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NBC's Engel: Surge Only Looks Good Compared To "Full-Blown Civil War"--Iraq Better Under Saddam's "Peaceful Time"

Greg Hengler
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Can you believe this guy? Richard Engel is NBC News's Chief Foreign Correspondent! His "rewriting of history" makes Michael Moore's appear soft.

More fruits of a life lived in the world of the liberal media elite where no one challenges you and everyone tries to one-up you with their hate for America.

HT to RightNetwork's Benjamin Rush.

Tags: Media and Culture , MSNBC

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 02, 2010 8:13 AM

Listen to moderate guy, on land issues.

Everyone knows land issues will never be settled, all we can do is live together in tolerance and peace. That said, I was speaking of UN resolutions concerning international treaties of aggression/law. Historically the Palestinians (and others) have consistently broken UN law, while Israel has bent over backwards to find peace.

The question is of character. Demonstration of restraint and peace or aggression and invasion. Saddam was an aggressor and invader, left in power he would have become a menace to the world. Israel is simply trying to co-exist in a area of the world that wants them completely exterminated.

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moderateGuy Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 4:53 PM

so every agressor from BEFORE WWI gets to keep their conquests.

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vladimir estragon Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 4:44 PM

"...how far back does this go?"

To the late 19th century and then after World War I, when people started figuring out that "The winner is whoever kills the most people" really wasn't working any more. Look up the 4th Geneva Convention.

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dreadnaught2 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 4:31 PM

One of the problems, an important fact-- Is our younger generation has never SUFFERED. They didn't experience a Great Depression. Real NEED! Today many of them DRESS worse than Okies did back then. Today guys shave less often, girls buy tattooes up & down their spines! Few have never known homelessness. (It happens today on account of addiction; not unemployment. --But that's soon coming too.)

When your children are going without FOOD, as it was in Europe during two world wars; if you're a real MAN, you turn to God for mercy. Suffering purifies, Plumber. Being fired at with rockets, for days! It cures your false pride.

The greatest suffering experienced...

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moderateGuy Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 4:27 PM

...how far back does this go? 20-years, 50-years, 100-years, 500-years, 2000-years? only to the time of birth of Israel?
Do we march all of the "Russians" back to Moscow? You know, out of Tver, Wielikoy Novgorod, Kazan and Ryazan they occupied and moved people in?
Do we demand Han Chinese move out of Shanghai?
How about all of the Hispanic-descendent Latin Americans?
Do Arabs need to go back to the borders prior to 630AD and remove all of their settlers from the lands they occupy - you know Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria?
Do Normans need to leave Britain and Franks - France?
Do liberals need to leave planet Earth?

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dreadnaught2 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 4:13 PM

Wrong, plumber. There are many countries, at least in our western world who have more and worthier culture than ours. You judge by the standard of living, I suppose. That isn't our "culture."

Our culture is making 11 year-old girls take the pill, because parents are complicit in the agreement she'll go sleeping around. Our culture, more obviously is depicted on MTV, which the same girl loves to watch; and the androgynous pop-stars who populate prime-time TV;

Our culture is marijuana smoke drifting up in an entire auditorium at the "concert" of screwed-up tramps screaming like panthers passing broken glass. Or the trailers for new movies, "Steamy," erotic delight,"...

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vladimir estragon Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:42 PM

Are you kidding?

Every international treaty ever written says that you can't take territory by force and then start moving your own people in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolut ions_concerning_Israel

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:36 PM

Sovereign countries have the right to defend itself FIRST, UN as useless as it is - second.

What specific UN resolution are you referring to in the context of Israel invasion? (Or are you comparing minor offenses, to major assaults? If so, do you believe that the punished should fit the crime.)

Iran has broken United Nations Security Council Resolution 1737 and have advanced with nuclear technology, does this mean you and Moshe support the invasion of Iran by Israel?

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albert henry Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:25 PM

Well said,

The problem with the kurds is they are predominately Christian. There fellowship can be traced back to the Apostle Peter.
Again, well said.

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:24 PM

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:24 PM

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,...

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:23 PM

"Anyone who backed that invasion should forfeit his or her right to speak about fiscal waste" -- PL

Tell your party to shut their pie holes then.
==================================

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it...

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vladimir estragon Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 3:21 PM

"Saddam was in clear violation of 1441. Without a force (USA) to back up UN resolutions, nothing the UN decrees will be taken seriously by anybody."

So you think the U.S. should invade Israel to force them to comply with UN resolutions? (as Moshe pointed out)

Funny to see right-wingers wrapping themselves in the UN flag.

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 2:59 PM

said: "Anyone who backed that invasion should forfeit his or her right to speak about fiscal waste,"

Anyone who was willing to allow the carnage of Saddam Hussar to continue should not be allowed to vote.

Do you people forget what Saddam was!? Iran, Kuwait, the Kurds, torcher chambers, mass graves, allowing the people to live in poverty near starvation, while he built palaces on oil-for-food dollars.

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Jo312 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 2:41 PM

love us, and thanked us.

From 2007 - 60 min. CBS:

(CBS) - Try to imagine a peaceful and stable Iraq where business is booming and Americans are beloved. Now open your eyes because 60 Minutes is going to take you to a part of Iraq which fits that description: it's called Kurdistan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2491526n

Or their web site:
http://www.theotheriraq.com/relationship.html

"Iran/Iraq War, the Kurds were again caught up in the struggle between nations. And again the world stood by as Saddam destroyed over four thousand Kurdish villages, unleashing poisonous gas assaults against not only the people, but the forests and the wildlife as part of his ‘Anfal’ campaign to obliterate the...

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ca7 Wrote: Sep 01, 2010 1:30 PM

"ca, "trade-offs for freedom" do they
include genocide and poison gassing of communities.

Yeah, I thought so."

No, genocide and poison gas is a trade off for "stability" under an authoritarian dictatorship. Trade-off for freedom, in the case of Iraq, would be a country torn apart on the verge of civil war with something like 100,000 innocent people dead. Do you disagree that there are trad-offs one must make with regard to gaining freedom from a dictatorship? Did I ever advocate for a return to Sadaam like government in Iraq? No!

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The Plumber Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 11:00 PM

Most are not just a little more inferior, but vastly inferior in myriad ways.

I made no value judgements on the lives within these cultures and countries. It's not that I don't care about them, it's just that their lives are none of my damned business until they make it such (by attacking us or sneaking across the borders, for example).

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moderateGuy Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 10:02 PM

would be in a mental institution, so I'm thinking you really, really do not wanna wish for one.

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The Plumber Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 9:03 PM

Except for the Progressive perversions of the Constitution, I'm right. Other cultures and nations are inferior.

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dreadnaught2 Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 8:27 PM

Get real.

We live in a great country. We have ample cause to be proud of our country.

Don't get smarmy. NO, other cultures are NOT inferior to us. Nor are other lives less important than ours. This is what was once called "Jingoism."

I say I truly love my country and would be willing to die for it. But one look around today will show you we have no culture. Americans have little reason to brag. Just love your country. Save the needless hyperbole.

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The Plumber Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 7:59 PM

"We should invade Israel for violating hundrededs of UN resolutions."

Actually, if you'd read carefully, you'd see that I don't care about the UN or what they decree. I believe in American Exceptionalism and that ALL other cultures are inferior to ours. I take Franklin's advice with regard to alliances.

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albert henry Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 7:54 PM

is there no end. Hindsight is always the quality view. Aided with everything, except believing, and moral courage.

But don't you for a minute think you can run for the cover of W did this. Don't you dare. there was a group of scared little legislatures, who had not the boys over Penn. not driven the plane into the ground, would have had their club house wrecked. Don't you dare, crab walk out on this. This was a partisan as apple pie. I believe Clinton testified, and the ever brilliant madame Albright, all of his advisor's, so don't you dare speculate as to the puny notions of bad thinking, on the backing of that invasion.

Where the blunder of history was, was Pearl harbor, and Court Martialing Billy Mitchell, for...

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The Plumber Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 7:53 PM

I know that there were assurances that 1441 wouldn't be used as a pretext for war, but when has "a G-d damned piece of paper" with a signed agreement ever stopped a determined Progressive with the power of the POTUS?

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TX Gal Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 7:47 PM

Yeah, I was going to say I agreed with your previous post, except the part about people getting shot. If only the Dems had stood up to the Bush administration and voted against it, we would sure be better off now. But at that time anyone that did vote against the invasion or spoke out against it was called un-American, traitor, and soft on terror.

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moshe22 Wrote: Aug 31, 2010 7:44 PM

Without a force (USA) to back up UN resolutions, nothing the UN decrees will be taken seriously by anybody.
_____________________

Well said.

We should invade Israel for violating hundrededs of UN resolutions.

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