In response to:

5 Reasons God Allows Tragedies Like the Sandy Hook Massacre To Occur

Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 6:26 PM
Hawkins is no more successful than other apologists throughout the centuries who have tried to solve the problem of evil. "Free will" is no answer to children who suffer and die in floods, tornadoes, disease, etc. And why would God prefer belief based on faith rather than reason? Where's the sacrifice in staging a fake death for your immortal son?
rita182 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:27 PM
Christ was not "immortal" when He first came to earth; his mortal mother's contribution to his physical body ensured that. He did die, spent time in the spirit world, and resurrected with a perfected, immortal body. The power to deny death's permanence he received from His Father. The shooter's free will was the cause of the suffering of his victims. But the tragedy was in his sin, not in their deaths. He will have to pay for his sins, and his victims have been ushered into the presence of the Father, there to live in glory with Him until later, when they will have the opportunity to be reunited with their families.
Troglodite Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 7:35 PM
If there is no God, if there is no afterlife, if humans are merely bubbles of gas in the ooze of the universe, if there is no moral order, if there are no moral standards except those that we make up on the fly to suit ourselves, why are childrens's suffering and death issues for you?
Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:32 PM
"Humans are merely bubbles of gas"? A gold medal for that non sequitur. How about a morality based on reason and an appropriate assessment of reality and human nature? Does that really sound unreasonable? Human suffering and death is a moral issue if human life and happiness are the standard.
Troglodite Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:41 PM
TX:

"You are guilty of the most contemptible sentimentality. Your reason says that you and everybody else are no more and no less than a blast of flatulence in the substance of the universe. Your death matters not at all, as neither does your happiness--nor mine, nor anyone else. Be a man, TX, and face the fact that you and everyone else and everything that we think and want are just transitory turds in the cesspool of an ultimately meaningless reality."
Mark in CA Wrote: Jan 02, 2013 1:50 AM
Trog, I know you are serious and I agree but: LOL! at "transitory turds in the cesspool of an ultimately meaningless reality."
Rondoman Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 6:35 PM
As one who has been a Christian for 53 years, I can say that it is faith that has expanded my ability to reason. True science is in perfect harmony with faith. Only true science can explain the universe without injecting false philosophies such as Big Bang which has no scientific precedent. It would be foolish to argue with you because anyone who would accuse God of staging a fake death for his son (And no, he chose not to be immortal) cannot reason at all and is willfully blind.
Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 7:16 PM
You can say it but that doesn't make it true. Faith is belief in the absence of (or contrary to) evidence. If you have evidence you don't need faith - you have reason. More bad news - if your god didn't stage and control the crucifixion, he's not omnipotent. Interesting admission that your god isn't immortal. It seems your faith is as shaky as your reason.
ericynot Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 7:17 PM
Rondo,

The difference between the Big Bang Theory and the Bible absolutists is that those positing Big Bang are open to rejection or refinement.

And why does any scientific theory require precedent? Was there precedent for E-MC squared?
Troglodite Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 7:39 PM
TX:

You are certainly smart enough and sufficiently well-read to know that Christians believe that God is immortal, but that Jesus Christ, being man as well as God, was able to die. While you are free to reject that belief, your response to Rondoman is intellectually dishonest and morally smarmy.
rmccarthy Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 7:55 PM
Too bad that science is based on beliefs or assumptions and is wrong half of the time...yes, I know the story about that being a good thing - rationalization of sorts. On the other hand, even if not true at all, belief in God can be beneficial since we honestly can not know anything for sure. Again, I say, you don't have to believe in talking trains to get the message of the little train that said I think I can...it might be to beat up the little guy before he embarrasses you.
Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:09 PM
Oh I see - the man part died so he had to settle for just being an omnipotent god. What a sacrifice!
Troglodite Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:28 PM
Let's think here a bit, TX: would you not consider beating, flogging, crucifixion, and death rather steep and unpleasant even if you were guaranteed immortality and happiness after it all? Of course, you would. So did Jesus Christ, because He was true God and true man.

You are perfectly at liberty to deny Christianity, if you wish. Do not, however, misrepresent it or pretend that it is internally inconsistent in ways in which it is not.
rita182 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:34 PM
Faith is not contrary to evidence; it is evidence itself of things we can't see. A scientist develops a theory based on what he's seen, that proposes something he can't see. Faith in what he has not seen, based on what he has seen, is what impels him to experiment and find the truth behind his faith. Faith works the same in religion as it does science. One can experiment upon what faith has seen, but the person has not.
rita182 Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:38 PM
Actually, there was precedent. Einstein developed the General Theory of Relativity, which moved him to propose the Special Theory of Relativity (E=MC2). One led to the other. He would not have come up with the second without working out the first. Faith works the same way; there is an orderly manner of acquiring the knowledge that comes from testing and proving faith in something.
Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:44 PM
Let's think more than a bit. By definition the earthly tortures you describe are NOTHING compared to eternal omnipotence. I'll assume you understand the concept of infinity. So the pretending here is all yours.
Troglodite Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 8:56 PM
TX:

Earthly tortures are indeed nothing in comparison to eternal omnipotence or, in the case of those who are not God, mere eternal beatitude. The problem with this assertion is that, even for one who accepts it as true, it is hard to live by it when flesh and blood are put to the test.
Tacitus X Wrote: Jan 01, 2013 9:26 PM
You're confusing belief with sight. Einstein's theories are based on mathematics, not faith. The world awaits details of your plan to test and prove the supernatural.

As a Christian, it can be difficult to reconcile all the evil that happens in the world with an all knowing, all powerful loving God who could stop it if He wants, but chooses not to do so. If our hearts break for the innocent children who were senselessly murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary, how can a God who loves us not feel the same way? If any of us had known what Adam Lanza was going to do, we would have done anything in our power to stop him, so why didn't God? All too often we tend to quote...