They don't see abortion as a victimless crime. From the pro-life perspective, it's tantamount (or even identical) to murder, and hence the governmental is just as able to outlaw abortion as "vanilla" murder.

So no new gay children would be born?

Jesse: "1. Dictatorships are horrible - you don't need my input to see that. But because dictatorships are still around does not mean the Bible is horrible because its still around. I don't think you were coming to that conclusion - at least I hope not. Hinduism is not older than Judaism, where Christianity is rooted." Age doesn't make Christianity horrible, no. It just doesn't make it true. As for Judaism being older, you're saying that that's really your standard? Whoever got there first? "2. No, some things prevalent and persistent are quite relevant." Certainly, but persistence per se isn't relevant to correctness. Hell, sins like murder are really, really, really persistent, despite the best efforts of most societies, but we...

You're begging the question by assuming that homosexuality is evil. More to the point, though, you're conflating explicit gay sex with the simple fact of being gay. Should underage children not be exposed to straight romance, absent explicit sexuality? Should they not see marriage and dating in the media? If that's OK, why not gay romance? If your sexuality is a decision (which is kind of silly), why aren't we worried about recruiting children into straightness before they're ready?

Marriage is an instrument of legal attachment, as a well as a symbol of social acceptance. Christmas, although it's dubious that it's an official holiday, is not. Jews have their own religious holidays. Gays do not, as of yet, have their own version of marriage.

Dale: See marriage response above. After that, you can indeed sue someone for legally actionable discrimination against you on whatever basis the law allows. How is that special? If you were discriminated against for being straight, damn skippy you'd have a case. Define "gay-friendly." Do you have an example? How is it being forced? These are important questions in discussion of "special rights." And yes, if someone commits a hate crime against you, the sentencing should be enhanced if it is for gays, right? I don't believe in hate crime laws myself, but it's not inconsistent.

1. Avoiding detailed scientific discussion, "natural law" is simply the set of rules that define how physical objects and energy behave. An object cannot exist that is not governed by them because they're the only known mechanism by which objects come to exist, not because some intelligence is ensuring that all objects fall in line. Natural law encompasses all of existence, so of course it "makes sense" and seems like it has to have been planned. We're products of it. None of this requires that an intelligence have been involved. 2. Our discovery of laws just means that we don't know everything. I still don't see why any of this requires an omnipotent intelligence. Again, it all "makes sense" and predates humanity because it's...

1. I could dispute the tense thing, but more simply: How about autocratic dictatorship? That's certainly still around. Is that because it's a good way to run a country? Hinduism is older than Christianity and still quite alive; is it more true? 2. If you wouldn't give up Christianity because it's unpopular, then you acknowledge that prevalence and persistence in society are irrelevant. 3. Why would reason and intellect suggest design? We have huge, highly complex neurological machines in our heads that make us selective powerhouses in the evolutionary landscape, that appear to be more advanced versions of those possessed by other species. Where's the God in there?

Kevlar: 1. That's not a special right. Anyone could get gay-married. 2. Mathematically, how could gays not shower together in the Navy? Barring sailor-individual showers, I don't see how that's possible. 3. Define "taught homosexuality." That they should be gay, or that it's acceptable, or what? 4. That's not really a "special right." More to the point, though, American society is not all that tolerant of gays. Witness DADT.

Define "special treatment." What special rights do gays want?