In response to:

Treatment of the Fort Hood Victims

Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:15 AM
13 Adults killed and 32 wounded......then there's the little matter of Federal and Texas law that says that the unborn child of one of the returning vets was also killed and is considered a human being under those same laws.......how inconvenient for for the Obama administration....no wonder they don't want to see this case ever come up....kinda like the USS Cole terrorists.......
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:29 AM
Neither federal nor Texas law apply in this case. Military law applies. As a matter of law, the accused must first be convicted of killing the expecting parent; then the accused may be charged with killing the unborn child.
Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:36 AM
If charged with killing the parent then the charge of killing the unborn goes hand-in-hand......via the umbilical cord.....the idea that one would have to be convicted of killing the mother first before any charges could be brought to bear concerning the unborn is ludicrous. UCMJ IS a Federal Law.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:39 AM
No. The UCMJ is quite clear. Prior to charging for the death of the child, the accused must first be convicted of killing the parent. Whether you think it is ludicrous or not is irrelevant to the fact that the UCMJ is clear. UCMJ IS NOT FEDERAL LAW AS ONLY MILITARY PERSONNEL ARE SUBJECT TO THE UCMJ THEREFORE THE UCMJ IS MILITARY LAW NOT FEDERAL LAW.
Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:45 AM
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is a federal law, enacted by Congress. Its provisions are contained in United States Code, Title 10, Chapter 47. Article 36 of the UCMJ allows the President to prescribe rules and procedures to implement the provisions of the UCMJ. The President does this via the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) which is an executive order that contains detailed instructions for implementing military law for the United States Armed Forces.

You're wrong....care to try again?

Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 11:50 AM
The changes to the UCMJ reflect changes to U.S. law made by Congress in 2004, when it passed and Bush signed the "Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004."

Anyone subject to the UCMJ who "causes the death of, or bodily injury ... to a child who is in utero ... is guilty of a separate offense" as if the injury or death occurred to the "unborn child's mother," the manual states.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:03 PM
Correct. It is not "federal law" as in the United States Code and only applies to military personnel, as I wrote. So, I'm not wrong.
Have a nice day.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:06 PM
The UCMJ is not "federal law" as it does not apply to civilians. The authorization for the UCMJ is as you have stated and the president signs the current MCM. However, the UCMJ is nowhere in the federal laws that govern the rest of the population. So you'e wrong. Have a nice day.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:08 PM
Yes. And prior to charging this, the government must show that the accused caused the death of the parent.
Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:11 PM
Is this Bill Clinton? Com'on...be honest, Bill.....'cus only a sociopathic, degenerate liar like you could parse words like that just so you don't have to admit that you're wrong.....Have a crappy day.
Tom in Delaware Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:14 PM
Anyone subject to the UCMJ who "causes the death of, or bodily injury ... to a child who is in utero ... is guilty of a separate offense" as if the injury or death occurred to the "unborn child's mother," the manual states.

IAW....two murders were committed.....so there are not 13 dead but 14 dead.....and hence the silence from the abortion-loving Left....because the mere charges of the death of the unborn is a slap in the face to their rationale.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:18 PM
Uh, no..words have meanings and laws have jurisdictions.

You tried to slice the hair the way you wanted and I set you straight.

So eff off and die.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:20 PM
Well, none of that is relevant to DA Pamphlet 27-9, 1 Jan 2010, ARTICLE 119a, page 446, which states: The specification in this case alleges that the bodily injury to the unborn child occurred as a result of the accused committing the offense of (state the offense alleged). You may find the accused guilty of injuring the unborn child only if you find that the acts of the accused while engaging in that offense (or any lesser included offense as I have described for you) were the proximate cause of the injury to the unborn child.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 12:21 PM
which means the accused must first be proved the parent's killer.

So you're wrong, again.

eff off and have a shiitey day yourself.
3129 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 6:16 PM
What does the UCMJ say are the elements of the offense. Military crimes can be very different from civilian crimes. Viva la revolucion. Write your Congressman to impeach Obama.
Bigdogoffthechain11 Wrote: Feb 14, 2013 7:49 PM
(1) That (state the time and place alleged), the accused was engaged in the [(murder) (voluntary manslaughter) (involuntary manslaughter) (rape) (robbery) (maiming) (assault), of (state the name of the alleged pregnant woman)] [arson of (a dwelling inhabited by) (a structure or property (known to be occupied by) (belong to) (state the name of the alleged pregnant woman)];
(2) That (state the name of the alleged pregnant woman) was then a pregnant woman; and
(3) That the accused thereby caused bodily injury to the unborn child of (state the name of the alleged pregnant woman).

In 2010, Kimberly Munley sat next to Michelle Obama as President Barack Obama delivered his State of the Union address. Munley was invited as a hero of the 2009 Fort Hood shootings. As a civilian police officer, Munley fired back after Maj. Nidal Hasan allegedly opened fire in an attack that killed 13 adults and wounded 32. Munley was shot three times. Her partner, Mark Todd, fired the shots that brought down Hasan and ended the carnage.

Three years later, Munley told ABC News reporter Brian Ross, she feels "betrayed," as Obama broke his promise to care for the...