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In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 8:39 AM
2 issues stand out on your position. 1. In our system there is employers and employees. everyone can't be an employer. 2. if unemployment was back to norms of 5%, there would still be employees who take more then give back, and I would offer this is a classic argument for the employer to have to pay more so that the poor can at least break even. admittedly tax code also plays a role in that.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 7:38 AM
I was merely pointing out 2 examples of barriers placed that have an unjust outcome and the people effected are the poor where as the rich do not have these same barriers. The principal of some is that not having wealth is merely a product of a persons choices can not stand up to the challenge that barriers and events don't always occur in which the choice was offered. The poor are very often dictated by their circumstances and not just circumstances where there was a choice let alone a wrong and right conclusion. Small amounts of wealth separates a person from having those circumstances dictated to them or even having unfair barriers keeping them from succeeding, let alone simply no longer having those barriers effect them at all.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 7:27 AM
I wished that were true. In the midwest, its still urine testing as a norm due to the hair testing costs.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 7:26 AM
I have never failed one. But i did read the Consumer Products testing of these products. its an eye opener. I have applied for plenty of jobs and so understand your never told why you were not selected. I often ponder how many times a false positive was the reasoning. We should outlaw these test as proving anything and tell business that if they wish to do drug testing they have a responsibility to make the tests be accurate. They should also have to tell the applicant if there was a positive discovered so the applicant can take some recourse in proving their innocence. I simply used the credit and drug tests as examples of systematic barriers that need addressed.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 7:17 AM
So in your opinion the poor should starve, the weak should die, the wronged should get on with life and the elderly should just shrivel up and die already?
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 7:04 AM
tell that to the many millions of black people in the 40s, women in the 60's disabled in the 70's and so on. Your vision does not take into effect barriers falsely put in place or actions that take unintended consequences that effect the ability of someone to move up as well as the removal of risks for those already up to keep them from falling down. There is no system in the world nor in history that was truly void of restrictions and limitations nor has there been a system that spread these restrictions and limitations evenly through out the class structure.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 6:57 AM
BS. Every society that has classes has a social contract. Enough security and comfort for the poor to keep them from rising up and revolting against the the system. Name me a single example of a Free Society that did not have a social contract.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 6:40 AM
i use the word often, and I don't want your stuff. I want the limits and barriers removed, I want the falsities that success places on the those struggling, I want common sense over SOP. I want the work and effort of labour to have a value that recognizes the success they generated with that for the owner gets rewarded in some proportion to the wealth it generates for the owner. Having said that, I also want workers to take cuts when the lack of success occurs.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 6:23 AM
And so many wealthy people forget that they are secure and their wealth is secure by the grace of many poor people defending them. Police, Fire and Rescue and military. Not sure what the pay is today, but in the early 90's an NCO (E-4) made 690 per month. They would get 80 for being in a combat zone, 60 for being deployed overseas and if they were stationed over seas (not deployed) they would receive some COLA for the economy of that location. Minor COLA was also available for state side duty stations in high Cost of living areas and only if the soldier lived off base and there was no housing available for them.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 5:39 AM
Again he did nothing to deserve his credit score to be punished, received no benefit for his troubles, all with in the rules. And yet everywhere in his life is a constant barrier that should not be there that holds him back. Now he is homeless and no hope of getting a new job for at least 3 months.
In response to:

Making Life Fair

Robert42Vet Wrote: May 17, 2012 5:36 AM
New example of how the system the poor live in is not the same system the rich live in, and how this system holds the poor from achieving movement in their income situation. Same poor man needs a new job that pays more...he is hard worker so he feels confident in finding something. He goes to an Employer and applies to a job he is qualified for. They run a credit check and choose someone else after seeing his low credit score.
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