In response to:

David Mamet’s The Anarchist: The New Left’s Terrible Triumph

Troglodite Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 7:35 PM
The real legacy of the old "New Left" of the 60s and 70s is the hedonism, narcissism, indiscipline, antinomianism, and pursuit of immediate gratification that characterize our society today. The hippies took baths and took over--without changing their basic views on anything. Our country, our society, and our freedoms once rested primarily on the "bourgeois virtues" of the middle class and, secondarily, on the "noblesse oblige" of the upper crust. Today, the bourgeois virtues are expiring, as we see from the statistics on divorce, illegitimacy, and the pathologies associated with them. A cpuntry whose tone is set, and whose government is elected, by its "lumpenproletariat" will not long preserve either its prosperity or its freedom
Troglodite Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 7:39 PM
For the benefit of our Randians here, but also of anyone interested in looking further at the matter, I recommend that we recall that Aristotle argued that a democratic polity depends on the existence precisely of a strong middle class.
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 7:56 PM
Don't have to go that far back. James Madison opined that our governement was intended for a moral people; it could exist with no other.
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 8:05 PM
why do all liberals think they fit to be a Platoian philosopher king, while quoting Aristotle no less? Aristotle called for one to see the limits of own wisdom - Randians generally only want each "man" to be the master of his fate, the captain of his own soul.
Troglodite Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 8:39 PM
C and P2:

1. I think that I take nothing away from Madison and the Founders when I point out that they were students of history and of the great statesmen and thinkers of the past, including Aristotle.

2. Rand and the libertarians are, of course, NOT students and disciples of Aristotle--nor of Cicero, nor of the Medieval schoolmen, nor of The Federalist. Rand, though so wrong about so much, was quite right in referring to libertarians as right-wing hippies.
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 8:55 PM
never said i was a Randian - but i like them
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 9:06 PM
ayn rand is a writer (who is a bit knee jerk) who perhaps may have overreacted to growing up in the ultimate progressive scotty
Troglodite Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 9:15 PM
Although Rand herself was untiring in her professions of zeal and admiration for Aristotle, I found so little of Aristotle in Rand that I always suspected that she was simply enjoying an private joke at the expense of her followers. As she called herself a follower of Aristotle, she had to have been laughing at those sufficiently ignorant and gullible to swallow that claim.
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 9:38 PM
I was talking of your use of Aristotle, not Rand's. :) The one thing i really hate about rand is the fact that she claimed to think for them selves, but got upset when they did - she had that at least, in common with most liberals.
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 9:42 PM
sorry for the typing, but trying to cook and type is not working so well. :)
Troglodite Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 9:48 PM
Libertarianism has a certain rigor and logic which makes it attractive and allows its adherents to snipe at those who are less systematic. Unfortunately, it frequently lacks the common sense and adaptability to experience of an Aristotle, Cicero, Aquinas, Burke, or Federalist. That said, while I disagree with libertarians about many things, I agree with them on others--without ever feeling any impulse to join their ranks.
Peter 2 Wrote: Nov 20, 2012 10:20 PM

In New York Friday to appear on Sean Hannity’s program, I stayed an extra day to catch an early performance of David Mamet's new play The Anarchist, now in its second week of previews. Sitting next to Marcello, a Brazilian venture capitalist, we chatted about the election just past.

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