In response to:

The Fallacy of Redistribution

Steven H of WA Wrote: Sep 22, 2012 3:26 PM
The unions were probably the single biggest impediment to the advancement of African-Americans prior to the 1960s. It was the unions that banned black workers or limited how high they could rise. Ever heard of the Scalers Union, it was the black union at certain shipyards for the lowest level jobs. Most immigrants who arrived poor worked their way up through the union trades, with some going on to start their own companies. The unions effectively blocked that path for blacks.
FletchforFreedom Wrote: Sep 24, 2012 1:04 AM
Actually, peaceman, your position is entirely contrary to actual history. There IS no context in which socialism has EVER worked (even picemeal or based on "compassion") and unions have, in every case, and in every way, been NOTHING but an unmitigated disaster for the economy and for workers as a whole. The one thing unions HAVE done is increase the relative wages of union workers ... at the expense of other workers in the economy ... and whether or not that ever offset for anyone the $50 TRILLION unions have cost the US economy falls between none and "Be serious!"

And one of the reasons unions took hold in the north was to exclude blacks moving up from the south.
Steve539 Wrote: Sep 23, 2012 5:04 PM
peaceman, you could not possibly be further from the truth. Socialism is the active part of a socialist country. Taking care of those in "real" need is not socialism. It is what civilized countries do!
Anonymous6062 Wrote: Sep 22, 2012 11:05 PM
Minimum wage laws were implemented for two reasons... 1) to artificially raise pay, assuming it would create more disposable income 2)to prevent the movement of capital to Southern locales where blacks were willing to work for less than whites, aka prevent blacks from taking northern whites jobs.
The unions used their influence to keep blacks out of the workplace.
peaceman Wrote: Sep 22, 2012 5:30 PM
Steven and Fletch...you two couldn't be more wrong re King and the role of unions. While there have been challenges with unions, they're a reflection most often of what's out of sync in the management of the workplace. It was the 'prejudice' of the times that slowed progress for black laborers but there were inroads gained after the 60's that provided a more balanced work environment (http://depts.washington.edu/dock/ship_scalers.shtml). So, no, the path for black workers was slowed but in time prevailed.

King as most others understand that socialism is not to be confused with a socialist country. Rather socialism is understood in the context that we provide care for those in need, not a system to control what we earn and how we live...
The recently discovered tape on which Barack Obama said back in 1998 that he believes in redistribution is not really news. He said the same thing to Joe the Plumber four years ago. But the surfacing of this tape may serve a useful purpose if it gets people to thinking about what the consequences of redistribution are.

Those who talk glibly about redistribution often act as if people are just inert objects that can be placed here and there, like pieces on a chess board, to carry out some grand design. But if human beings have their own responses to government policies,...