Social justice - is just code for Enslaving the Productivity to the Powers That Be. Moral Issues - is code for Living in the Magic Land Where We Can Pretend "Social Conservatives" Vote for Commies... So... don't worry, be happy Roy... its just "codes" As for a "factor" in your life - you inherited a culture that changed the planet ... I am just old enough to see it sail; and young enough to see kids confused as to what it was all about...

Rational, True... While it is true: We must let people choose right and wrong for themselves most of the time and let them suffer the consequences - from soda pop sizes to light bulbs... A Nation Must Enforce its Borders; Stop the Entry of Those Who Wish to Destroy Its Underlying Culture, etc; Defend Itself from Attack Without and Within; Otherwise, it will simply cease to exist.

Loadstar, Mick Dorris is a political animal with no life experience to reality check his "computations" ... which is why he is right about as often as a broken clock... and that's also why we lose elections - listening to guys like him to plan campaigns. That said, he is on "our" team sort of... and he's strong on polls and current and past political events. If his knowledge of polls and the political system were Not "Spot On" accurate - despite faulty understanding... the Left-wing Personal Destruction Machine would light up like an Extraterrestrial Mass Extermination Blow Torch.

... and for both Con's and Lib's this is not as much BS as it may seem... the data, in the hands of an honest scientist (hey... come on they existed - they trained me... tho they may be as rare as a dodo now...) but the data can be very useful and can give one an idea of how "polluted" or "clean" a water may be... ... unfortunately... I frankly doubt anyone in a Regional office these days understands the half of it... plus they're True Believers - so if the data doesn't fit their Faith, they think the data is Wrong... Yes - I am saying EPA may think the water quality data, if it fails to confirm their Faith, is a member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy... Didn't know you were fabricating water quality data did you? ... It's ok..

hummm, "anti-degradation" is kind of like the "Precautionary" principle. more of Gravy than of Ghosts says Scrooge... The idea is that the ambient environment must be protected from further degradation; sounds good right? Well a complex (hence suitably malleable means to fabricate) formula determines whether a given contribution adds to the degradation. Laymen may think this is simple... but I assure you it isn't b/c none of these numbers I or Marita or EPA are throwing around are "Fixed" the numbers are Fictions - created by aggregated data from collections of samples from monitoring points up and down the water courses in question and smoothed by data massaging techniques to come up with a representative quantity ...

btw, for the lurkers... KEEC is a state agency authorized to implement the CWA - EPA funds them and if they fail to follow EPA guidelines, EPA can take over. Compare to Illegal Migration... Usually in All cases the Fed's require State implementation - on roads, guns, insurance, employment, edumacation, health codes, and environment (and Human Right's cmmn's... the list is endless) Immigration is the only exception I know of. (Excluding cases of enforcement Against State officials) In the case Marita is citing - they are using (prob.) Anti-degradation Standards to justify limitations more stringent than ambient conditions. To bypass the Public Process Rules they have Emergency rules I never saw triggered - or they may just ignore them

Marita, Nice to know someone has heard of 402... time to quibble with Conservatives... why is it when Conservatives want a champion to argue with EPA about complex regumalations... they prefer an Ivy-league, Liberal Dummycrat attorney; or a Legacy with a background in Accounting? Just askin.... could be why the coal plants are going down... ---- Also, ---- "may be victims of retribution" ... honey ... come on, repeat after me: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck ...

indy, ouch. yes - the adopted can get really turned over - usually though they can check the box without any question of why the parents are white...

Ramon, Yes - Those qualities are qualifications for their team... when they don't ask for a Drive-by...

.... same, yep... confession is good for the soul