hey bert those are things defind by humans so people before we had a SS# and calendar were not "human" to you? you see the point is where do you draw the line i draw it at conception i'd even grant you can draw the line when the ovum is implanted, allowing drugs to prevent that from happening but we've seen what happens when goverment get to decide so we had Jews, Gays, Gypsys, Native Americans, Blacks all called non-human by goverment is that were you want a civil society to be?