In response to:

Be a Patriot: Expand Your Carbon Footprint Today

Steve of CA Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 5:31 PM
"In energy models, the Left believes there must be a fixed and finite pile of electricity/gas/coal/whatever. If you use LESS energy, you can avoid reducing that big mound of electricity quite so quickly, therefore conservation of whatever type and cost is always good." I was under the impression that some sources of energy are finite, like oil and coal, and I am not sure why it is considered leftist to want to preserve these resources to some degree rather than rapidly depleting them. Conservationism can be considered a form of conservativism, and there was a time when many Republicans were conservationists. It is like being conservative with your personal financial resources.
Steve of CA Wrote: Aug 07, 2012 3:33 AM
I am not a scientist, algae, but perhaps you could explain how our use of oil resources is not outsripping natural production. How long will it be, at the present rate of world oil consumption, before we run out of oil or suffer severe shortages, despite drilling everywhere, or will that day never happen?
S211 Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 10:15 PM
Conservation is one thing. Artificial deprivation and rationing are another. Speaking of which why did Obumble say no to the pipeline again?
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 10:09 PM
If you DO need to transition to more renewable sources, then you still have to evaluate the relative costs.

Without that consideration you can pump endless resources into "ethanol" or "solar" or other proven failures and have nothing to show for it as is currently being done.

If you really want to solve a renewable energy problem in the fastest way possible you set domestic fossil fuel development on wide open throttle. Then you put 20-50 billion dollars a year in a crash fusion development program and wait 10 years. That's about the most realistic chance you have.

Unfortunately, that doesn't fit anyone's REAL agenda which also, unfortunately, has very little to do with energy production.
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 9:54 PM
"Seems to me" isn't much of a scientific doctrine. A supposition with no basis in knowledge makes for poor conjecture unworthy of consideration.
Steve of CA Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 9:24 PM
Seems to me that the use of oil resources far outsrips its natural production. If that is the case then a conservative use of this resource and gradual transitioning to more renewable sources would make sense
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 8:03 PM
In order to compute what the "overall supply being deleted" value is, you would have to know what:

1. the basic terminology means. "overall", for example, is a subjective.
2. the rate of consumption is - possibly knowable within reasonable error margin.
3. the rate of replacement - Unknown. No measurement methodology currently exists.
4. the effectiveness of extraction - Indeterminate. No known limit to physical extraction currently exists. Geopolitical strategy dictates extraction.
5. the curtailment of use by replacement - more efficient (or practical) energy sources, cold fusion, gravity, anti-matter.
6. happens to the level of civilization. Either it develops or descends into a dark age. Geopolitical strategy dictates.
Steve of CA Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 7:39 PM
At what rate can we use oil without its overall supply being deleted?
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 6:44 PM
Joseph64 - You are right. No one really knows for sure how oil is created but it certainly isn't created from decay.

I know of no one who has witnessed the actual process. Very generally speaking it seems to require carbon, geological pressure and planetary core level heat.

And ... you are right again, that there is another fly in the "perfect theory" of biologically sourced oil. Science has also shown that abiogenic sources exist too. Why it is enough to confound the brain of any Algore D grade science student. Particularly those who seem to make up our libtroll constituency. :)
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 5:49 PM
I am pointing out the fallacy of the poster's argument q-libtroll.

In case you didn't realize it, I was using fact to disprove a fictitious argument. Which I did and you circuitously acknowledged this to be true.

In further fact, your argument of "wait a few million years" is again false and provably so. Oil or coal does not spring into existence every so many million years like a souffle from the oven. It is a continuous geo/biological process.

Care to try for idiotic response #2?
Joseph64 Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 5:48 PM
Oil is not finite. Oil is continually being produced by interactions between the crust and mantle. It is not produced from decaying organic matter. How do you account for the many oil wells that have mysteriously started producing again after they were thought to have been at the end of their life? How do you also explain the fact that the "new" oil was of a younger geological age than the "old" oil and the surrounding rock strata? Oil is never going to run out because it is not finite.
M. Hillinger (aka Quiet Reason) Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 5:44 PM
"Coal and oil are only finite when the resources that make them expire."

So you are suggesting that we have a wealth of energy, just give it a few million years.
algae Wrote: Aug 06, 2012 5:38 PM
Coal and oil are only finite when the resources that make them expire. Oops... that would be "life on earth".

 

I'm proposing a bold conservation program to involve every state, county, and city and every average American in our energy battle. This effort will permit you to build conservation into your homes and your lives at a cost you can afford. I ask Congress to give me authority for mandatory conservation and for standby gasoline rationing. To further conserve energy, I'm proposing tonight an extra ten billion dollars over the next decade to strengthen our public transportation systems. And I'm asking you for your good and for your nation's security to take no unnecessary trips, to use carpools or public...

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