The creeping progressivism of the last century made abortion a secular issue. So, in that vein, Rick Warren's question comes to mind: "When do civil rights begin?" When do they? Beyond that point, it's clearly murder even for those with no religious/moral prohibitions. But you're correct, Star. Progressives have sufficiently devalued life, the individual and individual's rights to the point that the "death panels" in Obamacare are not going to be difficult to swallow by the majority even though they've been forced down our throats. All socialist/communist regimes have done likewise. For the State to have complete control, the individual must acknowledge that rights come from the State--even the right to life.