In response to:

'Fiscal' Conservatism Needs 'Social' Conservatism

wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:15 PM
I'm a social conservative. Homosexual sex is a sin, abortion is legalized murder and neither are federal issues. DOMA is unconstitutional and oppressive. Most social coservatives are political liberals who want to use the force of govt to impose their views on others.
Anominus Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:23 PM
"DOMA is unconstitutional and oppressive. Most social coservatives are political liberals who want to use the force of govt to impose their views on others."

DOMA was actually a response to the fact that if homosexuals were able to redefine marriage in one state, they would seek to force other states, particularly those with laws against homosexual unions, to accept their false "marriage." There was nothing unconstitutional about it as it did not prevent the states from forming their own laws, it simply prevented the federal government from recognizing homosexual "marriage."
wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:39 PM
Then a Constitutional Amendment was necessary. If congress was concerned about protecting our constitutional rights, but like all good liberals, big govt republicans pull out the 14th amendment and insist that fed power is near unlimited.
Anominus Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:42 PM
If you don't mind, wmou, what in particular about DOMA was in violation of the 14th Amendment?
wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:56 PM
The 14th amendment did not negate the 9th and 10th amendments. If the feds told me I could not marry my wife, I would marry her anyway. If a state wants to recognize marriages, the feds cannot interfere. Legal terms are always defined in legislation, and each state is free to write their own laws. A few contracts agreed upon in one state transfers to others, others do not. Gun permits are a prime example. But the insistence that marriage is a fed issue will put it in the USSC which will dictate the definition of marriage, and most people of faith will not be happy
Anominus Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:00 PM
Once again, DOMA simply prevented the feds from recognizing homosexual unions - it did not prevent the states from passing laws redefining marriage however they pleased.
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:21 PM
Abortion is legalized murder and is definitly a federal issue. The Fourteenth Amendment makes it one. Every member of the human species is entitled to equal protection under the law.
Chries Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:23 PM
DOMA was a response to the way judges circumvented the legislative process outlined in the Constitution. DOMA should never have been voted on; it should never have had to be introduced...
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:36 PM
You have a good point, Chries. My own belief is that government should not be in the marriage business, but if people, ON THE STATE LEVEL, want it to be, I can accept that.
wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:37 PM
We can all be killed in the womb. Murder and manslaughter are not federal issues.
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:46 PM
Equal protection is. No state can institute slavery. If a state forbids killing some, it must forbid killing all. No state can permit the killing of left handed people with red hair and forbid killing others.
wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 4:50 PM
The courts have decided that the baby is not human. Most americans disagree when the baby becomes human, except biologists. They are certain the new being is human at conception. No chance that it will be a horse.
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:08 PM
The courts are wrong. They are also deliberately ignorant of reality. The biologists, agreeing with me, are right. As for most Americans, reality is not a popularity contest.
Do you agree with me about left handed people with red hair?
wmou Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:29 PM
I don't see the connection, unless that is the only babies allowed to be aborted were going to be left-handed and red-headed. The only way abortion will ever be illegal is for the USSC to decide the unborn baby is a human with rights. Not likely, so the best use of our energy is to fight abortion with Truth. The entire concept is hiddeous and evil. Most do not want to think about what abortion is.
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:47 PM
I thought the point was clear, but even I can be wrong. The point is that the State cannot arbitrarily select people who can be killed on factors beyond the victim's control.
Carl469 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 11:54 PM
The 14th Amendment doesn't answer the question of when life begins. There is no consensus on this.
For some years now, we have been told about a major division within American conservatism: fiscal conservatives vs. social conservatives.

This division is hurting conservatism and hurting America -- because the survival of American values depends on both fiscal and social conservatism. Furthermore, the division is logically and morally untenable. A conservative conserves all American values, not just economic ones.

By "social conservatism," I am referring to the second and third components of what I call the American Trinity -- liberty, "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum."

It is worth noting that a similar bifurcation does not exist on the left. One...

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