In response to:

The Scandal of the Jewish Pope

Reginald10 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 3:40 PM
"(This is not the place to debate whether Peter was the first pope; for the record, I reject that he was.)" Eh? OK, maybe not the time & place, but that does not sound right; that the successors to Peter are Popes, but Peter himself wasn't?
Andy544 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 4:32 PM
Peter was one of the twelve Apostles of Jesus; Peter definitely was not the first Pope. The unbliblical institution of the Roman catholic Papacy, with an individual in Rome calling himself 'the Pope' and assuming ecclesiastical powers over Christians dates from about the 6th century A.D., AFTER the schism between the Holy Roman Empire in the West, and the Holy Roman Empire in the East, headquartered in Constantinople.

The 'biblical' citation the Roman Catholic church attempts to use to establish a 'nexus' between the Roman Catholic Pontiffs of the 6th century, and the Apostle Peter, is the verse Matthew 16:18. Peter has just made his response to Christ's question, "Whom do men say that, I, the Son of Man am?" (continued)
Andy544 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 4:40 PM
Peter responded to Christ's question by saying, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:16

Jesus then said to Peter: "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah; for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but My Father which is in heaven." Matthew 16:17

And then Jesus said to Peter: "And thou art Peter ('Petros', little rock) and upon this rock ('Petra', massive stone) I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

The ROCK that Christ will build His church upon is HIMSELF, the Rock of Ages, the rock is NOT Peter (little stone). Peter, like all other true followers of Christ is a LIVING STONE placed on the CORNERSTONE, Jesus Christ, who is the head of HIS church.

Andy544 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 4:47 PM
The SAME Greek word is used in Matthew Chapter 7 verses 24-25, where Jesus said, "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine (Christ's LOGOS, His word) and does them, I will like him unto a wise man who built his house upon the ROCK ('Petra', massive stone, NOT 'Petros', little rock). And the rains descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded upon a ROCK ('Petra', massive stone, NOT 'Petros', little rock). The ROCK is CHRIST; our salvation is built upon the ROCK of ages, Christ Jesus Himself, not some mortal man, or false office based upon a mis-quoted biblical source reference! Only those who HEAR and OBEY Christ's words will receive His salvation!
dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 11:19 PM

You can deny Peter was our Pope in Rome at the start of the Church. What you deny is irrelevant; HE WAS. Nor is the Papacy supposed to be biblical, it is Christian from the start.

Who makes the Papacy in Rome Christian and HOLY? Saint Peter, that's who. We know the Papacy comes down in Christian history from Peter. Ir was never denied by believers in Jesus Christ until so-called "reformers" dismissed the faith of the apostles in the 16th century. This isn't my opinion; it's historical fact.

dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 11:33 PM

Christ addressed Simon in person. He said "Thou art PETER; meaning Rock."

Simon's name thereafter remained "Peter." The Church of Jesus Christ was undeniably built on him. Jesus never lies. Whoever says otherwise calls Jesus a liar. You call Jesus a LIAR, Andy!


dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 11:46 PM


"The ROCK that Christ will build His church upon is HIMSELF,"

FALSE. Not according to the Holy Bible, Matthew 16 :18.) where Jesus addresses the man HE will build His Church on. That man is Peter; first among the apostles. Subsequently first bishop of Rome, original POPE.

The Bible upholds Christ's words, not protestant arguments. You make Jesus a liar; His Church began with Peter the Rock; as Jesus named him there. In latter years he was bishop of Rome, where he was at last crucified.

You're in error.

Tradition as well as Scripture bear this history out.



Andy544 Wrote: Mar 19, 2013 11:47 PM
"Who makes the Papacy in Rome Christian and HOLY? Saint Peter, that's who."

ANY righteousness or 'holiness' or wisdom or redemption that we may possess comes to us SOLELY on the basis of our faith in Jesus Christ and the blood that He shed for us. No man is worthy to even carry Jesus' shoes based on his own merit or righteousness (which are filthy rags in His sight). Sinful MAN will not save you, Dread; nor an organization of sinful men with an extremely 'checkered' history. Christ alone is our righteousness and imputes His holiness to those who obey Him. No mere mortal man is able to sanctify himself, much less anyone else.
Shlomo O'Kelly Wrote: Mar 20, 2013 1:02 AM
There are many lessons in the 4 Gospels. One of them is to point out that tradition and Truth are not necessarily the same things. In fact, who was it that was the most vehemently opposed to both Jesus and the Apostles? It was the religious leaders whom Jesus castigated for "teaching for doctrine the traditions of men and making of none effect the Word of God". While we'll not fault you for your sincerity, we'll also warn you that it won't hold up to the scrutiny of The Word.
Andy544 Wrote: Mar 20, 2013 11:08 AM
"It was the religious leaders whom Jesus castigated for "teaching for doctrine the traditions of men and making of none effect the Word of God".

Thanks, Shlomo; wonderful response to Mr, Dread and his defense of church traditions above the authority of Scripture!
dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 20, 2013 11:59 PM

Go ahead and spin, Andy.

You believe the gospel of mortal men. The only church Jesus ever founded is the Catholic Church. That annoys you like hell;

But it's true. And He founded it on Peter the Rock. Your lame spinning is BS.

dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 21, 2013 12:04 AM

A tradition of mere men you may dispute. Sacred Tradition in the Holy Church;

Where the Holy Spirit safeguards both Scripture and Tradition, is unassailable. It isn't the tradition of men.

dreadnaught/13 Wrote: Mar 21, 2013 12:07 AM

To boot, Andy:

Your faulty interpretations of Scripture are counting on an authority you don't HAVE! You are outside the Church.

One of the first official acts of the newly installed Pope Francis was to reach out to the Jewish community of Rome, as his predecessor Pope Benedict had done, and he is being greeted warmly by many Jewish leaders worldwide. For most of the last 1,500 years, though, Catholic-Jewish relations have not been so warm. In fact, there was a time when the Catholic Church was rocked with a scandal: It was alleged that the Pope himself was Jewish.

But that was almost 1,000 years ago, and the first order of business is to note how well received Pope Francis has...