of the best lessons she ever taught me and I hold that one dear.
She grew up with so much prejudice thrown her way because the kids thought she was Polish and called her a dirty Pollock all the time. So, she felt the sting of that kind of thing and never wanted it to get passed on.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:32 AM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

What link of Willi's? Am I missing something?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:45 AM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

My introduction to the world of racism came at a very early age. I was in second grade and heard my parents discussing the grief they were taking from neighbors for using the daughter of a Black Navy officer to babysit for us.
A few days later someone in the school yard called the baby sitter's younger sister a nasty word and I had my first fight. It was the last time anyone did that when I in the general vicinity.
My next and last fight was with the neighborhood bully who called my brother a very nasty name. I didn't know what that word meant but I knew the tone. He was a year older than me and a lot bigger. I came out of that fight with a black eye, he had a broken nose and two black eyes. His family moved out of town not long afterwards and whenever he saw me coming after that he got out of the way fast. It was amusing to me because we ended up going to the same high school.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:49 AM xpressit writes:

Pepp

In the part 8 thread; top link of two in the post.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:50 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

LOL! You crack me up. Good for you for fighting these bullies.

My grandfather taught all the kids to box so my mother and her brothers could all stand up for themselves when they were called names. Needless to say they did plenty of boxing. My two uncles were always being hauled off to jail for getting into fights. That was during their adolescent years and they weren't willing to be called dirty pollocks.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:58 AM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

Establishing a reputation for myself at such a young age as a fighter for right certainly helped keep the slurs to a minimum. I'm sure I didn't change anyone's bias but they sure learned never to express them around me.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 2:03 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

I was thinking that's another reason you're so good at fighting the Hizzies. You don't let them bully you.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 3:48 AM Raging Bunny writes:

Illegals

It's going to take more than just the American people to fight this. The mexican government has a lot to answer for as well. They are letting these criminals come over so they don't have to deal with them. They have no reason to see what they are doing is wrong but go all up in arms when the Americans start complaining. They think we can deal with them where they can't. I'm tired of seeing these illegals getting free medical where I have to pay hundreds to offset the cost. The American government is making a huge mistake that will in the near future effect them more than they realise.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:18 AM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

I'm pretty sure that bully played a major role in helping develop the way I look at things.I use a 'two folder' system. My #1 rule is to not worry about things there's nothing I can do about(weather, earthquakes, volcanoes, wars. The 2nd and more important is to do something about things I can do something about, which leads very nicely to not having to worry about them, because I'm doing something. Nice and simple.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:27 AM Peppermint writes:

Raging Bunny

Thanks for coming by. You bring up another aspect of this illegal problem, the rising cost of medical care for Americans, who are offsetting the cost for their free medical care. It is not right and it is not fair to the tax payer.

Where is it in the Constitution that we are to pay for something like this?

Over and over our government has allowed and encouraged things like this that are completely unconstitutional. It makes me sick.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:29 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

You have the best outlook on life to save yourself a lot of grief. I imagine that is why you have such a good spirit and good humor.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 9:47 AM The Crawfish writes:

invasion

Yup, it is an invasion, and it is supported by the armed forces of Mexico and the Dim-ocrat Party.

President Crawfish would end the invasion rather quickly...with a couple of battalions of Marines scattered across the border with orders to prevent invaders from entering our nation by any and all means necessary. 7.62mm fully jacketed rounds being inserted into the bodies of said invaders at high velocity is not only authorized, it is encouraged. That will change the mindset of those who wish to violate our borders. As Voltaire said, "pour encourager les autres!"

Guest worker program? Works for me, as long as they have to register in their home countries at our consulates and wait for a slot to open up for them.

People/businesses that hire illegals: Send the CEO and the personnel directors to prison and fine each company $1M per illegal alien found working for them. That'll get the attention of stockholders and the CEOs. Oh, and no country club prisons allowed. Tipsters get $100 for each illegal caught from their tips.

Raids on businesses: As many as our agents can make! Those fines will add up to lots of new agents being hired!

Sanctuary cities: Any municipality that refuses to cooperate with the federal government in upholding the Constitution shall immediately lose all federal monies and business. If that doesn't help to change their minds, having their Congresscritters and Senators lose voting priviledges might.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 9:53 AM Peppermint writes:

Crawfish

Thanks for sharing your ideas. Great ones indeed. Your ideas would end this invasion and the pols tell us they can't do it. It's baloney of course, just look at what you wrote. The government could stop this invasion if they wanted to, but they don't.
Our military will eventually be the answer I think
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 10:00 AM Buck writes:

It IS and Invasion


I lived in a 'Barrio' for many years. These are my experiences.

1. Illegals are armed to the teeth.

One of the first things an illegal purchases here is a 'pistola'.
Usually a 9mm semi-automatic. (I suppose this is because the laws
against private ownership in Mexico are so harsh.)

2. Illegals are NOT here for jobs, "...no American will take."

In my years in construction I saw the following jobs, that were all
performed by Americans when I started, completely dominated by
illegals:

1. Drywall;
2. Bricklaying;
3. Roofing;
4. Concrete;
5. Landscaping;

Large inroads into Framing and the only reason I could discern
Plumbing, Electrical and Heating & Air were not overrun was because
of the state licensing requirements.

3. Illegals total disrespect for our laws and customs.

This starts at the border when they enter our country illegally.
When they buy a pistol it is a violation of our laws. When they
obtain false, fake or stolen I.D. they are further breaking our laws
and it continues when they purchase a motor vehicle, don't bother to
insure that vehicle and proceed to drive that vehicle DUI. Any check
with DPS or city police will confirm the number of DUI related deaths
where the driver is an illegal. They make bail and skip the country
only to reenter in another state with another I.D.

4. Illegals pose health threat to us.

Diseases we long ago eradicated in our country have not so been in
many of the countries from which these illegals come. Legal entry
into our country requires vaccination against those diseases.
Illegal entry does not.

5. Illegals pose financial burden on all of us.

Our community health programs for which we pay taxes and is
supposed to benefit our fellow citizens is overrun and overburdened
by illegals who pay nothing. Our education system is close to the
breaking point because of children of illegals, again who pay no
taxes.

6. Our prisons are overcrowded to the point of a Constitutional
crises. Illegals are, once again, in the forefront of the problem.

7. And lastly, I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO PRESS "1" FOR ENGLISH!!!!!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 10:09 AM Peppermint writes:

Buck

So glad to see you. Everything you cited is a serious problem for all of us. This has got to stop.
Sooner or later something is going to break, something is going to happen when the country goes over the boiling point.

And, I am sick to death too of pressing 1 for English.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 10:56 AM willibeaux writes:

Yo Buck

What great comments on the consequences of our failure to enforce our immigration laws!!
Too bad most Americans have their blinders on and can't see the forest for the trees. Nikita Khrushchev once bragged that "we (the Soviet Union) will bury you" (USA). The Reds were not successful yet, but I'm wondering if the South of the Border folks are in the process of "burying us".
An ole Korean War Vet
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 11:08 AM Peppermint writes:

Willi

Good observation. We probably will be taken down by the invasion on our southern borders. The Russians don't have to worry about destroying us. We are doing it to ourselves.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 11:09 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Peppermint

My ancestors came here legally as well and stayed on Ellis Island, which is all I ask of the new crop of immigrants. To do anything LESS is to denigrate the sacrifices of OUR ancestors who came here from far away, to build something not grub off of the system.

In fact, my g-g-grandfather came here from then, Austro-Hungarian Empire, to Bremen, to NYC, to PA, as a 13 y.o. MAN!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 11:10 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

ALL

Get off of Peppermint's blog! She has too many comments! haha. I have three articles up now, and one real hard-hitter on G.W!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 11:19 AM Peppermint writes:

Gunny

Yes, the illegals desecrate our ancestors memories and the hard work they did to make it here.

I've got too many comments? Ha!

I want to hear from everybody and see what their thoughts are on this. We keep getting told from the MSM this is not a big issue. I think it is along with many others.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:27 PM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

Oh yea, same tripe from MSM. Its not "the issue”. Then the racist names etc follow. Ever see how Geraldo plays the open border game? You really need to have a lower profile, if this is going to be one of your issues. (insert astonished look)We even get told it cost us the election along with Iraq. The left runs some propaganda campaign, doesn't it?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 12:55 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

I could strangle Gerardo everytime he goes off on this issue. Did you see the night he and O'Reilly got into it over this issue? I thought O'Reilly was going to do to him what I keep wanting to do, knock him off his chair and beat his face in. Ha!Ha!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:03 PM shades writes:

Build the Fence

and electrify it! As I have said time and again, how is it that all these illegals, can find the time and resources to march in dozens of cities all over the US, but can't march on such capitals as Mexico City demanding economic reforms in that country?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:11 PM xpressit writes:

Goraldo

He went to Fox trying to fit the "mild mannered reporter" type, and soon after drew that infamous line in the sand. How symbolic you have to chuckle. Check gunny & mrs. Ann's site on moonbats. He fits in with that crowd I liked that psyche ward comment. He busted a move like limo-libs all do. And now he puts down trash-talking TV shows, after how many greedy years. (Oh, his was different)
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:15 PM Peppermint writes:

shades

That's a good point. Why don't they? Can't get away with it in Mexico as they can here?

We need to have mines setup along the borders, so announce the mines are there and anyone trying to cross takes it at their own risk. Then it is their own fault if they get blown up.

There are many ways to stop this, but nothing is being done and the government only gives us lip service how they cannot do anything.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:20 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Geraldo has a lot of nerve bashing other shows when his segment on Fox is nothing but a tabloid gossip hour of crap. I don't see his segment being anything different than the trash he used to do on afternoon TV. I don't know why Fox even has him. They kicked him off for awhile and now he's back with his trashy show which I turn off because he makes me sick.

Geraldo belongs in the psyche ward with Crow. They could share toilet paper.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 1:22 PM xpressit writes:

shades

On some other blog we decided to convert north-mex to a fed prison, with all those government jobs. This would put the "magnet" south of the border, in tequilla terrain, in more ways than one.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 3:55 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

You need to sic dem der bad motorcycles (your Mossad) on Jerry Rivers aka Geraldo Reveira (sp). After they get done with him, he'd be putty in your hands.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:07 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Yo, that sounds like a darned good idea. Let the Mossad shut them up with their great tactics.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:33 PM willibeaux writes:

Peppermint

Is you off today?

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Open a new file in your computer.

2. Name it "Nancy Pelooooosie"

3. Send it to the trash.

4. Empty the trash.
5. Your PC will ask you, "Do you really want to get
rid of "Nancy Pelooooosi?"

6. Firmly Click "Yes."

7. Feel better.

PS: Next week we'll do Babs Streistand

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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:34 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

LOL! You're hilarious and you put a smile on my face everyday.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:47 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

A little background on Nancy Pelooooosi. She came to San Fran from Baltimore, Md. She is a member of the D"Alessandro political family. Her father, Tommy D"Alessandro was Mayor when I graduated from Baltimore Polytechnic High School in June, 1949. Tommy presented the diplomas on graduation night and shook my hand (ugh) as he handed me my diploma. Are you thrilled to be privileged to receive this bit of historical trivia? I didn't think so. Maybe the History Channel might be interested for the right price. What in the devil does this have with our immigration problems? I do believe that her family came to the US of A following the legal procedures.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 4:53 PM willibeaux writes:

Pepp

One more comment on Nancy Pelooooosie. I plagiarized
the dragging out of her last name from the Savage Nation. I listen to him sometimes until he starts attacking President Bush. Then it's "Sayonara" Mikey.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:04 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Did you grow up in Baltimore? My mother was from Baltimore. I'm always interested in history.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:06 PM Peppermint writes:

Yo Will

On Savage I listen to him sometimes too, but when he gets over the top and all crabby I turn him off.
He tells some really good stories sometimes when he is off his political stuff. I enjoy his stories.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:14 PM willibeaux writes:

Pepp

Yes!! I was born and raised in Baltimore. Grew up in the Pimlico neighborhood whose claim to fame is the racetrack where the Preakness (2nd leg of the triple crown) is run right after the Kentucky Derby. Would you like my autograph? Is you off today?
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:19 PM Peppermint writes:

Yo Willi

Well I'll be darned. My Mom grew up in Joppa and Bethseda. Right now my aunt and uncle live in Forest Hill, I have a cousin in Ady, another one in Street, and I can't think offhand which town the 3rd cousin lives in.

Sure, I'll take your autograph. Is it worth money?:-)
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:36 PM willibeaux writes:

Pepp

That and $6.00 will get you a cup of Starbucks.
I know where Joppa and Bethesda are located. I'm not familiar with the other places you mentioned.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 5:40 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

Forest Hill is about an hour north of Baltimore.
My aunt and uncle have a farm there.

OK. I'll go for a Starbucks!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 7:17 PM Nee writes:

Welll....Pepp, Willi,Buck

Pepp,
I gotta give you some big kudos! I knew there were good people around TH, but this bog of discussion has been great to read. (Don't have much time to post these days with a new job...first one since I had babies.)
Willi, I absolutely dislike the #1 key and I always press 0 before they get to "bada agutta"(that is what it sounds like...I think the transltaion is bad agita!! for pressing 1!)
Buck, I needed a spew alert for your last point!!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 7:32 PM willibeaux writes:

Pepp

Check your e-mail
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 7:49 PM Peppermint writes:

Hi Nee

Thanks for stopping in with your busy life going on. Hope it is going well.

I like how you described the message in spanish.

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Monday, May, 07, 2007 7:52 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

Got your email.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:37 PM willibeaux writes:

Chimp a Person

Activists want chimp declared a person. Are you ready for this goodie? Where is this madness gonna end?

Here is the link:

http://www.dailymail.com/story/News/2007050710/Suit-seeks-to-declare-chimp-a-person/
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:51 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Peppermint

This oughta' be good for a laugh.
This oughta' be good for a laugh.


Chelsea Clinton asked a returning
US Soldier about fear.? ?He said there were only 3 things
he was afraid of:
? 
"Osama, Obama and 'Yo Mama!!!"
 
__._,_.___

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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:54 PM Peppermint writes:

Willi

The chimp a person, what next? Like you said where does it end?
Ha! Like that joke!
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:56 PM Peppermint writes:

WilliBeax

Look for an email from me.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:59 PM glasser writes:

Classic symptoms

A classic symptom of an alcoholic/addict is to criticize anyone who is critical of themselves. This allows them to rationalize their own misdeeds and leads to worse ones. The Dems, who are bad about doing the exact same thing, see the illegal invaders/criminal trespassers as natural allies, as well as the Islamists, would rather ruin America than lose potential votes. Only the people who are ignorant about the Dems would vote for them, so it stands to reason people who are not supposed to be here, much less be voting, would vote Demo. This is making me sick.
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Monday, May, 07, 2007 9:04 PM Peppermint writes:

glasser

Thanks so much for coming and letting me know your thoughts on this situation. I agree it is making me sick too.
I really don't understand how anyone votes for the dems. They are the defeatist party and never support our troops.
And, yes they side with all things wrong. It seems they want to bring down our country.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:25 AM anti-socialist writes:

illegals

Thomas Sowell stated: "Referring to an Illegal Alien as an undocumented worker is like referring to a drug dealer as an unlicensed pharmacist" to which I would add, "is like referring to a rapist as an unlicensed gynecologist".

Where racism comes into play:
My grandfather left Germany between the wars & when he arrived was advised that he had 6 months to learn english fluently or he would be returned to Germany AND if, during that 6 months, he applied for any government assistance, he would spend time in prison before being sent back to Germany. Needless to say, he obeyed the laws.
On the other hand, non-whites are not held to the same level of accountability that my grandfather was. It is racism that allows them to break the laws without being held accountable.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:33 AM Peppermint writes:

antisocialist

Wow. That is quite a different look at the problem. Yes it is reverse racism isn't?

We should go back to those rules, learning English and not taking welfare. These people would probably leave then.
Thanks for coming by and telling your story. Most interesting.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 7:52 AM Pappy Michael writes:

Peppermint


First, great job on latest Juliet's Diary !

Second, like you, I am a second generation American. And like your grandparents, mine were not given, nor did they expect special treatment.

They were expected to learn English and become Americans. Not Mexican-Americans, not German-Americans, not French-Americans, Americans. Period, no hyphenization. This they did.

Third, I have decided that I can accept being called a Racist by the Left. It is obvious they do not know the meaning of the word, and they only use it to obfuscate the debate since they cannot argue with rational thought.

If I am Racist because I do not want Mexicans invading the US illegally, so be it. I will still sleep soundly at night despite the onerous moniker.

Looking forward to your next chapter, keep up the good work !
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 8:11 AM Bradford_ writes:

Texas

State Representative Leo Berman (R-Tyler) blames illegal immigrants for increases in communicable diseases and thinks the 14th Amendment should be challenged. he said this on Monday night in a debate on a border security bill in the Texas House of Representatives.

How many of you think the 14th Amendment should be repealed?
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 8:17 AM Bradford_ writes:

Follow the money

Someone likes illegals.....

Forbes Magazine
Monday, January 8, 2007
The Best Of The Best

Business Services & Supplies

Corrections Corp. Of America

Crime pays. At least for John Ferguson, chief of $1.3 billion (sales) Corrections Corporation of America (nyse: CXW - news - people ), the nation's largest privatized prison operator. If there's one thing Ferguson can rely on, it's that criminals are never in short supply and there aren't enough bars to put them behind. Ferguson's 23-year-old firm, in Nashville, Tenn., is the oldest company of its kind. And it has cells to spare. "We have seen this percolating demand for many years that we didn't sense other people saw," he says. "This company has prepared itself." Earnings per share are up 130% over the last 12 months.

Ferguson insists on staying ahead of demand, even if that means the occasional empty cell block. A strong balance sheet and steady cash flow buttressed $120 million in 2006 spending to expand existing slammers and build new ones. One 1,600-occupant prison opened this year in Arizona; as many as 10,000 beds are planned for the next year and a half. "[Its] business development pipeline continues to amaze us," says Jefferies & Co. analyst Anton Hie. Bring on the bad guys: These big houses have plenty of room.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 8:18 AM Peppermint writes:

Pappy

I'm not losing any sleep over being called a racist either, particularly since I know I am not one.
It's just a canard that gets thrown out there to shut everyone up because it's supposed to be an onerous thing to be racist.

I thought anti socialist made a good point about things being racist in reverse in his comment too.

I'm working on the next chapter and glad you enjoyed that last one. Thanks.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 8:23 AM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

Moot point. The 14th Amendment will not be repealed.
And, the illegals are bringing in diseases that have been absent in this country for years. My grand children now have to receive Hepatitis C immunizations because of the increase in this disease due to illegals. So, they have to put out money to keep the kids safe, just another example of the problems facing us with so many running around our country unaccounted for and uninspected for diseases.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 9:31 AM Bradford_ writes:

anti-socialist

you say that "non-whites are not held to the same level of accountability that my grandfather was."

If you can demonstrate that white immigrants ARE currently being held to a different standard than non-whites, then you might have a point. But I doubt that.

And if this isn't a race issue as so many claim, then why the reference to skin color. I though illegality was the issue?
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 9:40 AM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

If you are going to start accusing people of racism again, I suggest you take the accusations elsewhere, and off my blog.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 9:47 AM Bradford_ writes:

I'm not

accusing anyone of anything. I'm merely asking anti socialist to support his claim that white immigrants are held to a different standard than non white immigrants.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 9:52 AM Peppermint writes:

Brad

I believe anti socialist was citing how "legal" immigration used to be handled when our folks came here, how they had to learn English, could not apply for welfare and the likes.

I believe what she/he meant is that the standards have been lowered for these people, as if they are not capable of learning, and that is a form of reverse racism.

It is demeaning to have the belief that other people, non whites are incapable of learning what white immigrants had to learn. I believe that is the point she/he was making.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 10:09 AM Bradford_ writes:

Legal immigration still requires that.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), requires basic English language proficiency and some knowledge of US history and civics of people who want to stay legally. I don't see any evidence that The "standards have been lowered for these people."
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 10:16 AM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

Then why are we having all of these Spanish speaking telephone messages telling you to push that button or this one depending on what language you speak.

There was a story last week that two Hispanics were suing an employer who fired them after a year because they would not learn English. The employer gave them a year to learn English.

Schools are accommodating another language when they should be speaking English.

I don't think learning English is being followed through or these people are here illegally.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 10:32 AM Bradford_ writes:

The US

has always been a multilingual society. Objecting to the prevalence of languages other than English in the mainstream of America is to wish for an isolationist America as it existed in the 1920s. And in today's world, that just isn't going to happen.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 10:37 AM Peppermint writes:

Brad

Sure there are many languages spoken by people in this country, but now we are going down the road of not having English as the "national" language.

That does not make us isolationist, but brings all people together under one nation as was intended.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 10:47 AM Bradford_ writes:

I don't understand

what loyalty to one's nation has to do with speaking English. Can't Spanish speakers be loyal Americans too?
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 11:08 AM Bradford_ writes:

Pepp

what happens by the middle of the century when white 'Euro-Americans' are a minority in the country (as the demographers assure us it will)? Will you still consider the country 'American'?
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 11:15 AM Peppermint writes:

Brad

This is America where the language is English. If people want to come here and be part of America and assimilate into our culture, then it behooves them to speak the language and be able to communicate with other Americans. It's part of the fabric of the nation and has been for a long time.

As far as your second question I don't really understand it.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 11:37 AM anti-socialist writes:

Racism..

Originally, racism was the discrimination of an entire race (by a person of a different race), based soley on their race. Under this discription, a majority of today's hammites & japhethites are racists.

To a Marxist (libs), racism is a conservative/pro-constitutionalist despising anyone of anti-constitutional/pro-racist ideals.

Were a conservative to make FALSE comments about Barack Obama similar to those FALSE commnets which the Marxists (libs) make about Condi Rice he would be labeled a racist wereas the Marxists consider their hateful remarks about constitutionalists as 1st amendment rights.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 11:56 AM Peppermint writes:

Brad

I think you are getting confused about what county this is. This is America, not Haiti, not Cuba, not China, not Mexico, not el Salvador.

Here is America, we speak English and have a culture that is American, a blend of all the different peoples who have come here over many years. The immigrants wanted to come here because of what America had to offer them, a way to live our their dream of freedom and prosperity. They blended in with our culture, learned our language and practiced our way of life. To not do so is would be causing your own misfortune. If you can't speak the language how can you expect to move upward in this country?

So, for me, this is America first and foremost.
The immigrants who come here now can do the same as ours did and live a good life.

If people come here and don't want to assimilate then why come at all. They should stay in their own country then and continue their country's practices of that culture, that language, and whatever else that may entail.


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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:24 PM Raging Bunny writes:

Brad

Brad asks:

I'm not
accusing anyone of anything. I'm merely asking anti socialist to support his claim that white immigrants are held to a different standard than non white immigrants.

Brad,I'm not being a b***h here, but I would suggest you look back in history. My ggg- grandfather came over from Germany. He was 12 years old and had to learn English, become "Americanised" then he was sent out as a train child. This meant that he had to go to work on a farm for people he didn't know and earn his way until he was 16. At this age he was let loose to fend for himself. Now I'm not saying this was a bad thing. He learned how to live and became very successful from this, but I can guantee that 70% of these Mexicans who cross the boarder illegally aren't here to make a living. They cross because they can fake their identity and if they get caught...poof...they can disappear and come back as someone else. Watch the news, most of these guys that get arrested aren't arrested for jaywalking.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:28 PM BrianR writes:

Bradford: A couple of points

The 14th Amendment doesn't have to be repealed. It was originally passed to secure rights for the children of slaves. It has been badly misinterpreted as being applicable to kids of illegal aliens, the misinterpretation being based on the fact that the amendment itself clearly states that children of people "subject to the jurisdiction" of the US are citizens. Illegal aliens are not subject to that jurisdiction; they are subject to the jurisdiction of their mother country.

Further, as to linguistic unity, any country that isn't united by a common language is doomed to factionalism, seperatism, and sectarianism. Look at Canada and Quebec, the Slav states, Kosovo/Serbia, etc.

Even TR warned against "hyphenated Americans".

The US has never been a multi-lingual society as you posited. The traditional ideal has been for immigrant groups to immerse and assimilate, including learning and using English. They would take pride in doing so! They had become Americans! This whole "ethnic identity" nonsense is a recent phenomenon, and is a huge threat to our country.

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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:34 PM BrianR writes:

I'll illustrate further

I'm a pilot. One of the requirements for getting a pilot's license is the ability to "speak, read and understand English". The reason for that is that all radio communications (air traffic control, ground control, etc) are carried out in English. That's so that:

1. Everybody listening to that radio frequency knows exactly what everyone else is doing and saying;

2. Communications are even possible. Can't have a pilot who speaks only Italian lining up for a landing at LAX where the Tower guys may speak only English.

So, where lives are actually at stake, the rule is enforced. It creates safety and unity through a common ability to communicate.

You don't think the same principle holds true at the national level? The stakes are just as high: national survival.



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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:42 PM SLW writes:

Peppermint:

Illegals are not supposed to vote, clearly, but it's hard to control when the Democrat polling places don't demand any identification and fight in the courts not to have picture I.D.'s.

Also, when the Dems are in power, they simply give blanket amnesty. The ACLU will fight anything put in place for controlling the illegal allien problem.

In California the courts overturned the people's vote on this issue, several years ago.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:50 PM Peppermint writes:

Sandra

If we don't have some form of ID to vote, then we might as well let anyone from any country come vote in our elections. Makes about as much sense. Right?

I don't understand this kind of thinking.

And, yes I know the ACLU is always defending the illegals as if they have any rights at all. Insanity again. Who will stop this insanity?
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 12:59 PM Buck writes:

Yo Willi Beaux

Korea vet? You have my sympathies. I've been to Korea. Twice. First time we anchored out at Inchon. Saw the tide go out and had to wait forever for the liberty launch because the mud flats were about 1/4 mile. Or more. Second time I went just to see if it was as bad as I thought the first time. It was. Except for Walker Hill. One he11 of an R&R joint.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 1:05 PM Buck writes:

Brian R

English is the ICAO language for ATC. Or at least that is the way it is supposed to work.

Just try communicating with a Korean Air with a clearance he doesn't like......
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 1:27 PM BrianR writes:

Buck: LOL

That's what holding patterns are for!

"Ahhh, KAL 011, descend to pattern altitude and hold 5 miles north of the outer marker, estimate time of holding as indefinite, over."

Heh heh heh

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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 1:29 PM BrianR writes:

And if that doesn't work:

"Aaah, KAL 011, report to the tower after arrival at the gate and shutdown, over."

:-D

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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 2:52 PM willibeaux writes:

Yo Pepp

Slip on over to Dennis Praeger's column today on TH.
The comments are hot and heavy and getting a little too nasty for my tender ears. On second thought maybe you better stay home.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 3:05 PM Bradford_ writes:

RB, Pepp, BrianR

Thanks for the food for thought.

I'm certainly not advocating an 'anything goes' attitude towards language when it comes to issues such as ATC. And English is, in most respects, the international language of business and commerce these days. That pressure alone is probably enough incentive to encourage millions of immigrants and would-be immigrants to familiarize themselves with the language.

I'm familiar with the hoary old FAIR arguments aganist the 14th Amendment. In 2005 Nathan Deal, (R-Ga) sponsored a bill in Congress (H.R. 698) that would have stripped 14th Amendment rights from US citizens. Thankfully the bill died.

I think the (conservative) San Diego Union-Tribune put it best when they said of this:

"Since the people impacted are already citizens under current law, what this legislation really intends to do is to revoke one's citizenship. That's a punishment so severe that it is usually reserved for traitors and enemies of the state. And this bill would mete out that punishment to children. And what did these pint-size subversives do to deserve all this? Absolutely nothing. They only managed to be born to parents who entered the country illegally.

Now this is not exactly a new phenomenon. One is likely to find this story told over and over again in the pages of U.S. history. Scores of pregnant women boarded ships in Italy or Ireland, headed for Ellis Island -– not always with the proper documents -– so that their children could enter the world as U.S. citizens. That's a beautiful tradition, and it's one worth preserving."

It's worth considering. Many of your white ancestors may have been 'anchor babies' too.

BrianR, you write that "the traditional ideal has been for immigrant groups to immerse and assimilate, including learning and using English." This sounds great as an ideal, but it rarely worked like that in practice. The reality tended to be a bit more 'be like us or else.'

If you like history, I'm sure you're familiar with the fear of Chinese immigrants out West in the 19th century.. Just like Hispanics today, the "heathen Chinee" were thought to be unassimilable and were even barred from US citizenship (no melting pot for them!) and were imported as a source of cheap labor. Whites called them "long-tailed barbarians" and accused them of being the source of diseases (sound familiar?), terrorized and beat them and accused them of all sorts of crimes.







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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 4:27 PM Sheila writes:

Man oh man, Pep!

Seems you struck a nerve here!

The Left always finds ways to demonize America ie Bradford and company...obviously there have been occurances which we wished hadn't happened in our country, but as to today, and the illegal situation...we just want people who come here to not brake our laws.

In other countries TODAY there is slavery, abuse, everykind of evil you can imagine, but because we want those who come here to do it leaglly, and keep our laws, somehow we are bad, and racists...give me a break!
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 4:50 PM Bradford_ writes:

Sheila

I'm hardly "demonizing" America. Just giving a little history.

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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 5:38 PM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

"Whites called them "long-tailed barbarians" and accused them of being the source of diseases (sound familiar?), terrorized and beat them and accused them of all sorts of crimes. "

The above paragraph you wrote sounds like something more than history particularly when you inserted the (sound familiar?) in it.

The implication being that in today's invasion someone is terrorizing and beating them, which is not happening. As far as diseases go, yes they are bringing them into the country.

As I noted before children have to receive H-C immunizations because of illegals having so much of this disease. Also, a new strain of TB has been brought in by the illegals. There is no cure with the new strain, it is resistant to the usual methods used for treating TB, a disease that was almost eradicated in this country some years ago. In fact the disease was so rare the TB hospitals closed down. But, now we have a this new strain due to illegals who receive no medical check when they sneak over our borders.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 5:54 PM Peppermint writes:

As far as

anchor babies. No dice. My maternal grandmother was only 5 when she came here, so I really doubt she was pregnant. And, my ggrandmother was not with child either.
My grandfather was about 12 and he wasn't pregnant either. And, neither were his parents carrying a child at the time.

I really think you would find less so called "anchor babies" being brought here to the States because back then it was normal for a woman not to make it through child birth. Many women back then died in childbirth. That's why men married so many times.


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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 5:55 PM Peppermint writes:

That last part about

dying in child birth needs to be explained further but I'm too tired right now to do it.
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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 6:05 PM BrianR writes:

Well, Brad

You've raised a couple of interesting points I'd like to address. The San Diego paper's editorial was interesting, but of course -- just like everything here -- it's simply an opinion. There is actually legal scholarship on the applicability of the 14th Amendment, and the point I raised earlier is one that's been made in legal circles, so it certainly has validity. As to whether or not anyone will pursue that avenue for a new interpretation of the amendment: doubtful. But that doesn't mean the point shouldn't be discussed. At one time Dred Scott was settled law, too.

Actually, as to assimilation, it did indeed work in practice. Sure there was that whole "Yellow Peril" nuttiness, as there was anti-Irish, anti-Semitic, anti-German, anti-Japanese, on and on.

However, it was always the goal of those groups to assimilate, as they did for the most part once given the chance. My Mom and her family all are immigrants, Ellis Island and the whole bit, and couldn't wait to assimilate and become "Americans"; not Armenian-Americans, mind you, but Americans.

The big difference, and is THE salient point of this whole discussion, is that the groups of the past came here legally; either they were imported as the Chinese railroad workers were, or they came through the channels of legal and controlled immigration.

We are now under invasion, primarily from the south, and make no mistake about it. You can even read my recent essay on the subject if you're interested

http://viewfromtheisland.townhall.com/g/a76a94a3-f309-4ed1-97cd-a49424ff622a

so I don't want to make this comment too long.

(Hmmm.... could be a little late for THAT)



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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 7:05 PM BrianR writes:

BTW, all, kudos to Bradford

He did go to my linked essay.

You have to hand it to anyone who has enough integrity to check out offered references, whether or not you agree with them.



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Tuesday, May, 08, 2007 8:00 PM glasser writes:

The standards HAVE been lowered.

If you are Hispanic, you do not have to do anything about becoming legal even to vote. Just act like a citizen for a few minutes every now and then. It is easier for an illegal to get a driver's license in Texas than for a person who decended from Thomas Jefferson and has never been out of America. That is a fact. The only way to conquere America is to round up enough people to vote the way you want them to. How long before there are enough Hispanics, who do not like "Gringos", to have a major say in our government. This is not to say I do not like Hispanics. The reason I know that there are a lot of Hispanics who do not like "Gringos" is because I have quite a few Hispanic friends who do like "Gringos".I also have a friend with a Cambodian wife. It took 3 years and 5000 dollars to get her permission from our government to move to America, after they were married. I'm getting sick again. I gotta go. Where is a lib when I need one?
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 7:39 AM Nee writes:

I gotta comment....

On the English issue....One of the pet peeves I have and it is a biggie...I am sure it has been stated before as well, on this blog. It does no immigrant,legal or not, to be catered to in regard to language. I am sick to death of going in to any store and people cannot speak english but hold a job. I actually had to go behind a counter at a kiosk becaue the indian man there could not even make change. I am tired of seeing spanish on my spices, spanish on the aisle signs,etc...and I am very tired of going to a fast food place and ordering three happy meals with shakes and coming away with two...How will they ever assimilate if they don't learn English? No Asians who come here expect food labels to have Japanese, chinese, vietnamese on anything because they understand what is expected.
Where the hell else can illegal immigrants demonstrate for rights they do not deserve and not get arrested? Only in America!!
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:21 AM Peppermint writes:

Nee

I know what you mean. Another one that frosts me is when you buy some appliance and get a big, fat manual because parts are Spanish and other parts English. Every thing you buy today has instructions in both languages. And,like you said, there are no Japanese or other instructions in any other language. It's maddening.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:24 AM Peppermint writes:

glasser

You make a good point. This whole illegal alien thing is so unfair to the people who have come here legally and have to wait and pay like any other legally immigrating person.

Last night I saw a story where the legal Mexicans are angry about all these illegals coming here and getting free education.

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:28 AM Peppermint writes:

Sheila

Yep. There always will be those who want to demonize us not matter what. It's sickening to say the least.
What happened many years ago has nothing to do with today where illegals are treated as if they had special rights, instead of the lawbreakers that they are. If they can openly march in the streets demanding rights they don't have, it certainly does not reflect anything to do with a couple of centuries ago.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:32 AM Peppermint writes:

anti socialist

You bring up a real sore spot with me. I recall the outrageous and horrible racism reflected in the cartoons by the left, but where was the outrage?
It passed with barely a notice by the MSM. And, it was some of the worst racism I've seen in our modern times. But,because it came from the leftist papers it was given a pass. Disgusting.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:38 AM Snooper writes:

How DARE you!

Speaking logically is NOT politically correct not is it acceptable to the Multi-cultural Nazis.

GREAT post.

A few illegal aliens were plotting against our soldiers in New Jersey but I guess that is OK to the illegal alien support Nazis.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:45 AM Peppermint writes:

Hi Snooper

Yeah, a non PC article. I'm surprised I'm not thrown off TH for it.
I noticed that, that the jihadists were illegal. Then the left wonders why we are against this ridiculous invasion. As I said somewhere we don't even know how many AQ are in here.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:00 AM Purplegimp writes:

Language

We are also having similar language issues here. Back when the country was just starting out, every new immigrant (and there were many) was expected to learn Hebrew. Hebrew was even taught in Hebrew because there were so many immigrants who spoke so many different languages.
Much as in America, the parents spoke their original language at home, but made a great effort to use Hebrew every place else. Their children grew up to understand the old language, but often had trouble speaking it. By the next generation, it was all Hebrew. There's an old joke that Israel is the only country where mothers learn the 'mother tongue' from their children. And it just happens to be true.
Then,there was the 1990 influx of Russians. Where the Russians who arrived in the 1970s prided themselves on Learning the language and becoming Israelis, the 1990 version wasn't having it. I find it amusing that so many Russians of the 1970s detest and scorn the ones from the 1990s. Are they racists? All are Russians. I've even seen some of the 1970 ones be exceedingly rude to the newer ones who insisted on speaking Russian.
As in America, I can not for the life of me understand why they want to come here if they don't want to change anything.If you don't want to make the effort needed to assimilate, stay where you are.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:17 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp

Exactly. Stay in your own country if you want to keep your own language, culture, etc. There is no reason to come here then.

All the immigrants years ago assimilated into the American way of life. They were happy to do. They loved America and what opportunities it presented them.

Not so today, the illegals want to have their own country within a country.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:26 AM Bradford_ writes:

Nee and Peppermint

"Another one that frosts me is when you buy some appliance and get a big, fat manual because parts are Spanish and other parts English. Every thing you buy today has instructions in both languages. And,like you said, there are no Japanese or other instructions in any other language. It's maddening."

Why. The fact that Spanish is spoken by 40 million people in the US (the majority of them legal US citizens, and many of whose ancestors were speaking Spanish in the Southwest were here BEFORE the US annexed those areas in 1848) and the fact that we have an illegal immigration problems are two separate issues.

Who cares if appliance manuals are part Spanish. Is it that big a deal?

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:28 AM Bradford_ writes:

Purplegimp

"Stay in your own country if you want to keep your own language, culture, etc. There is no reason to come here then."

What about all those Spanish speakers and their descendents who have been here for centuries (before YOUR ancestors Purplegimp imported English)?

Most Spanish speakers were here and have as much right to be here as YOU do.

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:29 AM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

Moot point. English is the language of our country and has been for centuries now.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:40 AM Peppermint writes:

Bradford

This is America whether you want to admit to it or not. We speak English here. Spanish people should make the effort to speak English, learn the language. It doesn't do them a bit of good not to learn it and assimilate into our country so they can move up on the economic ladder. Continuing to speak a language that is not this country's is a deterrent to getting better jobs. Your condoning the practice is not very constructive, it will just keep them down on the social/economic ladder.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:24 AM Frigglesnitz writes:

HOT-BUTTON ISSUE?

Our Congress has absolutely no idea just how hot a hot-button issue can get.

I have one representative who seems to understand -- truly understand -- my concerns about this treachery.

Congress has sidestepped this subject for 20 years, letting it fester, letting the illegal aliens come in, stay in, slop at the public trough, rape, pillage, murder, run drugs, all seemingly with absolute impunity. Now that fester is putrifying. It stinks. We should let our lawmakers know about it just in case they haven't smelled the decay.

Do our U.S. lawmakers truly believe the citizenry at large is so stupid that we don't see what's going on?

We have Navarrette howling because Lou Dobbs apparently used his (Dobbs') employer's Internet site to try to get donations for Hazleton, PA's defense. What he does not seem to realize or care is that it was the ACLU and Hispanic groups who were suing Hazleton in the first place because the town was simply doing its civic duty. With no help from the Feds, I might add.

Article IV, Section 4. I believe I will preface every one of my letters to my lawmakers in Washington with those lines. Do you suppose they will understand them?

Thank you for a beautifully written and anger-inspiring blog. But this anger is going to be directed to the correct place -- right in the laps of those who are refusing to protect us against invasion. (And what about those cretins who were going to storm Fort Dix -- weren't they here illegally?)
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:37 AM Frigglesnitz writes:

BY THE WAY, ABOUT ENGLISH


At least one of my ancestors landed here before 1776. At least one of my ancestors was already here when the Colonies were being populated: a Native Indian. I don't know for sure, but I imagine the Irishman she married communicated in other ways than grunting, gesturing or other forms of marital communicating. I believe that way of communication was English, the Irishman having already been here for some years.

English is our language. I do wish that our invaders could understand that. Don't they realize what a negative effect they're having, not ever learning to speak the language of our country?
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 12:07 PM Peppermint writes:

Frigglesnitz

Thanks so much for coming by and leaving two very good posts.

Yes, I believe those jihadists, some of them, were illegals. This is another issue. We don't even know who in the heck is in here plotting our demise.

It makes no sense to me to be keeping our borders wide open and letting people in here after 9/11.

The pols don't give a darn about us. Some do, but they are few.

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 1:17 PM Purplegimp writes:

Bradt*rd

For your information, stupid, my ancestors were there long before just about anyone elses. To bring you up to speed, the Jews were kicked out of Spain at about the same that Chris Columbus sailed west, and some were with his merry band. The few who made the trip stayed just ahead of the Spanish (gee, I wonder why) as they went west and eventually north. My ancestors eventually ended up in Maine, where not a little Indian got into the mix. Guess who met the Mayflower and had a distant relative who financially supported the revolution, and was mentioned in the history text book I had in school?
As usual, there you go spouting off about things you know nothing about. Why don't you go bury yourself in a deep hole? I've absolutely had it with you and your self righteous obnoxious attitude. So, idiot, whose ancestors arrived there speaking Spanish? And for your information, I speak, read, write, and type Hebrew fluently. Had I wanted to continue speaking English I would have stayed over there (where I was born) and not come here. So just shut the he double hockey sticks up.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 1:58 PM Peppermint writes:

Hey Brad

You need to move on and off the language mantra.
English is the language of our country. You're starting to sound like a one note chorus.

And, don't be so offensive to my guests on this blog. I don't like you offending Purplegimp. She is a guest here as you are.

There were Indians here before all of us. Perhaps we should be speaking Iroquis with your line of argument which isn't making any sense to anyone.

And, bringing up the history of this or that, makes no sense in today's world. It's like trying to blame slavery on people today who had nothing to do with slavery years ago.

Why you are arguing for people to be able to speak Spanish and live in a country that speaks English doesn't even make sense.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 3:21 PM Purplegimp writes:

Peppermint

Thanks for the kind words. I'm sorry I blew my top. It just really gets me going when someone assumes things about me or anyone else for that matter.
Years ago I ran into a gal who turned out be a very distant over here a few a years ago and we had a very short go around on 'the my people were in America before yours' circuit. We looked at each other and said at the same time "Spanish/Indian?" It was really cool when we traced things back and found the common relative. I also found one from Uruguay, but, sadly, we've not been in touch for years.
Hows about we all just speak Abenaki? Nice Maine tribe. Passamaquoddy could be good too.
Oh, and Brad, you never the less are an arrogant jerk. I did mean that part.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 4:01 PM J-Dawg writes:

*scratches head*

"What about all those Spanish speakers and their descendents who have been here for centuries (before YOUR ancestors Purplegimp imported English)?"

That is some deep ancestry, fella.

If everyone religiously followed Brads logic here, we'd all be speaking thus:

"Ug, Korg hit u hed wit club, drag wommin in cave, make go zug-zug."

Fact of the matter is that "we" won. As such, "we" got to make the rules. One of those was that if you want to join "us", you WILL do x, y & z, including learning to speak tha language "we" chose. Weren't Swahili, Lakota or Tagalog. English. Sadly, "we" are collectively losing the (for Brad's sake) 'cojones' to stand up and defend our cultural inheritance.

Pepp et. al., if reading one of those manuals is frustrating, I can only imagine the holy hell of seeing the posters at the polling place. And OMG, ATM machines too. Grrr.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 4:09 PM Goshawk writes:

Pep

Nice blog and I agree with your assessment. Just spot read the comments as I don't have time to read them all.

I think true Conservatives understand the importance of protecting our borders and stopping any invasion by Illegal Aliens. If it were up to me, I would not allow these "Aliens" to march in our streets! Let alone demand anything!!

And look how this administration allows the Mexican president to dictate border policy. The jailing of our border agents! Failing to do anything about building the border fence! The whole thing is sickening!
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 5:12 PM DavidMac writes:

purplegimp

Nicely done!

Bradf@rt's posts contain a common essence that all the lib/socialists' posts contain: a sneering holier-than-thou self-righteous sanctimony that grates like the fingernails on the blackboard.

You nailed him that time!

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 5:23 PM Peppermint writes:

J-Dawg

You nailed it with what you said. We make the rules, this is our country, not these illegals who come in here trying to change the way we do things. How bizarre is that?
Your comments were quite funny.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 5:24 PM Peppermint writes:

Goshawk

Thanks for stopping by in your busy day. I know we all want this stopped, at least most of the people I know.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 5:25 PM Peppermint writes:

DavidMac

Yes indeed it starts to feel like that after awhile, nails on the old blackboard.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 6:22 PM Peppermint writes:

To all

If you come back around I just posted Chapter 19 of Juliet's diary.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 6:39 PM xpressit writes:

Peppermint

Well, pepp, they are starting to use churches to harbor illegals. Do they consider the rest of the congregation?
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 7:08 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Its a tough issue

As to keeping illegals out... No arguments here. What to do with those who have established lives here, I'll admit, I'm torn on. I don't like breaking the law, but I also have a hard time uprooting these folks. It admittedly seems contrary to what this nation is about... Any further thoughts?
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 7:54 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

I don't suppose they are taking into account the other people. I'm somewhat bowled over that churches are doing this and breaking the law.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 7:56 PM Peppermint writes:

VaDaddy

I don't know what to say to that. I guess if they are illegal then the whole family should be removed. I guess I come down on how fair is it to people who wait their turn to get in here legally and have gone through the correct channels.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 7:58 PM The Crawfish writes:

breaking up families

They chose to make families with illegals. They face the consequences. Same-same for those that come over the border to drop out a baby to gain auto-citizenship. (first of all, that needs to be changed...citizenship to the baby only if the parents are here legally) If you're here illegally, too bad, so sad, GET OUT NOW!!!!!
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 8:46 PM Bradford_ writes:

Hey purplegimp

It's a debate, not some kind of personal assault. Clearly you have a sore spot when it comes to this issue for some reason. But I apologize if I hurt your feelings; clearly Peppermint's blog aspires to a higher, more civilized tone than that. Go read her stories if you don't believe me.

J-Dawg nails it. THIS is what the illegals debate is really about-- cultural inheritance. At least he's honest and doesn't dance around the issue with crocodile tears about law-breaking and such.

"Fact of the matter is that "we" won. As such, "we" got to make the rules. One of those was that if you want to join "us", you WILL do x, y & z, including learning to speak tha language "we" chose. Weren't Swahili, Lakota or Tagalog. English. Sadly, "we" are collectively losing the (for Brad's sake) 'cojones' to stand up and defend our cultural inheritance."

This is what it comes down to. "Us" versus "them."

Pepp: "We make the rules, this is our country, not these illegals who come in here trying to change the way we do things."

It was never 'your' country Pepp. It's always been bought and paid for by the fat cats who, like flies on cow s**t, make their home in the Republican party. And for some utterly bizarre reason, you continue to bow down to and support them, even though that same Republican-inclined business elite is throwing you under the bus Pepp, and ALWAYS will. They're taking your jobs away from you and giving them to people who are willing to work them for a tenth of what you will and you *still* don't get it. All you can do is scapegoat the newest set of victims.

I'm done with this sh**; ya'll are just too blind ed by your "cultural inheritance."







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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 9:39 PM Peppermint writes:

Brad

Nobody on here is defending the repubs actions on the border issue. If you read with out the bias in your eye you'd see that. Conservatives are pretty ticked at both parties.

But if you think the dims are going to make it better you are kidding yourself.

Conservatives are looking for a candidate who is going to secure the borders and stop the invasion.

Like I told you earlier on this blog, our own rhino senator Voinivich has a failing grade on this issue. Did you pay attention Brad? Did you read when I said I don't give any of them a pass on this and that includes Bush?

It seems you only read what fits into your version of what a conservative is.

J-Dawg said just what everyone else believes. People just put it in different ways.

As far as Purplegimp, you directly addressed her with your comment needling her. It's unnecessary. Everyone on this blog has been having a civilized debate.

You've been pretty polite for the most part and debated in a civilized manner, but then you had to start needling people. I'm glad to see you did issue an apology to her.

And, people do get it Brad, that these illegals are being brought in here for slave labor. Is that what you want for these people? None of us wants that. And, we know they are taking jobs away. Nobody ever said anything different. But, if you think the repubs alone are doing it you are wrong. The dems are doing the same. Nancy Pelosi, your House leader employs illegals to work at her vineyards, so she does not have to pay taxes. Both parties are to blame for this issue. Only the dims and Bush are the ones pushing it the most. I've already talked about being thrown under the bus, Brad. It is almost as if you have read nothing I wrote or anyone else. What gives with that.

We see what you are talking about, but it is you who doesn't see the other side of the this, the burden of all the extra taxes people are paying due to the illegals and the crime. How do you not see that. What are you blinded by?

You just might ask yourself that question.

In regard to my Diary, we've already established countless times you don't have a sense of humor.
And telling Purplegimp to read my Diary series is funny. She's in the story and loves it.

There's an article about liberals and their lack of a sense of humor on TH actually today. Maybe you should read it. It's Jon Sanders, "Liberals Don't get the joke, but they'll get the one who made it."

Adieu Brad. And, btw, the French and the Germans are abandoning their socialism because they found it does not work.



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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:11 PM xpressit writes:

two to tango

Yeqa Pepp, he's done till he's back.

B_"It's always been bought and paid for by the fat cats who, like flies on cow s**t, make their home in the Republican party. And for some utterly bizarre reason, you continue to bow down to and support them, even though that same Republican-inclined business elite is throwing you under the bus Pepp, and ALWAYS will. "

Apparently oblivious to what the liberals are doing to encourage it, and their well pandered to base. (which they always want to posit as mainstream America)
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:21 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

An area I may not be so consevative...

Perhaps a soft spot, but I am not sure I am ready to go through that process of finding them all and deporting them when they have developed a fully functioning life here.

Should they be punished somehow? Yes! They need to know they cannot do whatever tehy want, but at the same time, is it fair to put these people back into slums?

Now, we don't know where they came from, certainly, but many did indeed come with the sincere desire to better their lives. They come and live honest and productive lives, even if they broke the law to get here. They broke the law, and should bear just punishment. But I just have a hard time with that in my conscience.

Add to that the enormous burden it would be to round them all up and ship them out. That seems to have many more negative consequences than positive...

But we absoultely need to ensure that those not established or those not here do not become estblished... I agree there are so many waiting their turn, and deserve the chance before those who wish to come in on their own accord.

To me, the truth of the matter is that many have succesfully snuck in. It may "suck", but it is true. It is a tough call...
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:27 PM Peppermint writes:

xpressit

Yeah, don't you love it how Brad seems to be completely devoid of seeing what his party does, the socialists/dems? It's all the repubs. I figure you just can't make sense with him. He must have reading comprehension problems too to have missed what all has been written on here.
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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:31 PM Peppermint writes:

VaDaddy

Well, I can understand having a soft spot. I really doubt that these illegals will get deported.

I do wish the criminals would get deported and not allowed to come back here. They are not here for any positive purpose.

We can have a soft spot in our hearts but how many illegals can we take into this country? And, here we have illegals trying to blow up Ft.Dix.

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Wednesday, May, 09, 2007 10:31 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Va. Daddy:

"They come and live honest and productive lives, even if they broke the law to get here. They broke the law..."

Breaking the law would then make them DIShonest.

There are many more "honest and productive" immigrants doing what is necessary in order to come Here legally and should be rewarded with Liberty. The DIShonest should be "round[ed]..up and ship[ped] out" and if it was from a "slum," then so be it.

Also, how would you define "establish?" Sounds like many more thousands and thousands of pages of laws....
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 1:55 AM Purplegimp writes:

Last reply to Bradt*rd

If you had left a personal reference to me out of it, "before YOUR ancestors Purplegimp imported English)?" I could have happily gone on ignoring your arrogant ignorant self. You are nothing more that a playground bully who unerringly finds exactly the right button to push to get a reaction to your drivel. Never fear, I won't fall for it again.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 2:12 AM J-Dawg writes:

Oh now THIS is rich

"It was never 'your' country Pepp. It's always been bought and paid for by the fat cats who, like flies on cow s**t, make their home in the Republican party."

George Soros comes to mind. Fact of the matter is that all the would-be Robin Hoods think that an absolute equality is even remotely possible. It's completely laughable. As long as there are slackers, Brad, there will be fatcats. That you would only consider to dump on them and not aspire to outdo them, IN the only nation in the World where that is even a REMOTE possibility, doesn't surprise me.

"And for some utterly bizarre reason, you continue to bow down to and support them, even though that same Republican-inclined business elite is throwing you under the bus Pepp, and ALWAYS will."

Ok, I'll be expecting all the Moonbat-owned businesses to pay twice as much for all of their business costs, just so I wont have to pay mine. That is, after all, what you're talking about isn't it? Microsoft, TimeWarner, Disney, the Ford Foundation, ...

"They're taking your jobs away from you and giving them to people who are willing to work them for a tenth of what you will and you *still* don't get it."

Holy Smokes? You mean people who come here illegally work for less than the minimum wage? The answer, obviously, is to let even more people in here illegally. After all, we can't expect people to have to pay $5 for a cheeseburger, even though they earned not a red cent of it. Now if the availablility of buckanhour workers was completely dried up & went away, why then, of course, the lament would be the $5 for the cheeseburger.


"All you can do is scapegoat the newest set of victims."

Which victims are those? The ones in the US border towns who have to live with the illegal gang violence, the crack-babies born to the illegal strumpets who swim the river when their water breaks, the guy who goes to jail doing his job arresting drug smugglers, ...

US vs THEM. You damned skippy. When you start signing my tax payment checks, you'll be free to cover every sniffle from every illegal and post every sign in the coutry in every language you want.

If THEY want this country, they'll have a scrap on their hands.

NO MAS!
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 2:14 AM J-Dawg writes:

Jimmah

I've an idea. Kill many birds with one stone. Execute the illegals in prison & bury them in N'awlins.

?

regards
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 2:28 AM J-Dawg writes:

A compromise I MAY be willing to accept

Illegals living & working here:
Pay back all back taxes & public assistance, renounce government of country of origin, no money can leave the country, swear allegiance to US, all above under penalty of deportation.

You have 5 years to start this process. From 2012 on, anyone w/o this = booted.

Illegals living here not working:
Get a friggin job. All of the above.

Illegals with criminal record:
(including jaywalking)Booted

Illegals in our prisons:
Boarded on a plane & dropped on capitol city of country of origin from 25k.

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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 5:39 AM Peppermint writes:

Purplegimp and J-Dawg

Good comments from both of you.

I do believe that brad has his "victims" a little skewed. Never mind the victims that are here legally like us. Oh, no. That would be too reasonable to think that way.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 9:58 AM Virginia Daddy writes:

Peppermint

Its a tough issue, and I guess I am tryign to work through it myself...

We cannot allow more in. I have no qualms with that, indeed. There are so many problems with letting them in...

The trouble I have is for those who have been in for years already... Who have grown families, who have assimilated and contributed to our society...

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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 10:00 AM Virginia Daddy writes:

Jimmy

I know...

As I have stated, its a tough issue for me. I don't see it as black and white. For the children who were born to illegals and born in this country, what would they take back with them when deported?

We can say its not our problem, and that may be true, but its a question worth asking, especially with the dislike of our nation...
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 2:35 PM Bradford_ writes:

J-Dawg

Funny stuff.

Maybe we could register them all, put them in camps,
make them wear little stars--or better yet, little burrito-shaped badges, and have you and your buddies load the trains.

Virginia Daddy is the only one who speaks sense.

Until you face up to the fact that the powers be WANT cheap illegal labor so they don't have to pay folks decent wages and benefits, you'll continue to sputter and fantasize darkly about your final solutions.

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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 2:38 PM Bradford_ writes:

Purplegimp

"You are nothing more that a playground bully who unerringly finds exactly the right button to push to get a reaction to your drivel."

A bully? Me? When did I bully you? I asked you a question. If that constitutes "bullying" then you need to develop a thicker skin.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 3:59 PM J-Dawg writes:

Brad, Brad, Brad

*sigh*

I, of course, agree (gasp) that the businesses that hire illegals, knowingly or no, should be penalized. Heavily. Legally, they are supposed to inquire, and refuse illegals of work. Unfortunately, THAT piece of legislation is enforced as much as any other immigration legislation is... Rarely. Sure, if businesses get caught, make them pay. Eventually they will get smart and not hire illegals. So much for giving them gainful employment. Makes you sound hypocritical.

"Maybe we could register them all, put them in camps,
make them wear little stars--or better yet, little burrito-shaped badges, and have you and your buddies load the trains."

How many stars do you wear? Badges? Huh. Who'd a thunk it. Registration, as in a SSN? I'm not going to imply that you are THAT ignorant, but I AM going to wonder. So it's good enough for common citizenry, but unspeakable for immaculate criminal. I get it. It's always the perp who gets the pedestal.



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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 3:59 PM Raging Bunny writes:

All

Purplegimp...YOU GO GIRL! Brad, Fatcat industries? LEt me give you a for instance and Purplegimp knows what I'm talking about.

3 months ago my company found out it had an illegal working for them. He was booted to the street, they then went through and got rid of all the rest COMPANY wide. No, they didn't have to pay a fine but they did go and give us 25% payraises to compensate US. We worked overtime everyday until we had enough employees to cover those that were fired. Big business? Yes. This is something that I hope will happen in more companies. Do they hire people to work cheap? No. But then again you have to speak and understand English to do the work I do. All the instructions, maint. books, Ect are in English. Not to mention I train all the people in my department, I speak Spanish, but I train in English.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 4:03 PM Bradford_ writes:

J-Dawg

Glad we agree. Enforcement is the key.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 4:23 PM J-Dawg writes:

Brad

Absolutely. Enforcement, globally, is essential.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 5:23 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

"I feel your pain."

Va. Daddy,

If you personally would like to adopt illegal aliens in order to take care of them, then by all means you should volunteer to it. We, as a Nation, are not obligated by the Constitution to be the world's welfare provider.

Just because aliens came here and had children and built a life illegally should not mean they should be safe from being returned from where they came. It is not America's problem. That is the risk of doing things illegally, being caught and losing everything.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 5:24 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Enforcement at what level?

Another toughy...

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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 5:32 PM J-Dawg writes:

Va Dad

Mmm, at this point, any level beyond jailing our border agents would be an improvement.

I don't see tough, the legislation even recommends (at the least) sentencing. Only problem I see, really, is that judges have to be willing to slow down on hearing 'p!ss-on-the-pledge' cases and focus more on criminal ones.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 5:59 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Jimmy

Again, I understand. That's why I struggle with this...

But what does it say on the Statue of Liberty? "Come all who are..."

I only state this because there is indeed something special about our country, and I think if we become too arrogant and think we can ship folks around at our will, who and what are we?

Now, don't get me wrong, I think these people should pay a price-- illegal is illegal. I am saying I do not think deportation for those who are clearly established is the best copnsequence. I also think we need to be sure others do not get established-- if they jsut came, send 'em back. If they are trying to get through, nope.

I think the problem sucks...
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 6:18 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

I understand...

...the sympathy side of situation. I understand how it can tug at the toughest heart, but reason has to trump this or all Americans will be working in order to provide for every citizen of every corrupt country in the world. Our Southern neighbors will never correct their own government so long as We tolerate the current situation.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

"Give me" does not mean We have to accept/keep them.

"...and I think if we become too arrogant and think we can ship folks around at our will.."

We would not be "ship[ping] folks around at [O]ur will[.]" I too would be concerned it We were discussing Citizens, but We are talking law-breakers. Law-breakers should not have a choice. I, personally, have no sympathy for those who blatantly break the law.

Should We be a Nation of law-breakers? That is in essence what you are proposing if you state that illegals should not be returned home. If you give Citizenship to those who break the law in order to become a Citizen, then by de facto you have legalized crossing the border illegally to become American.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 6:24 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Dawg

I would agree that's a great starting point...
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 6:26 PM Peppermint writes:

Wow

Great discussion going on while I was gone. I have to agree with you Jimmy. As much as it might pull at the heart strings, we have to use reason about this.

We cannot be rewarding people for breaking the law.
I have to wonder when people do come into the country illegally, I have to ask myself some questions:

What does that say about their character with this initial law breaking?

Does it tell us they have no regard for law, for another country's laws?

What regard do illegals have for the citizens who live here?

Do people who come into our country illegally realize they are treading upon someone else when they do so?

What kind of injustice is this for those who are applying to come into this country legally?

Those are just a few questions I have.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 6:53 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

The current situation

DOES need to change.

We are in pickle indeed.

We need to keep the illegals out. We need to stop the influx-- but the unfortunate reality is that many have been here for a long time...

Reason is in this, too. As you may know, I put a lot of stock into reason.

Questions that need to be answered if we take the ship 'em all out approach: how do we find? How do we ship? Are the kids legal? Costs? Time?

These are real and practical considerations... And when you take into consideration what we stand for: freedom, it gets to be a tough call.

I see your point, and think it valid, but these consideratins weigh heavilly as well. Again, not quite black or white.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 6:59 PM Bradford_ writes:

This kind of enforcement?

In 2005, Golden State Fence Co. a multi million-dollar company that bills itself as the “home of the American dream” was raided by the Feds who found that 110 of its 750 employees were illegal aliens

Between 1998 and 2004, Golden State Fence Co., boosted its profits from $60 million to $150 million.

One of Golden State Fence Co.’s big projects was constructing part of a 14-mile border fence between San Diego and Mexico in the late 1990s.

Oh the irony . . .
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:09 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

Yeah, We're going to go...

..in circles here:

"And when you take into consideration what we stand for: freedom..."

Does this mean free from abiding by laws?

The moment an alien crosses the border illegally, they cease to be free because they are now fugitives from justice. No matter how long they may evade the authorities and build a life here, they are still fugitives.

Yes, I do see black and white. Black and white is suppose to keep the "penumbras" out of Our justice system that has led Us to where We are today.



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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:14 PM Peppermint writes:

VaDaddy

"And when you take into consideration what we stand for: freedom, it gets to be a tough call."

Freedom does not mean that people have the right to break our laws and break into our country.

VaDaddy, how many people in this world are not free? And if we were to take in all those people how could we bear it? No other country allows this. Yes, we stand for freedom, but I think helping other countries to place freedom above dictatorships, ruthless regimes and allowing their own citizens to be free in their own countries is more of what we should be doing.

I understand what you are saying. When Bush went into Iraq, I heard the Iraqis come on every news show and tell their stories of horror. Even if there was no WMD, which everyone thought there was at the time, I wanted us to free these people from that kind of torture they were suffering.

Now, it may not be working well just yet. But, I would think that most people would want to stay in their own countries and be free.

The invaders from the south need to protest their own governments to make a better life for themselves.

That's what we did. We had a revolution. Can these people not do this? Can't they fight for this in their own countries? It's not a new idea.
They have to take a stand and fight for themselves in their own countries. Expecting America to do everything is not the answer.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:24 PM Peppermint writes:

VaDaddy

Another thing I might add here is that when people "choose" to invade another country, come into that country illegally, then they ultimately are responsible for the situation in which they find themselves.

They made that choice. They knew when they came here illegally, if caught, they could be deported. It falls on them. They broke the law and continued to break the law by not applying properly for citizen ship.

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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:32 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Trying to avoid the circle...

I'll bow out...

But as a last word, as a Christian, the whole "who's your nieghbor" quesion rings loud.

As I've said all along, this is a tough issue... I won't claim all the answers, certainly, but I do see two primary issues in this debate: one is to keep new ones out and not allow any more to become established; the second is what to do with those who already are. Those who already are should face consequences-- I do not think they should get off free here, not in the slightest. I'm just not sure deportation is the answer.

And we all have a weak point, don't we :)
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:38 PM Peppermint writes:

VaDaddy

Deportation is a moot point anyway. It is not going to happen. It never has in the past. The illegals usually end up staying.

We do need to keep out new ones. I think we all agree on that.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 7:44 PM Jimmy Carter writes:

No,

because I think you are selective in your compassion.

Analogy:

What if someone climbed over your backyard fence and began living in a tent in your yard, would you now allow them to live there indefinitely?

What if you were on vacation away from home for a week and that trsspasser has already established himself for a week?

I think it (the border issue) may be tough for some because it may not immediately affect them at the moment it happens, but the principle is still the same.

America is Our home and We have borders for a reason. The same reason We have fences around Our personal property.

Also, I see nothing wrong with sending illegal aliens HOME.
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Thursday, May, 10, 2007 9:57 PM J-Dawg writes:

Lol. Keep digging

12 million should be around 4% of the general population. Illegals in prison population run averages of around 15%, and in some states over 60%.

That being the case, I think you need a few more examples.

Jimmah: To accurize your analogy, the guy in the yard has also been raiding your larder whilst you were on vacation. Probably raping your cat, as well.
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Wednesday, May, 16, 2007 2:15 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

OK, don't know if true...

But the following was sent to me via email. Its hard to have sympathy/compassion with this...

Here is a REAL INTERVIEW with an illegal Mexican at a protest march in Texas.


Trying to reason with an Illegal Mexican

This is good! Below is a good example of a discussion with a master of circular logic. Don't be logical, don't respect the truth or your adversary, just say what you think makes a new case when the previous case gets too difficult to defend. On the streets of downtown Houston, May 1, 2006.



Jim Moore reporting for a Houston TV station:

Jim: Juan, I see that you and thousands of other protesters are marching in the streets to demonstrate for your cause. Exactly what is your cause and what do you expect to accomplish by this protest?

Juan: We want our rights. We will show you how powerful we are. We will bring Houston to its knees!

Jim: What rights?

Juan: Our right to live here...legally. Our right to get all the benefits you get.

Jim: When did you come to the United States?

Juan: Six years ago. I crossed over the border at night with seven other friends.

Jim: Why did you come?

Juan: For work. I can earn as much in a month as I could in a year in Mexico. Besides, I get free health care, our Mexican children can go to school free, if I lose my job I will get Welfare, and someday I will have the Social Security. Nothing like that in Mexico!

Jim: Did you feel badly about breaking our immigration laws when you came?

Juan: No! Why should I feel bad? I have a right to be here. I have a right to amnesty. I paid lots of money for my Social Security and Green Cards.

Jim: How did you acquire those documents?

Juan: From a guy in Dallas. He charged me a lot of money too.

Jim: Did you know that those documents were forged?

Juan: It is of no matter. I have a right to be here and work.

Jim: What is the "right" you speak of?

Juan: The right of all Aliens. It is found in your Constitution. Read it!

Jim: I have read it, but I do not remember it saying anything about rights for Aliens.

Juan: It is in that part where it says that all men have Alien rights, like the right to pursue happiness. I wasn't happy in Mexico, so I came here.

Jim: I think you are referring to the declaration of Independence and that document speaks to unalienable rights .. Not Alien rights.

Juan: Whatever.

Jim: Since you are demanding to become an American citizen, why then are you carrying a Mexican Flag?

Juan: Because I am Mexican.

Jim: But you said you want to be given amnesty ... to become a US citizen.

Juan: No. This is not what we want. This is our country, a part of Mexico that you Gringos stole from us. We want it returned to its rightful owner.

Jim: Juan, you are standing in Texas. After wining the war with Mexico, Texas became a Republic, and later Texans voted to join the USA. It was not stolen from Mexico.

Juan: That is a Gringo lie. Texas was stolen. So was California, New Mexico and Arizona. It is just like all
the other stuff you Gringos steal, like oil and babies. You are a country of thieves.

Jim: Babies? You think we steal babies?


Juan: Sure. Like from Korea and Vietnam and China. I see them all over the place. You let all these foreigners in, but try to keep us Mexicans out. How is this fair?

Jim: So, you really don't want to become an American citizen then.

Juan: I just want my rights! Everyone has a right to live, work, and speak their native language wherever and whenever they please. That's another thing we demand. All signs and official documents should be in Spanish . Teachers must teach in Spanish. Soon, more people here in Houston will speak Spanish than English. It is our right!

Jim: If I were to cross over the border into Mexico without proper documentation, what rights would I have there?

Juan: None. You would probably go to jail, but that's different.

Jim: How is it different? You said everyone has the right to live wherever they please.

Juan: You Gringos are a bunch of land grabbing thieves. Now you want Mexico too? Mexico has its rights. You Gringos have no rights in Mexico. Why would you want to go there anyway? There is no free medical service, schools, or welfare there for foreigners such as you. You cannot even own land in my country. Stay in the country of your birth.

Jim: I can see that there is no way that we can agree on this issue. Thank you for your comments.

Juan: Viva Mexico!
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Wednesday, May, 16, 2007 3:17 PM Peppermint writes:

VADaddy

I don't know if it's a true interview or a satire. Either way it is good. Within it contains all the things the Mexicans think and believe. So, it sure has truth there.

If it weren't so sad, it would be funny. Too bad this is the kind of logic? we are facing.
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Wednesday, May, 16, 2007 3:18 PM Peppermint writes:

VADaddy

btw, I'm glad you didn't stay mad and came back. I know sometimes the posts can get heated and feelings get bruised.
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Thursday, May, 17, 2007 2:19 PM Virginia Daddy writes:

Peppermint

I was never mad, and don't worry-- it really takes a lot to really get me going...

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Thursday, May, 17, 2007 4:32 PM davecatbone writes:

Peppermint

I'm sorry about your son, you have my prayers.
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Thursday, May, 17, 2007 4:54 PM Peppermint writes:

VADaddy

I'm glad you are all right with things. And, good to see you back here.
Now with this new bill being put forth on illegals I would think there is further discussion now.
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Thursday, May, 17, 2007 4:55 PM Peppermint writes:

davecat

Thanks. We need all the prayers we can get.
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