In response to:

Equivocating or Evolving, President Obama is Wrong Either Way

RockinRickOwen Wrote: May 12, 2012 1:46 PM
David, I sincerely doubt the existence of same-sex marriages in medieval Europe. I'm pretty sure the RCC would've clamped down on that one. None of the examples you cited contradicted the logical correlation of a male husband and a female wife, or my statement that no culture has ever accepted same-sex marriages. Many cultures have accepted same-sex sexual partnerships, but not marriages. Polygamy maintains that correlation: if a man is a husband, he has a wife. That he has more than one wife is incidental to the correlation. If the culture (for some reason) allows people to marry dead women, and his wife is dead, she's still a she, at least in some sense.
David3036 Wrote: May 12, 2012 1:59 PM
For centuries, the Azande of the southern Sudan bonded with their "boy-wives." And Marjorie Topley wrote about lesbian marriages in Guangdong, China, that existed well into the early 20th century.
naysayer Wrote: May 12, 2012 2:33 PM
I see you've applied yourself to much study in the way of homosexual history. However David that still does not change the fact that even in today's more progressive and gay accepting society morally sane folks do not agree with ssm. As there's really nothing new under the sun in terms of human nature, people will always have desires that need to be kept in moral check. Homosexuality is one of them...still. Whatever the law defines as acceptable is also subject to change. Resistance topples legality especially where people are incensed enough.
David3036 Wrote: May 12, 2012 3:14 PM
No, there is not agreement, but there is finally a majority in favor of marriage equality. And it's a generational issue, so as the population ages their will be more support. Young people don't see what the problem is with accepting gays.

The point of the history lesson is that it's just not true to say that marriage has been unchanged for thousands of years.
David3036 Wrote: May 12, 2012 1:56 PM
Another gay union that was celebrated in ancient art and literature involved two Roman soldiers who became Christian martyrs and were subsequently canonized -- St. Serge and St. Bacchus. They were described as lovers in Greek writings, and there is strong evidence that their relationship was well-known and was considered a marriage.

Historian Allan Tulchin researched a same-sex union called an "affrèrement” in medieval France -- a legal contract that created a union between two men. Homosexual “marriages” also took place in Ireland in the late 12th to early 13th centuries.
katepatate Wrote: May 12, 2012 2:49 PM
Let' look up all the sodomites in history to make the sodomites feel good about themselves. Then read Leviticus in the Bible and see what God does to societies that embrace sodomy. God will not be mocked. Our country will either be a great one who honors God or we will fall as a nation as so many have done before when sodomy was rampant. Love the sinner, but hate the sin. Homosexuality is a sin unto death. I didn't say it. God does.
David3036 Wrote: May 12, 2012 3:41 PM
If Leviticus is your standard of behavior, you "mock" God when you work on the Sabbath, eat shellfish, eat pork or wear cotton and polyester at the same time.
Wayne from the Hoosier state Wrote: May 12, 2012 4:58 PM
David, it is more than Leviticus. Your comeback is weaker than a starved chicken's broth. It is through the Bible. The perversion is abomination yesterday, today, and forever with God.
David3036 Wrote: May 12, 2012 1:54 PM
In his book "Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe," John Boswell offers evidence that the early Christian church had liturgies to unite same-sex couples. He found such evidence in archives in the Vatican, St. Petersburg, Paris, Istanbul and the Holy Land. The ceremonies he describes had all the earmarks of a wedding: a gathering in a church, a blessing by a priest at an alter and a banquet to celebrate afterward.

He found drawings depicting a union of Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his male companion. This founder of the Macedonian dynasty was actually married to two men, and both weddings took place in churches with priests presiding. His second marriage came about because a woman offered him a dowry if he would marry her son.

We know the story well: Barack Obama was for same-sex “marriage” (1996) before he was against it (2004) before he was for it (2012), although in 2008, he was apparently for it and against it (although mainly against it). Based, however, on his strong support for gay activism during his “against” years, it seems clear that he was equivocating in his public opposition to same-sex “marriage.”

But let’s say his views really were evolving, as he claims. Either way, whether equivocating or evolving, he has proven himself to be untrustworthy in this very important matter.

Let’s first consider what appears...