In response to:

Texas Secession to be Reviewed by White House

The_Nerd_Warrior Wrote: Nov 13, 2012 2:07 PM
The tariffs were bad, sure. But a legitimate reason to secede they were not. They seceded due to the fact that their economy, which depended on slave labor, was under attack. THEY were violating natural rights, and had no place trying to claim doing so as a freedom they were entitled to. You can't say "My rights are being violated; I'm going to secede," if you yourself are refusing to acknowledge the natural rights of your enslaved countrymen. It WAS rebellion - but so was our Revolution. The difference was that the colonies endured real abuse after endless attempts at peaceful resolution. The Confederacy didn't. So you're right, the Civil War did not establish that secession is not an option. But neither was the Confederacy legitimate.
Anominus Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 6:58 PM
"Secession is always a legal right of the states, sure - but rebellion without sufficient cause is always doomed to failure."

Sufficient cause? Like an overbearing federal government which interferes with personal property rights?

"And I'm sorry, but the moment you started arguing for the legitimacy of slavery of that time, you lost all credibility."

I never argued for the legitimacy of slavery, I only said that it was lawful at the time. I think you are reading a bit too much into it, or not reading it at all.
The_Nerd_Warrior Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 3:39 AM
Really?

What, then, were the Confederacy's grievances against the Union, that were SO GREAT that they felt the need to secede?

Did the exhaust all other options before resorting to secession?

Where's THEIR Declaration of Independence, listing all of the horrible atrocities committed against them, that gave them reason to secede?

The Confederate's reasons for leaving were pithy and poor at best, and unconscionable at worst. It doomed their independence from the start.
The_Nerd_Warrior Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 3:37 AM
Wow - THAT's persuasive.

Secession is always a legal right of the states, sure - but rebellion without sufficient cause is always doomed to failure.

The right to own another human being as "product" was the focal point of their secession, and it ultimately doomed their efforts.

And I'm sorry, but the moment you started arguing for the legitimacy of slavery of that time, you lost all credibility.
Anominus Wrote: Nov 13, 2012 3:46 PM
The Confederacy was legitimate, because, at that time, slavery was lawful. The slaves were not considered to be "human," let alone "countrymen" - they were "product" purchased and imported from Africa. Secession is a legal right of the states, regardless of the reason, but most especially when the union between the states is no longer beneficial to the citizens of a state.
Birdman III Wrote: Nov 13, 2012 2:52 PM
King George III would have stated exactly as you if his side had won the Revolutionary War that our Declaration of Independence and are fight for liberty were not legitimate.

The idea of Texas seceding from the Union is a long time joke, but a secession petition on WhiteHouse.gov has received enough signatures to be seriously reviewed by the White House.
 

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This isn't quite the equivalent of the Declaration of Independence, but in the digital age, you could say it's similar.

Related Tags: Texas secession