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Comment on: ANTI-LIBERAL ZONE

On Capitalism

81 Comments
Monday, August, 25, 2008 10:47 PM Redhead writes:

Further irony

Good piece, Gunny!

It is very ironic that under a Capitalistic, freedom loving system you are free to organize and form your own little hippy communes, and many have tried and failed.
But try to set up a capitalistic system within a communist country and you'll be sent to jail! (If you're lucky.)
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Monday, August, 25, 2008 10:58 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Redhead

Thanks and I agree. The commies will give you the business all right, chopping trees in Siberia.
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Monday, August, 25, 2008 10:59 PM clyde writes:

Gunny

Take a bow,well done! These liberals who pine for a life under socialist rule obviously have never spoken to those that have had to. Talk to any Cuban who was lucky enough to make it across,they'll tell you just how glorious living there was.These azshats wearing the Che shirts wouldn't last 10 minutes under a Castro regime.All that DO wear the butchering pig's face on their shirt do so out of EXTREME ignorance.Another thing,why is it these union people don't seem to realize if the company THEY are working for is successful, they will be too. Economic education seems to be non-existant these days,all the better for the enemies of THE BEST system known to spread THEIR ignorance EVEN FURTHER.
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Monday, August, 25, 2008 11:25 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

Union workers are inherently lazy. They're in a system that rewards and covers for incompetence. They seek inflated wages for jobs that simply don't rate and thus, pass that on to the comsumers, who, in a free market economy, go elsewhere.

I read somewhere that about 8K in the cost of an american made car is to cover union benefits, etc. And then they make a sh*tty product on top of THAT!
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Monday, August, 25, 2008 11:35 PM Neotrotsky writes:

Great!

The left just doesn't get it.
Great Blog
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Monday, August, 25, 2008 11:36 PM YLG writes:

Well, Gunny...

I can just hear the libs screaming:

BUT IT HASN'T BEEN TRIED HERE!!!!

Sorry, I'll pass. I would rather be the sheepdog, than the sheep, anyday.

BTW, clyde, I don't have to go far to ask a Cuban. My uncle fled from that murderous b*st*rd, thanks be to God. Of course, if you ask a lib to find a Cuban, they'll ask why they need to go find the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Or worse: ask what Clinton's cigars have to do with anything....

;-)
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 12:32 AM navymom writes:

Why don't they

understand that, without capitalism, their contributors would be non-existent! The redistribution of wealth is only possible if people have money...gee, how did they get it , again? The disconnect between cause and effect seems to be a prerequisite to belonging to the Democrat party. Any more surprises?
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:19 AM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

again you stretch communism to cover any opinions that don't fit your narrow views. It's getting old. Your overuse of words like socialism and communism just show that you have no idea what they mean. I'm not a democrat (sorry, "dhimmocrat" - very clever!) but lately they've been making a lot more sense than fake conservatives such as yourself. If you were an actual conservative you would support making sure Mc Senile does not get elected.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 2:04 AM DavidMac writes:

Gunny

As to "not going to tell you" comment: This election, more than any other, is a national referendum on capitalism vs. socialism. Obama is a socialist, McCain is a capitalist.

Certainly, "communism" in its purest sense (a classless and stateless society) has never actually been achieved, but socialism (in many shapes and sizes) has. National Socialism (Nazi) and the USSR were the two heavyweights. Look where they are now.

If "not" thinks that Obama isn't a socialist, he's got a lot more thinking to do. Electing a RINO like McCain is infinitely better than a died-in-the-wool socialist like Obama. Like it or not, it's come down to the fact that one of them will be sitting in the Oval Office in January '09 and it better be McCain.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:53 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Neotrotsky

Thanks for visiting and commenting. I'll swing by your blog later and check it out.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:53 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

YLG

THAT is exactly what they'd say. You know the enemy well. Kudos.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:54 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

navymom

It's their absolute suspension of reality and facts plus a dose of denial thrown in.

Thanks for posting.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:56 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

NGTTY and CADAY5

"again you stretch communism to cover any opinions that don't fit your narrow views. It's getting old."

SO stay over at dailykooks and moveyourbowelsdotorg. It's like me changing the channel with O-Vomit comes on.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:58 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

DavidMac

I agree, like it or not. McShamnesty isn't a Conservative but once again, we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils and Oblahblah and his racist twin Michelle are the worse of the three.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 7:07 AM edmartinonline writes:

Judgmentalism

All to many liberals sit in judgement of the hard working Americans who struggle to survive each day. Rather than accomplish something these people find the path of least resistence to be criticism. Some are true idealists and truly want a better world, but they are often niave and misguided. Others are just bitter, nasty people who think themselves Angels sitting at the right hand. What a messed up situation.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 8:42 AM MD/MG writes:

think grasshopper

and ant, the old Aesop[?] fable. You get what you work for. My husband is at the point in his, very successful, career, where almost every week he gets at least one company looking to recruit him. That wouldn't happen under any of the 'isms.

These people who don't like capitalism are free to move to any of the communist/socialist countries of their choosing. In fact, I'm sure they would be treated like celebrities? Funny thing I don't see any takers.

Shoot, it would probably be cheaper for all of us capitalists to purchase a one-way ticket to the country of their choice. They wouldn't need to pack anything, since all they need will be provided for them when they get there. Leaves us alone to enjoy our snse of accomplishment.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 9:22 AM caday5 writes:

Gunny I

I guess you were inviting a response. With regards to capitalism vs socialism, I could swing either way. What you seem to forget is that whatever human venture we take, there are tradeoffs. And my problem is that there are capitalists and socialists who lack any awareness of the problems caused by their systems. Thus they either are blind to or have no concern for the abuses caused by their respective systems.

Capitalism, as presented here, is described as being divinely guided by certain principles that can be pursued to their ends without worry. We don't have to worry about hurting others when pursuing profit so long as we don't break any laws. We only need to be concerned about ourselves. And when we only need to be concerned about ourselves, then the sky is the limit. In the Capitalism that is presented here, the more selfish you are, the more successful you become.

That is hardly Biblical. Jesus said that we should not make our treasures on earth where we can lose them to rust and theft. Furthermore, Jesus said that our regard for Him is measured by how we treat those in need. Jesus constantly challenged the rich to sell what they have and follow him. In I John chapter 2, John tells us that those who love the world do not have the love of God. And we are all familiar with the the passage that says "the love of money is the root of all evil."

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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 9:23 AM caday5 writes:

Gunny II

In addition, when we reduce any part of life, let alone all of life, to one principle, not only do we place limits on our own thinking, we imply that the finite can comprehend the infinite. That is our limited understanding as expressed by the principles we promote are used to explain all of life. Such is your reducing all of what could be said about capitalism to profit. So what I see in your logic, there neither moral concern involved in capitalism nor is there any sense of social responsibility because profit, according to you, should be our sole concern. And if profit is our only concern, there is no need to be concerned about others or anything else.

What is forgotten is that because our environment is finite, the more one person makes a profit, the less becomes available to others. As less becomes available to others, their survival becomes at risk and this breeds conflict.

What else is forgotten is what Jesus said. He said that the whole law rests on our love for God first and our love for our neighbor second. He also said that we are to seek God's kingdom rather than one's selfish ambitions.

So what do you think?
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 10:44 AM skep41 writes:

Liberals See It Differently

The Conservative story line is Horatio Alger-- Upward Mobility through hard work and giving to the community. The Liberal story-line is one of Downward Mobility; the lament of the victim. Everyone in the liberal lexicon is like someone Hillary Clinton 'bumped into' who's only hope is a government bail out.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 11:12 AM Apollyon67 writes:

Cad

So what you are saying is that Jesus wants us all to be poor. How then do we help our fellow man if we can't even help ourselves? If a man makes a profit, he is also bound to invest said profit. Remember the Parable of the master and the money he gave to his servants? He was mad at the fellow that buried it. Yes I understand that some folks equate that to His teachings, but I believe He also meant our talents as well. Sorry Gunny. I will now go to the blackboard and write 1000 times "Don't feed the Trolls"
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 11:57 AM The Godfather I writes:

On the money

as usual Gunny. I know the libs and dims hate our great President George W Bush but I have to quote him here. "Free Enterprise and Freedom are one and the same." Might not have gotten that quite right. So let me say paraphrase instead. But you can't have one without the other. If you don't have your own money no matter how small it may be, you are never free. I think don't want to tell you should change his name to don't want to know.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 12:04 PM nanna writes:

GunnyG

Very well said. Written from the heart, and so very true!! Amen.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:01 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Ed

Well said. The old double standard is bone deep in the liberal party. Hitlery runs screen for Bubba and his Johnson but Mrs Leftwards is castigated.

When you become expendable in the dhimmicrat party, watch out!
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:02 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

MD/MG

Nope, liberals prefer to just b*tch and moan, never actually DOING what they say they will, i.e., limo libs moving to France, etc.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:02 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

skep41

Democrats = the lament of the victim.
Priceless.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:04 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

The Godfather I

Exactly. But then again, liberals do not WANT us to be free, they want slaves to the party, nothing more.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 1:04 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

nanna

Thanks. I'm a dedicated capitalist, always was, always will be. THAT is why I hate liberalism so much.

They're so stupid they're dangerous.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 2:17 PM Steve writes:

Dear GunnyG

Very good dissertation indeed. Congratulations.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 3:13 PM beachmom writes:

It's simple Gunny

Capitalism is only good if it's practiced by libs like Pelousy. Don't you know the rest of us are too stupid to use money properly?
Only libs know that. Only libs know how to handle the power that comes with success properly.
Of course, then it's not really capitalism. It's more like a benevolent job provider.


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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 3:16 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Steve

Thanks. Been thinking about it for awhile as I listened to the libidiots mewl and whine about "obscene profits."
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 3:17 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

beachmom

You got that right. Always remember that when dealing with the libs, "some pigs are more equal than others." Like their commie brethren, THEY are THE PARTY, we are the proles.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 3:23 PM beachmom writes:

And,

pigs don't know pigs stink.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 5:30 PM Third Eye writes:

Gunny

Great Post!
You said "capatalism isn't sexy", and I think that is a big part of the issue.
In some cultures you barter even for your daily food. A price is arrived at day to day and even hour to hour. The people are directly involved in capitalism.
The same thing happens here, but in a very indirect way. The consumer still rules in that if something is priced too high, it quits selling. To most, capitalism is an abstract concept that is more confusing than sexy.

The left takes advantage of the confusion with their class warfare. The politics of equal outcome. (with that annoying sidebar that some will be more equal than others.)
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 5:36 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Third Eye

Indeed. It's also the fault of the GOP that THEY aren't taking the message home on what capitalism IS and how it benefits us!
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 6:23 PM caday5 writes:

Apollyon67

Can you only think in boolean terms?

First, I said I could swing between capitalism or socialism because both have tradeoffs.

Second, what I objected to was the kind of Capitalism that reduces everything down to making a profit. There are other factors involved besides making a profit.

I would add that Gunny's approach says that we act and speak one way on Sunday and a completely different way from Monday to Friday and never the twain shall meet. I don't think that is Biblical.

So the question for you is does God want us to be rich at someone else's expense?
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 9:05 PM not going to tell you writes:

gay racist steve

what a surprise that you'd come out (pun intended) with another accolade for gunny. Do you think communism and socialism (different btw) are the root cause of every opinion you disagree with as well?

No one answered my question about why a "real" conservative would let McCain get elected.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 9:29 PM Redhead writes:

caday

Stop trying to force your morals down my throat!!!

Isn't that the liberal response to most Religious Right proposed legislation?

If everyone is poor, who are you going to tax to pay for everyone else's health care?
Your precious government can not produce like the Individual Entrepreneur can, acting in his own best interest.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 10:22 PM sheepdog1 writes:

Gunny

Can't get on your blog at work but at least I can at home. Great blog. I remember an old saying..."show a man to fish he'll eat for a day..Teach a man to fish he'll eat for a lifetime. Thanks for keeping the liberals on their toes even if they hate it.

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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 10:26 PM nanna writes:

Not going to tell you

The reason this REAL conservative will let McCain get elected, is to keep Obama OUT!! If Obama gets in, he will do so much damage, it will take years to get our country and it's freedoms back.
Obama is already trying to remove freedom of speech through the Dept. of Justice, over an election ad. What in this would do you think he would do if he was president, and didn't like what someone says??
No McCain isn't my top choice by any stretch of the imagination, but he is miles higher than Obama, in so many important ways.
I was totally against McCain, and I said I would write in Fred Thompson, but now I realize how dangerous Obama is, and I will vote for McCain. My little sacrifice for God and country!!
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 10:53 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

sheepdog

Thanks amigo. They HATE it and I love it that they hate it.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 11:00 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

caday5

The whole point of this essay soared over your head like an essay on ethics and morals at the DNC convention.

The point IS, is that capitalism, when combined with religious teachings, parental guidance, and a strong values system produces citizens well capable of contributing to the needs of others through FREE WILL not government edicts.

I'll stack up the contributions of MYSELF and MY FAMILY over YOU or any other liberal ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Care to try it?

I make about 100K a year through pension, VA disability, and my full time job.

We contribute to:

USO
AmVets
LE/MC scholarships (El Rushbo's charity)
DAV
Bishop's Lenten Appeal
Rice Bowl for Asia
Clothing and food drives for local and state charities.

While on active duty, military members, most making about 20K a year, were supporting three orphanages, one on Oki, one in Korea, and one in Thailand, with food, money, and clothes.

As I stated, I sincerely hope that you'll grow up one day and smell the coffee.
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Tuesday, August, 26, 2008 11:51 PM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

i agree with you about caday - i never thought I'd say that, but you're right.

Now vote for Obama.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 12:16 AM caday5 writes:

Gunny

Perhaps you missed a point to. You allow capitalism to control how you make the money but allow religion to determine how to help people after you made the money.

The problem is your help does how much good when capitalism enables some to benefit at the expense of others. If you are benefiting at other people's expense, you charitable donations become nothing more than indulgences.

Again, you are a capitalist from Monday to Friday but a church person only one day a week. This assumes that there is nothing wrong with making making a profit not just the bottom line but the only line.

You do not realize that the basic tenet of capitalism, which is to seek your own treasure here regardless of how others suffer, is antithetical to Christianity.

You also fail to account for the stakeholders of capitalism and how not all are beneficiaries. In the end, capitalism often succeeds by abusing labor and, in today's world, the environment. That is because with profits being the only line, it matters not that you have capitalism thriving off of sweatshops and slave labor or in places that have no environmental regulations.

So no, the point didn't sail over my head. I believe you missed my point. Donations are nothing but an attempt to appease a guilty conscience when riches are gained by abusing others.

In addition, you might want to read what Jesus says about how his followers don't show off their "righteous" giving and praying. Face it Gunny, we are equals.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 8:51 AM philosophocon writes:

c5, I'm afraid that many of your

arguments are, with all due respect, simply displays of ignorance with respect to economics. For instance:

"What is forgotten is that because our environment is finite, the more one person makes a profit, the less becomes available to others."

That is nonsense of the Malthusian/Marxist variety. First of all, what is profit, anyway? Profit is simply that amount of return you get that exceeds your input. In financial terms, you invested your money and it grew to an amount greater than your original investment.

Or think of it another way. A farmer plants his crops and through his labour and inputs gets more out of it than he put in. He keeps some seeds for next year's planting and otherwise enjoys the fruits of his labours. If your statement were true, then all he'd get back was what he put in, i.e. enough seeds for the harvest. No society survives or thrives on that, period. Profit seems to have acquired some negative connatations for you, not surprisingly in today's world. Think in terms of something else then, the surplus return of labour without which we're all hunter-gatherers.

Let's again look at your original statement using agriculture as an example, because arable land is and historically has been a finite resource for most countries. Throughout the centuries innovations in agriculture, from developments in plows, crop rotation and up to modern fertilizers, methods and equipment, have constantly been increasing the amount that a given, finite piece of land can produce. Otherwise Europe wouldn't have been able to support a population greater than in Roman times. Nothing was taken away from anyone else, everyone gains.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 9:12 AM philosophocon writes:

c5, continued.

That was one example of where developments in one specific field, agriculture, benefitted everyone. The reason these developments occurred were because it was in the farmer's self-interest to develop and adopt them. Many of these developments took place in what would not be considered free-market capitalist economies, but those involved were all pursuing the profit motive. They looked after themselves, and in return were better able to look after others. In today's terms we call this increased productivity, getting more output per input.

Gunny has provided an example of a development that cuts across almost everything, the lightbulb. Prior to the electric light, most activities were restricted based on the available daylight. Once the electic light became widely adopted, all kinds of activities could now take place at night or in new locations. The same people could now do more things and new things, producing more goods and services for general consumption from the pool of existing resources.

Again, every society needs 'profit' to operate because if you don't get more than you put in, you don't get anywhere and there's no slack so when things go wrong, people die. Look at what happened in Russia with the forced collectivization of farms, famine and 20-30 million deaths. Or Burma, the world's leadin rice exporter in the 60's reduced to being a net importer thanks to the military junta's command and control economy.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 9:19 AM philosophocon writes:

c5, conclusion

To conclude, capitalism provides a means to both increase productivity and determine how the benefits of this productivity (the dreaded 'profits') are distributed. Obviously, there are winners and losers. However in capitalism the greatest determing factor in who wins or loses are the individuals themselves, do they work and become productive contributors to society or don't they? Because it's in your own self-interest to be a productive member of society, most do.

That is why capitalism has provided for the greatest amount of winners of any system, and they win more because there is more to go around. And when people are unable to be productive, they 'lose', for certain reasons, disease, disability, widow, orphan, etc., there are many winners prepared to help them if society develops people of good character. And an economic system does not develop character, good or bad. If you have good people, you there will be plenty of charity in a capitalist society, and plenty of resources to be charitable with.

If you look at socialism/communism, they tend to focus almost exclusively on the outcomes, i.e. how the profits from labour are to be divided. The lack of focus on productivity means that there are far fewer goods available for distribution, and the method of distribution creates further disincentives to productivity. That's why in the 20th century countries with lots of arable land, Russia, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe and China have found themselves unable to feed their populations, much less provide things above and beyond basic sustenance. There is far less to go around, and so there is much less to be charitable with, even if the character of the people are as good or better than assumed above.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 11:09 AM caday5 writes:

philosophocon I

Regarding your first point, regardless of whether my point is marxist or not, it is scriptural. Only God is infinite while his creation is finite.

Another point is that you seem to confuse renewable resources with infinite resources. Even with renewable resources such as crops and some sources of energy, though they are renewable, they are still finite. Mathematically speaking, there is only so much oil that can be obtained, there is only so much food you can grow at one time and so forth. Inovations might allow us to reset the upper limit of our capacity to produce, but we still have an upper limit. So you have not convinced me that my first point was false.

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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 11:11 AM caday5 writes:

philosophocon II

Second, your following statement:

"That is why capitalism has provided for the greatest amount of winners of any system, and they win more because there is more to go around."

really depends on your criteria for winner. Certainly capitalism has created some wealthy people and the greatness of their wealth can be very impressive. But capitalism also creates the greatest discrepancy between the "winners" and the "losers". Some don't see this because capitalism has the tendency to hide many of its losers. Included in the stakeholders of capitalism are the sweatshop and slave laborers who toil in poverty while we are distracted by the wealth of the winneres and the carrots that are dangled before us. Often, these victims are from other countries as the "profit is not the bottom line, it is the only line" mentality moves manufacturing to where they can get the cheapest labor and invest the least into environmental controls. The latter includes people who suffer from the release of pollution from manufacturing into the stakeholders club of capitalism--remember that in Organizations, all who are affected or have contact are stakeholders.

BTW, we haven't seen what socialism can do. Variations of it have been mixed with totalitarianism such as what we saw from the Soviet Union while other forms have been under constant military attack by those advocating capitalism. All of this leads me to believe that Capitalism's Kryptonite is competition. It's an ironic world afterall.

I do believe that like capitalism, socialism has its own set of faults.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 12:08 PM Steve writes:

From Homophobic, Biracial Steve

Dear Philosophicon: Very good column as well. However, in this blog, you wind up either preaching to the choir or, in the case of our resident trolls, casting pearls before swine! But to those of us who can look beyond the maunderings of Noam Chompsky, Jihad Wright and Karl "The Good Father" Marx, your words are appreciated.

Dear Caddy: Look; no one doubts your sincerity or intelligence. That, at least, is a step up from the run-of-the-mill libtroller. But your repetitive advocacy of Liberation Theology is drawing a big zero... even among liberals. Trying to marry Christ and Karl Marx is as sad and useless as the concept of any two men "marrying"... only in this case (of course!) in the ideological sense. The message of the Gospels and the utterly materialistic dogma of socialism are immiscible.

Dear Nigitty: As a man once said, "What is a communist but a socialist in a hurry?" Now vote McCain.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 1:31 PM caday5 writes:

Steve

I have never read Marx and the only material I have read by Black theologians was written by Martin Luther King.

In addition, some of what I have said to Gunny can equally apply to some on the left as well. Self-righteousness and feelings of superiority are human traits that we see on both the left and the right.

To Steve and ngtty- be independent and vote Nader--because I said so.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 2:07 PM Buck writes:

Classless Society

Yeah, you can have a classless society.

In a 'classless' society EVERYBODY is poor.

The more you "help the poor" the more the poor will stand by and wait for your help.

There will always be poor.
There may not always be rich, or middle class.

But there will always be poor.

We may be CREATED equal, but what we do after that nativity is our own doing and equality no longer fits the equation.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 3:02 PM caday5 writes:

Buck

Why do some here insist on looking at the world using boolean values. Either we have a range of people from the few super rich down to the rich to the middle class to the lower class to the poor, or we have one class of the poor. We don't have to put things in boolean terms where you have only 2 options.

What people take for granted are the starting points and threats placed on not just socialist attempts but left leaning non socialist societies. Remember that when Russia started, the communists did not start with a large fortune only to make it s small fortune. Then they lost 25 million people in WWII. Then they found themselves in an arms race. Now their totalitarianism was horrible but how well would capitalism do under their circumstances? BTW, you can speculate but no one knows because our capitalists societies did not suffer what they did.

Or take Nicaragua. They turned to a non-totalitarian Communism in reaction to a US backed dictator. Then they suffered terrorist attack after terrorist attack, even on soft targets, which were sponsored by the US. In fact, the World Court found the US guilty of committing crimes there.

Take Chile in '73. Their gov't started to turn a little left and we violently replaced it and installed a dictator. The same goes for Iran in '54 or Guatmala in '54

And if you study Chavez and Venezuela, you will find that he became more authoritarian only after the US sponsored coup attempt in 2002.

A similar story occurred in Cuba where you have a dictator but that very well could be in response to our embargo and acts of terror practiced against the people there.

Certainly the more idealistic one becomes in any ideology, the vulnerable that area becomes to abuse--that goes for capitalism or socialism. But one can make moderate moves toward either direction without being harmfully idealistic.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 7:34 PM not going to tell you writes:

nanna

How about reading/listening to something other than Fox "news" and Rush Limbaugh. Please tell me about how dangerous you think Obama is. I think you have been brainwashed by the neocon media.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 8:03 PM Sgt Relic writes:

Gunny

Competition is the regulator of capitalism. Force is necessary to regulate socialism. People just refuse to keep to their place.

Apparently the first effect of liberalism is the loss of the ability to be succinct. This is followed by the inability to be decisive.

Q. Why did the chicken walk down the middle of the road?

A. Because he was a relativist and felt that all parts of the road were equally valid.

Moral: He was squashed by traffic from both directions.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 8:04 PM BrianR writes:

Guns© et alia



I just posted a new essay of sputtering conservative outrage.

Come on DO-O-O-O-WN!

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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 8:31 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

NGTTY

The fact that Oblahblah is the most liberal idiot in the Senate, that he is friends with an UNREPENTANT terrorist like Ayers, that he is a tax and spender, and that he sat his a** in a racist church for 20 YEARS is scary.

I won't mention that he'd consult with the enemies of the USA unconditionally.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 8:42 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

NGTTY

Oblahblah has plagurized this clown's speeches AND is good friends with him. Please review Deval Patrick's performance and anyone with a working brain could see that Oblahblah is an even WORSE socialist tax and spender.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWMxNzgyZWMxNzkwNjhhND FlYjBhZjYwODU4YzU5Zjk=&w=MA==

But then to underachivers lie you, anything that brings "producers" down, and makes them as miserable as you are, is as golden as a shower.
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 9:40 PM Redhead writes:

cad, hey!

You're trying to conflict Capitalism and Christianity and it simply does not work, and for one very important reason which I alluded to in my post yesterday.

You are trying to enforce your vision of Christianity at the point of a gun. Because that is the only stick that the government has. If I don’t like your programs and refuse to put in CF light bulbs, then you will try to make me pay a fine. If I don’t pay the fine, then you will try to take my house, or my job. If I refuse to give these to you, then you will try to take me to jail. And if I refuse to go, then you have no choice but to point a gun at me. That’s not very Christian-like of you, caday!

You say that you’ll use carrots instead. But what if I don’t like carrots? What if the tax breaks or incentives you offer me are not enough to convince me that your CF light bulbs don’t exacerbate lupus, and I continue to use the incandescent lights? Then we’re back to square one, aren’t we, and we both know that will end up with you pointing a gun at me.
Not very Christian-like at all, caday!
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Wednesday, August, 27, 2008 11:32 PM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

TAX and SPENDER? My taxes haven't gone down appreciably under Bush, yet gov't spending is the highest it's ever been - and we have record federal AND trade deficits. You would prefer to have just a spender then. Brilliant.

As for the golden shower comment - I'll let you and gay racist steve work that out somewhere in the saddle of your big new compensatory bike.

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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 12:33 AM caday5 writes:

Redhead

Can you tell me how I am using a gun to force anything here?

All I am saying is that when you compare Christianity and the kind of capitalism that is presented here, there are problems. There are problems because the kind of capitalism presented here contradicts Christianity so that you have to, as Jesus put it, decide whether you will serve God or mamon.

So no one is forcing anything. Just realize that when you choose the form of capitalism presented here, you are contradicting some basic teachings that are a part of Christianity and you are free to do so.

All of us contradict the basic teachings of Christianity when we sin so the supporters of the kind of capitalism here have much company. The question then becomes how will we respond once we realize we are sinning? That is the choice that everyone here has and no one is forcing you or me to respond in a particular way.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 10:47 AM Buck writes:

C-5


You're a moron.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 11:00 AM Buck writes:

I Apologize


I called C-5 a moron.

I apologize. To all the morons out there, I am sorry I used you as a comparisom.

Morons have a 50-75 i.q. thus cannot help their thinking.

Someone with full faculties but fails to use them is a fool.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 12:37 PM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

I said "Liberation Theology". I did not put a "Black" prefix on the term. LT is a concept that seeks to unify Marxism and Christianity in unholy wedlock by redefining the latter and ignoring the anti-God message inherent in the former. This is nothing more than a duplicitous device meant to gain votes from the credulous and uninformed "casual Christian". The "Black" corollary adds a violent race-hate element to the mix... much as Jihadism does to Islam. The Bible warns of of such false prophets. "By their works ye shall know them."

I've seen the works of Obama, his chief supporters and his mentors throughout his life. Their message is clear. So is mine. Vote McCain.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 12:44 PM Steve writes:

Dear Nigitty

I think he meant, "Pi$$ off". Surely, you're used to this reaction by now... from just about everyone!
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 2:10 PM caday5 writes:

Steve

I understand but my point was that I am calling them like I see them rather than following a particular ideology. If people disagree that is fine. What is most important is the logic and facts we use to arrive at our beliefs.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 9:12 PM not going to tell you writes:

gay racist steve (and gunny)

just from you and the others here afraid to think for themselves.

Are you telling me to pi$$ off? All more reason for me to stay in this intellectual $hit hole putting turds like you in your place.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 9:32 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

NGTTY

"Are you telling me to pi$$ off? All more reason for me to stay in this intellectual $hit hole putting turds like you in your place."

Two things.

1. Unlike you liberals, we don't ban 1st Amendment speech.

2. You could not put me in my place if you fugging tucked me in at night and read me a story!
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 9:33 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

caday5

"What is most important is the logic and facts we use to arrive at our beliefs."

WTF? We're still waiting for you to SUPPLY those facts and the logic to back it up. All we've seen is regurgitation of idiots like Chomsky.

BTW, Chomsky still advocating eating his own crap?

EEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 11:33 PM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

I've put you in your place with almost every comment I've made - you just don't get it.
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Thursday, August, 28, 2008 11:34 PM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

I'll gladly let gay racist Steve do the "tucking" with you at night.
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Friday, August, 29, 2008 5:46 AM caday5 writes:

Gunny

What facts do you need confirmation for? That we helped the British in overthrowing the Parliamentary Gov't of Iran in '53 is well known. The same for Guatemala in '54. That the Gulf of Tonkin incident that Johnson used to invade S. Vietnam is also well known or you could look up for yourself to see how we broke the Geneva Accords by being involved in Vietnam in the first place. We did so at the requests of your favorite group the French who were trying to keep their small empire.

Or do you need documentation for our exploits in Greece in '67 or Chile in '73. You could look up our support of terrorism in Nicaragua in the 80's, our support of Turkey in their war against the Kurds in the 90s.

And that we illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 by the Nuremberg principles after using the UN to enforce sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, mostly during Clinton's Administration.

All of this is well-documented which is why they are talking points for people. The fact that they are talking points does not imply they are false.

So please tell me what do you want documentation for.

BTW, I do read more than Chomsky though he reads quite a bit himself. I read historians like Chalmers Johnson who is a Navy Vet and former CIA consultant(they used him because of his historical expertise on Asia), Howard Zinn who is an Air Force vet, and William Blum. I also read the documentation of people who were at these events like Hans Von Sponeck.

Please specify your specific needs for documentation.
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Friday, August, 29, 2008 8:22 AM not going to tell you writes:

caday

Do you have days-of-the-week Chomsky underwear? Get a life and vote for someone who'll prevent McCain from being the next president.
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Friday, August, 29, 2008 2:19 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

NGTTY

McCain is IN with PalIN!!

Maybe next time libstain.
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Friday, August, 29, 2008 4:05 PM Daniel writes:

Well Done!

Great piece of writing. Sums up alot ofthings for me!
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Saturday, August, 30, 2008 12:04 AM not going to tell you writes:

gunny

I do not agree and I am not concerned about the well-oiled beauty queen. I've met drive-through help better qualified to lead the US than her.

I'll give McCain kudos on exploiting the eye-candy factor.
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Saturday, August, 30, 2008 12:37 AM caday5 writes:

What is plain here

is that childish insults are accepted in place of legitimate criticisms.
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Monday, September, 01, 2008 10:06 PM not going to tell you writes:

caday

What's childish is you putting your own arrogance above the good of the country by voting for nader.

At first I thought you were just sophomoric, but you seem to lack wisdom. You live in the same bubble as the gunnies and beachmoms et al. How's the air in there?
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Tuesday, September, 02, 2008 11:38 AM Steve writes:

From Gay, Racist Steve

Dear GunnyG: CAN I tuck you in some nights and read you some Chompsky over hot milk and cookies?? Ohhh, pleasepleaseplease...!!
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Tuesday, September, 02, 2008 10:19 PM not going to tell you writes:

gay racist steve

Now, that wasn't so difficult was it? I'm sure gunny will reciprocate.
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Wednesday, September, 03, 2008 12:18 PM Steve writes:

Dear Nigitty

Yessss. You're sooo right! It feels so very much better to be out of that AWFUL closet, despite all those sweet magazines I've stashed away in there. "Frisco Firemen In Bondage" always does it for me. Were YOU one of them?? Please tell me it's so!!!

What's your favorite cookie, pal?

God, the things I have to say to keep Nigitty happy!!
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Thursday, September, 04, 2008 11:34 PM not going to tell you writes:

gay racist steve

you are such a homo - it's too bad most of the crowd has moved on to the newer posts, they should see your gayness as an example of republican hypocrisy.
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