In response to:

Truth 1725

Nick705 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 11:45 AM
That's rich; complaining that another religion is pagan. The only difference between Christianity & paganism is that the former is better organized, richer, and brainwashed into many more millions of innocent children literally from birth. And the bible, a collecion of books chosen BY A VOTE from many more similar books, is essentially a mixture of stolen pagan myths and Hebrew folk lore, put together by nasty, misogynist old men at a time of ignorance and superstition, full of violence, incest and slaughter - either commanded, or approved, by a mythical Almighty. The Iseraelites march from town to town, slaughtering and burning men, women and babies (except in the cases where god says they can keep the virgins for themselves.)
Cleombrotus2011 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 8:58 PM
She's right, Nick. Get a grip.

Christianity's fading in the West anyway so why are you so obsessed with it?

Of course what's taking its place isn't going to prove to be an improvement, but what they hey! As long as you can spend your time beating up on something the hasn't harmed you in any way maybe you can kid yourself that your world's actually improving.
The_Nerd_Warrior Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 5:18 PM
The canonization of Scripture was not chosen "BY VOTE". It was selected for consistency, with the Torah and The Gospels as a baseline. The "vote" was just to judge what was considered consistent.

"...at a time of ignorance and superstition, full of violence, incest and slaughter..."

...You mean like today? Take a look around; nothing's changed. Human nature's the same as it always was. We're not more "evolved", "civilized", or "enlightened" than we were thousands of years ago.

And if you've got issue with the actions of the Israelites of the Old Testament in war, try looking into their NEIGHBORS.

Christ fulfilled over 300 prophecies documented to have been written hundreds of years prior. What pagan religion claims the same?
ReddestNeck Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 5:01 PM
How would you go about establishing that any of the things you accuse as though they were nefarious, actually ARE nefarious even if the accusations were true? Because you cannot understand calculus, you condemn arithmetic.
dahni Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 1:06 PM
Seriously, Nick. You need to calm down a little. Maybe think about behaviors which support the development and maintenance of a society that benefits and is wanted by most of it's citizens. Start with that.

medicineman Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:22 PM
Nick

The early Christian believers, Stephen, 11 of the 12 apostles, Lawrence and many others died horrific deaths because they continued to believe what they had witnessed as followers of Christ. Peter upside down on a cross,Stephen stoned, Lawrence on a grid iron, and many others in the Colosseum in Rome. They had a choice, stop believing or face death.

They chose belief.

Have you ever been to Lourdes France or Fatima Portugal? There is a RC Church in each of these places where the Mary, the mother of Jesus appeared, and countless miracles have occurred. The church wall are lined with crutches, canes and other items left there after people with serious diseases. Can you name any pagan location where there have been a authentic cures?
Nick705 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:46 PM
Miracles? Sure. The Catholic Church is well on the way to making Mother Teresa a saint, despite all the evidence to the contrary. For example, one of the required miracles was her supposed curing of a woman's cancer. The fact that the physician attending the woman testified as a Devil's Advocate (to use the church's interesting description) that she had never had cancer was ignored. The pope says she is to be a saint, and that's that. By the way, Chris Hitchens exposes the fallacy of Mother Teresa in his book "Missionary Position." Just one example of her hypocrisy: When she became seriously ill, was she treated in one of her own clinics? Nope. She flew to LA to go to one of the most expensive hospitals in the world.
AliveInHim Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 1:10 PM
The Catholic Church can do what it wishes. On the other hand, I note that *you* as an unbeliever don't hesitate to judge 'sainthood' as though you're qualified.

Once again, 'people' are not the central tenet of Christianity.

Christ is.

Can you even begin to grasp that?

DCM in FL Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 11:58 AM
Typical anti-Christian straw-man misrepresentation.

The old fallacy about how the Israelites slaughtered people is especially tiresome. Just how innocent do you think their "victims" were? (BTW, I suspect that a lot of that "slaughter" kept some nasty pandemics from happening.)
Nick705 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:15 PM
Fallacy? Tirsome? Seems your reading of the bible included just the "nice" bits. And your last sentence is incredibly stupid. the Bible, particularly the OT, is full of horrible tales of slaughter. It wastes no time, but gets this off to a fast start in Genesis 14:14, where Abram destroys the city of Dan, AKA Laish, men, women and innocent babes, and Jacob's sons do the same to a Hivite city, but this time God apparently says it's OK to keep "the women who have not lain with men" for themselves. What was the town's crime? Because Jacob's daughter had been seduced by an uncircumcised Hivite. Aimlessly wandering, the Israelites, under orders from God to "Drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you" (Num. 33:52),
Nick705 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:16 PM
They slaughter village after village, city after city: Hesbon, Sihon, Ar, Chemosh, Jazar, Basham, Edrei, Ai, Jericho, Gibeon, Chephirah, Beeroth, Kiriath and on and on, the number of towns reaching close to 100, right down to the children and animals (or, occasionally, as sanctioned by the Almighty, keeping the virgins - e.g. Num. 13.) The perpetrators of these bestial acts, like Joshua, Moses, Abraham and David, are called "men after my own heart" by God - David in particular, who the Book refers to several times as delighting in bashing babies' heads out against the rocks. Or Jephthah, who celebrates a massacre by sacrificing his only daughter.
DCM in FL Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:18 PM
I'm thoroughly familiar with the "ugly" stuff in the Bible. I don't recall anyone asking for your approval of it, either. Human ugliness often required ugly responses, but you apparently like to gloss over the former.
DCM in FL Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:19 PM
As if some of us don't know all that stuff? At least we have a grip on how it fits into the big picture. You show no attempt at understanding that, but are merely looking for anything in the Bible you personally find offensive.
AliveInHim Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 11:55 AM
Nick, get a grip.

The difference between Christianity and ANY other religion is an empty tomb, that tomb being the promise of life everlasting for all who believe. No other religion has such easy access to Heaven, or access to God in this life.

Virginity has nothing to do with it except to the extent that the Virgin Birth of Christ was necessary in order for the Son of God to be born true God even as He was (and is) true Man.

BTW, the Bible never says pastors shouldn't be paid, or that churches shouldn't exist.

Nick705 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:11 PM
Obviously, you either couldn't understand what I wrote or are deliberately being obtuse. Let's try it again: the bible says that god commanded the wholesale slaughter of the inhabitants of town after town, including innocent babes, but the slaughterers could keep the "women who have not lain with man" (virgins) for themselves - as prizes. What the hell has that got to do with the Virgin Birth? (Which, incidentally, features in several more religions.) Even Thomas Jefferson couldn't stomach that one, saying that in time the virgin birth of Christ, with god as his father, would be regarded as a myth. As Chris Hitches said in "God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything," in many religions the birth canal is apparently a one-way street.
DCM in FL Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:16 PM
Gee, does the Old Testament seem a little harsh to you? Maybe it's because, to a perfect God, even a little rebellion or imperfection is unacceptable. That's why Christ was needed. Your belief system can't even provide an objective reason why *any* slaughter (including that masterpiece of Darwinism, the Holocaust) is wrong.

As for the virgin birth, historical reality doesn't change depending on who doesn't like it or who copies and twists it.
DCM in FL Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:23 PM
"How Religion Poisons Everything" -- BTW, neither you nor he have ever honestly evaluated the fruits of your belief system vs. those of Biblical Christianity. That alone should silence you.

You are also apparently unaware of what an anti-(manmade)-religion document the Bible is. Christ didn't come to start just another world religion.
AliveInHim Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 12:45 PM
For your post being a rant, I understood it quite well, thanks.

You don't like God because His followers aren't as perfect as He is, and those who reject Him were and can be quite bloody-minded-and sometimes He permits, and even instigates, drastic measures to curb the worst excesses of human nature.

You forgot the Flood-the reality of which Christ affirmed.

No wonder you're mad. God isn't Who you think He should be.

That makes you an idolator.
AudiR10 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 2:15 PM
In fact, St. Paul says the pastors should expect to be paid if he does good work, as "the laborer is worthy of his hire." And the phrase "the communion of saints" means "believers gathered together" i.e. the Church. I went to Bible College. I learned this stuff.
AudiR10 Wrote: Sep 26, 2012 2:17 PM
The word translated in the KJV as "virgin" means "young unmarried woman." It wasn't that long ago when the two words meant the same thing, much as the French word for "unmarried" still in use today comes from the same Latin root as our word "celibate."
One of my readers reached out to me a couple of years ago with the hope that I could help him communicate with his prodigal nephew. The kid had grown up in a Christian home and seemed to be doing well until he enrolled at a local community college. It was there that he decided to abandon his conservative and Christian beliefs. Even worse than that, he decided to replace them by joining a neo-pagan cult. I will not mention the group by name as I do not want to give them more attention than they deserve.

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