By giving up our "right to self defense to live in a civilized society?" Your words on a previous thread. Perhaps not a direct quote, but close enough. Utopia has been a liberal dream since humans first had cognitive thought. The problem is that dream denies the existence of human evil. There will ALWAYS be bad guys needing to be shot in this harsh realm. If you are going to argue, "That's what the police are for," let me know if you still think that after watching the police respond too late and simply tag and bag those you love.