So explain to me Michael why murder is wrong objectively in a world where we are animals and there are no rules set by a higher power. If we are merely animals than we are creatures of instinct and there is no morally concrete right and wrong. An atheist who views themselves as moral is either lying to themselves or is simply not grasping the concept. Morality is a function of religion and without a deity murdering another human is no more morally repugnant than any other animal fighting over a scrap of food or territory. Argue THAT point which is the one no atheist will touch.