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Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical.
"we know that the surgeon cannot give one the "Y" or "X" chromosome," Counterexamples : Bone marrow-derived cells from male donors can compose endometrial glands in female transplant recipients by Ikoma et al in Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2009 Dec;201(6):608.e1-8 & Transplanted human bone marrow cells generate new brain cells by Crain BJ, Tran SD, Mezey E. in J Neurol Sci. 2005 Jun 15;233(1-2):121-3 : These show that a bone-marrow transplant recipient's entire bodies gradually become genetically identical to that of the donor due to cell turnover. Even the brain. Even the reproductive glands. XX can become XY or vice-versa. So what? Chromosomes don't determine sex.
"Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical. " They don't believe in this science stuff, any more than they believe that men with 47,XXY chromosomes can exist. It's against their religion.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 8:16 PM
I gave the evidence. I said nothing about "consensus". I called no-one a bigot. Those statements are not true - though I don't think you're deliberately lying. You're just seeing what you expect to see, and ignoring reality as it doesn't conform to your beliefs. In the process, you've born false witness against me.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 1:01 PM
" Your statement that you are "straight" carries the same weight in defining you, as a homosexual admitting to their preference. " Probably less. I'm Intersex you see. Diagnosis in 1985 was that I was an Intersex male. I looked mostly male at birth. After puberty in 2005 that was changed to Intersex female. I looked mostly female after the change. 5ARD and 17BHSD can cause a natural sex change from FtoM. 3BHSD can cause a change in either direction. I'd always identified as female (since age 9 anyway). My appearance didn't always match that.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:53 PM
"Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'" - John Calvin, sermon no. 8 on 1st Corinthians, 677, cited in John Calvin: A Sixteenth Century Portrait by William J. Bouwsma (Oxford Univ. Press, 1988), A. 72 We've heard it all before you see. St John Chrystostom's irrefutable theological proof that either the Bible was erroneous, or the Earth is Flat. Luther's argument against Heliocentricity. St Augustine's proof that Australia had to be uninhabited. Etc Etc.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:50 PM
"Because science has proven itself to be beyond the influence of politics, society and economy? I mean, we've never seen a consensus of "scientists" support a cause for the sake of their own gain (global warming, darwinism to name a couple big ones)..." Global warming - there's evidence on both sides is there not? "Darwinism" - given that I use meta-genetic algorithms to optimise evolution to solve knotty problems in quantum physics, it's not a matter of belief or faith, but observation. I emphasised "independent researchers" in "different parts of the world" specifically to show that there's no credible political, social or economic bias here. Unless you're a Calvinist. "Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are]...
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:30 PM
A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism Bentz E, Hefler L, Kaufmann U, Huber J, Kolbus A, Tempfer C Fertility and Sterility , Volume 90 , Issue 1 , Pages 56 - 59 Androgen Receptor Repeat Length Polymorphism Associated with Male-to-Female Transsexualism by Hare at al in Biol.Psych. Vol65, Issue 1, Pp 93-96 Correlation is weak though - a 10% increase, no more. Much stronger is effect of hormones during foetal development. Then it's not 110% of normal, but 50000% Prenatal exposure to diethylstilbestrol(DES) in males and gender-related disorders:results from a 5-year study Scott Kerlin. Proc. International Behavioral Development Symposium...
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:22 PM
Many are discomforted by others having a different coloured skin. Sometimes it's not the object of the discomfort that's the problem. Sometimes it is though. You're right too about the mind (where the addressing needs to happen) being a tough thing to deal with. I try - however poorly - to deal with it by education. Putting facts before others, not arrogantly telling them what they should or should not think.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:14 PM
Now you're talking about actions, not attr-actions. I'm straight. I'm also celibate. This does not affect me being straight.
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A Homophobic Nightmare

ZoeB2 Wrote: Apr 30, 2013 12:10 PM
An example for all to live by - thanks.
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