In response to:

The Real Root of Atheists' Anti-Christmas Rage

Nick705 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:06 PM
The only ones frothing are people like Giles and Bill O'Reilly, who want everyone to perpetuate the myth of Dec. 25 being Jesus's birthday. We can be glad that we're not living a few hundred years ago, when they could have appeared on our doorsteps with "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" and dragged us away to the stake. I celebrate the season the same way our forebears did for a thousand years before the Church put its slimy hands on it. There is not a shred of evidence that Christ, if he really existed, was born on Dec. 25, or even in December. The gospels of Matthew and Luke describe his birth, but not when. Nobody has any idea even which season he was born in.
RayTheAnarchoCapitalist Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Actually GMatthew and GLuke give approximate years for Jesus' birth. According to GMatthew it was sometime before 4 BC (the year that Herod died). According to GLuke it was 6 AD, the only year there was a census even remotely like the one Luke describes. So when Jesus said you had to be born again he meant it literally since he was born twice.
George257 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:20 PM
Actually Nick, religious Jews in 1st Century Palestine were very keen on making sure their first born in particular was born at a certain time of year, a time which corresponds to our month of December. It all has to do with the religious calendar. Late March was a good time to conceive a baby because there was no major religious festival at that time. And Christmas is 9 months later.

Your other remark about Christ, "If he really existed" is quite remarkable. There is more evidence that Jesus existed than that Julius Caesar existed. No serious scholars doubt his existence. This includes much evidence from secular and even anti Christian sources. Your ignorance even of quite well known facts casts doubt on your ability to take part in a rea
George257 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:21 PM
reasoned debate. You cannot have a theological discussion if your knowledge base is limited to Monty Python videos.
RayTheAnarchoCapitalist Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 9:55 PM
There is no evidence for Jesus' existence, unlike Julius Caesar.
John1921 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:19 PM
What's with the Spanish Inquisition? 200 years ago, in the America which had just ratified the Constitution, blasphemy was a Common-Law crime, punishable by death. So was sodomy, BTW. So was doing business on Sunday (not a capital crime though). So was trying to nail a married woman (criminal conversation). Many States restricted voting to those who would swear an oath affirming various dogmas of the Christian faith. Not to mention limiting the franchise to white male, property-owning, men who could pass a literacy test and pay a poll tax. One sometimes hears it asked: why don't we elect men like the Founders any more? GIGO! Lazy, stupid, envious criminals will vote for candidates just like themselves.
George257 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:30 PM
Wow, America in 1812 sounds like my kind of place.
AmyDB Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:12 PM
As I've said before the celebration of 25 Dec. as the time of Jesus' birth is un-biblical. It was only once the RCC tried converting Pagan / Heathen folk en-mass that his birth was said to be during this time.
They thought that if they had Christian holidays that could supplant the Pagan ones it would be easier to convert those who still held to the old ways.
Colonialgirl Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:44 PM
Nick705 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:11 PM
If the shepherds were tending their flocks that night, but you can bet it wasn't in December. Even in Palestine winters are cold, and the flocks and shepherd would be down in the village for protection against predators and exposure. Early Christians asserted May 20 as his birth date, and every month in the year has been advanced since.
As the Church began its campaign to "convert" the pagans in Europe, they found their authority undermined. In an age where life was generally nasty, brutish and short, "eat, drink and be merry" was celebrated at certain times of the year for thousands of years. One of the biggest the ancient pagan festival of Saturnalia, celebrating the passing of the shortest day by decking houses with holly and mistletoe
Nick705 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:15 PM
burning Yule logs, etc (sound familiar.) Appalled at this indulgence in the pleasures of the flesh of all varieties, the Christian Church simply stole the festival (as they did others, e.g. Eand told their reluctant flocks "No, no! This was the day when the Redeemer was born," and the whole Bethlehem, Three Wise Men [note, the Bible just says "wise men" - it could have been two, or 37], manger, Star in the East, shepherds, etc. myth began here. Eat, drink and be merry, the Church said, (so as not to lose their entire new congregation) but lay off the screwing a bit, OK, and remember this is the date of Christ's birth, and it's now not called Saturnalia, but Christes Messe. You got a problem with that? We have ways to persuade you.
George257 Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:26 PM
Yes, there are many pagan traditions included in the traditional Christmas. Everyone knows that. No one has a problem with it. What is your point? The article is about hostility to Christianity expressed through hostility to celebrating Christmas. That hostility would still be there, irrespective of the time of year Christmas fell.
Colonialgirl Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:43 PM
Right on target; The Catholic Church and it's poops tried to takeover a pagan holiday and to spew its brand of nonsense and lies about Christ.
Ron-CA Wrote: Dec 02, 2012 2:10 PM
If you actually studied the Bible you might just find therein lie answer to some of the "claims" you make.
Why do some atheists embarrass themselves year after year trying to eradicate Christmas from American culture? Why do they make themselves societal hemorrhoids during this hallowed season? Is it because they are crusaders for equality, secularism’s saviors and humanism’s heroes? I’m sure that’s what they tell themselves when they’re pouting on their couches all alone on Christmas Eve after every single one of their friends has dumped them for being a rabid jackass.

I believe, however—and I could be wrong—that the reason some rage against the machine is that they hate God and love their sin, and bringing up Jesus in...

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