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In response to:

3 Myths About Thomas Jefferson

peaceman Wrote: Apr 15, 2014 10:33 PM
Carl..."I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Quoted from the Danbury Baptist letter... So there ABSOLUTELY is separation of Church and State...even 'evangelical Christian legislators' would rather create a theocracy if they could...and that's NOT a good thing
In response to:

3 Myths About Thomas Jefferson

peaceman Wrote: Apr 15, 2014 7:46 AM
Chuck, regardless that both Jefferson and Madison attended Church on government grounds, by no means implies that either would have supported a 'state religion.' You didn't make this point but the doctrine of the 'separation of church and state' had a great deal of support because of its intent based on the history our forefathers had with Great Britain and her severe lack of tolerance. The 'Church' in Great Britain wielded great power and acted like a megalith corporation; worse, with the blessing of the 'crown' they confiscated property and much more. Given the dynamic times in which our country was born into, it was difficult to maintain any real form of isolation and adaptation was the rule of the day. So, it must be said that while "Jefferson was not trying to rid government of religious influence...", a clear demarcation was absolutely necessary to subdue the tendency of theocratic agendas to move into places of influence and power; precisely where they do not belong. We are a 'spiritual' nation, not a Christian one but rather a country of many faiths. Endorsing the use of 'government buildings' doesn't constitute an abridgement of the principle of the 'separation' concept but rather reflects Jefferson's sympathies towards those of faith.
Mud, as predictable as always. Nothing you write makes or backs up any statement you make...whether you like it or not, Snopes is highly respected and far more than just the Dems; BTW you can check out the sources but you probably won't do that...or just too lazy.... I'm a liar, eh sport?? Oh, you bad-boy name caller...Well, have you bothered to check out the facts? How about that PA state senate leader who admitted to the voter registration push was for electing Romney and if you can get your 'nose' out of FauxNews' butt, you'll discover through a little research how much gerrymandering has been going on in the past 10 years by the Repubs...I check my sources; most people who post here don't...like you
So many here tend to forget so easily how Repub legislatures have been abusing the tool of gerrymandering. It's at its highest use ever witnessed and has become an obvious tool for 'legalized' voter fraud in its own right. This is the analysis that has been ongoing for years and the R's have gotten very good at it. That is right in your face manipulation and you turn your heads away and overlook it...does that sound equitable to you in a democracy?? Do we 'smell' reform coming in the future of gerrymandering?? You bet!
reality of numbers; get acquainted. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286557/yes-virginia-there-really-voter-fraud-hans-von-spakovsky https://humboldtdems.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/republican-secretary-of-state-in-indiana-convicted-of-voter-fraud/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/sep/13/eddie-bernice-johnson/voter-fraud-occurs-texas-though-convictions-and-gu/ http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 Facts are that individually you find a little voter fraud but 'overall' election fraud is very rare. About 120 indicted last year with 86 convictions from mostly filling forms out wrong...there's a lot more info but nothing supports the 'right-wing' contention that fraud is rampant; it's just another fabulous fave talking point...BTW what I posted up there is ALL researchable and verifiable. The claim is that the fraud is minimal and there's been studies that have demonstrated exactly that: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 This makes a point out of 197M votes, 2002-5, 40 indicted = .00000013% of the votes cast. Hmmm, not exactly earth shaking Another reference 2002-7, 300M votes, 86 convicted, most unaware of their eligibility http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp Snopes addresses 'bogus claims' about fraud re Obama's 2nd election win While there is great need to clean up the voting rolls, the issues fraud are not on the scale to sway elections or be overly concerned about. The need to audit rolls is clear but not much more than that...
Robert, why do you and other of your misguided friends forget so easily how Repub legislatures have been abusing the tool of gerrymandering. It's at its highest use ever witnessed and has become an obvious tool for 'legalized' voter fraud in its own right. This is the analysis that has been ongoing for years and the R's have gotten very good at it. That is right in your face manipulation and you turn your heads away and overlook it...does that sound equitable to you in a democracy?? Do we 'smell' reform coming in the future of gerrymandering?? You bet!
Mud, if you would ever back up anything you say with 'facts' that would be of interest. Otherwise you contribute NOTHING to a discussion accept innuendo through your fave 'talking points'...empty headed thinking...calling me a mindless hack when you bring nothing to the table
It's called writing and making a point, and you've made NONE. The claim is that the fraud is minimal and there's been studies that have demonstrated exactly that: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 This makes a point out of 197M votes, 2002-5, 40 indicted = .00000013% of the votes cast. Hmmm, not exactly earth shaking Another reference 2002-7, 300M votes, 86 convicted, most unaware of their eligibility http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp Snopes addresses 'bogus claims' about fraud re Obama's 2nd election win While there is great need to clean up the voting rolls, the issues fraud are not on the scale to sway elections or be overly concerned about. The need to audit rolls is clear but not much more than that... So no questions are being dodged...just learn to read thoroughly for a change
Guess what, Mud, you have to search pretty hard for any security issues and the links are all about 'privacy' for people when they vote. The voter registration issue I addressed but must remind you to ACTUALLY read what I wrote about voter rolls and the need to clean them up. The restrictions on voter registration as they've been presented are overbearing and manipulative. Read my comment about the PA's state senate leader who was caught stating the REAL purpose of voter registration (getting Romney elected); what a joke. Freedom in our country means making our best efforts for citizens to vote; yes, there is the need to clean up the rolls and be sure others register legally and that's a different effort from what ALEC has been pushing...catch up, son
Do yourself a favor, Mud, and not let everyone know how ignorant you are of the facts. I provided links for you to get a flavor but apparently your mind can't comprehend information...
I have, mud, and there's fraud but it's still minimal with the reality of numbers; get acquainted. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286557/yes-virginia-there-really-voter-fraud-hans-von-spakovsky https://humboldtdems.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/republican-secretary-of-state-in-indiana-convicted-of-voter-fraud/ http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/sep/13/eddie-bernice-johnson/voter-fraud-occurs-texas-though-convictions-and-gu/ http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 Facts are that individually you find a little voter fraud but 'overall' election fraud is very rare. About 120 indicted last year with 86 convictions from mostly filling forms out wrong...there's a lot more info but nothing supports the 'right-wing' contention that fraud is rampant; it's just another fabulous fave talking point...BTW what I posted up there is ALL researchable and verifiable.
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