In response to:

Did Freedom Win?

OldMexicanblog Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:08 AM
-- Leader-worship is unbecoming a free people. But are we a free people today? I mean psychologically. -- It is obvious that Americans are not free in the proper sense of the word. Some find comfort in the false assurances of security from politicians, others find the freebies (paid by others, of course) attractive. Such is the mentality of slaves, not of a free people. -- Years of government impositions change people. -- That is very true, but it is not only the people that want the handouts that have changed. Years of mythical hobgobblins invented by politicians (from anarchism to communism to terrorism) has turned a culturally individualistic population into a nation of subservient sheep.
doc, aka Rich Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:24 AM
Yup consider the evil of communism a mythical hobgoblin...

The USSR was not defeated, it was destroyed by economic collapse. Since, both Russia and China have permitted the introduction of limited capitalism, while Western Europe and the US are moving towards increased socialism. Former communist are no longer enemies because we are moving towards one another. But don't overlook who is growing economically stronger and who is growing economically weaker.
king10 - exposing leftism Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:31 AM
Correct doc.....the search for libertarian utopia necessarily has to demean and distort.

"An untested political system unfortunately has great rhetorical appeal. Since we can't see it in action, we can't point out its obvious faults, while the ideologue can be caustic about everything that has actually been tried, and which has inevitably fallen short of perfection."

That's pure libertarianism for you....some folks here aren't pure....but most of your habitual commenters here are.
OldMexicanblog Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:31 AM
Re: doc, aka Rich,

-- Yup consider the evil of communism a mythical hobgoblin... --

And while there is no denying the inherent evil of communism, the fact is that the US government was too happy to justify transgressions into other people's business and decisions (in other countries as well as in the U.S.) under the guise of protecting the "world" from communism. The charade was so persistent and pervasive that George Bush pere was stunned that the USSR had collapsed. Now we have the U.S. invading countries and stepping on people's individual rights presumably to protect "us" from the evils of terrorism.
OldMexicanblog Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:33 AM
Re: king10,

Ah, another "sourced quote", king?

"An untested political system unfortunately has great rhetorical appeal."

WHO said it was untested? For almost 120 years this nation was more or less libertarian, succumbing to fascism only after the start of the Progressive era.
jmonaco Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:48 AM
king10 --

I don't know any serious libertarians who believe utopia is possible via any man-devised schema. That's where government has a role ... to adjudicate conflicts (which will arise due to the imperfect nature of the world) in political and civil society.
nawlins72 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:53 AM
"An untested political system unfortunately has great rhetorical appeal. Since we can't see it in action, we can't point out its obvious faults, while the ideologue can be caustic about everything that has actually been tried, and which has inevitably fallen short of perfection."

That's nice, but where is the reasoned argument providing compelling evidence that individual liberty is a poor system?
Fuzzy2 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:55 AM
Getting king to understand even the little things, such as "it's Wednesday" is hard enough.
OldMexicanblog Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 11:58 AM
Re: nawlins72,

Not only that, but the quote that king10 provided is an example of an appeal to ignorance, which means that since we haven't experienced liberarianism as a political system, then it cannot be said it is good.

So not even king10's "sourced quotes" are compelling in themselves, actually showing poor logic.
nawlins72 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 12:00 PM
The "purist" argument is tired and worn out. Especially coming from a political party that demands purity in support of militarism.
Democrats won big last week. So government will continue to grow. Individual freedom will yield.

At least some people with records of supporting liberty were elected: Sen. Jeff Flake in Arizona and U.S. Reps. Justin Amash and Kerry Bentivolio in Michigan and Thomas Massie in Kentucky.

Also, Washington and Colorado voted to allow any adult to use marijuana. (But users beware. Your newfound freedom may be short-lived thanks to that extraordinary human being in the White House -- you know, the one who smoked pot when he was in school. Despite promising that he wouldn't, he has cracked down on pot...