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'Fiscal' Conservatism Needs 'Social' Conservatism

MoreFreedom Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:21 PM
Prager shows his misunderstanding of libertarians, and he mixes up liberal vs. conservative, and statist vs. libertarian. ".. liberals are liberal across the board" Democrats that advocate for laws against free speech, for restricting what you can buy, are not liberal. Goldberg calls them Facists, which isn't liberal. The reality is that most Democrats are complete statists, but we've others that defend civil liberties. Most Republicans are statists, but we've other libertarian leaning who are not. "liberty, "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum." Libertarians agree with liberty, and only trust God (those that believe in God) but not politicians or men, and believe in a limited government that creats a union from many.
Earl29 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:35 PM
There are liberals and then there are Liberals. You are right, these should not be called by that name, but we tend to get stuck in habits. Progressives can be a substitute term, but, as Mr. Goldberg said in his great book, they are basically progressing toward 1920s Italy.
MoreFreedom Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:29 PM
A government that jails you for violating a law without a victim (say smoking pot) doesn't help create unity.

Libertarians "agree on the separation of economic and social values, on the dispensability of God and religion, on the idea that America should not interfere in other nations"

Here Prager mixes values with law. I may value eating fish on Friday, but should there be a law forcing me? Libertarians believe government should be limited to dealing with situations in which someone has used force against another or their property.

Libertarians believe in religious freedom, not that God should be dispensed with or that God should write the law.

Libertarians are not against calling out evil nations for what they are. ...
MoreFreedom Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 5:35 PM
Libertarians, like most religious people, believe in the golden rule. Don't do unto other nations that which you don't want them doing unto you. Sending in the military because the president says the nation is evil, is something I don't want other nations to do to us.

And unless someone lives here in the US and pays taxes, it's not our government's job to defend them from their own government in their country. Our role is as an example to others.
The_Elite_Elite Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 6:15 PM
Exactly right MoreFreedom! I also agree about not calling Democrats liberal, as there is nothing liberal about them. I sometimes call them Progressives since that's the name of their movement, but I'm not wild about that either, since I don't consider bigger more powerful government to be progress.
rmccarthy Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 6:18 PM
I believe that progressing toward utopia (sounds like a song that we might have been indoctrinated with as youngsters in school?, that was "Marching to Pretoria") is one big lie that gets them a lot of support.
For some years now, we have been told about a major division within American conservatism: fiscal conservatives vs. social conservatives.

This division is hurting conservatism and hurting America -- because the survival of American values depends on both fiscal and social conservatism. Furthermore, the division is logically and morally untenable. A conservative conserves all American values, not just economic ones.

By "social conservatism," I am referring to the second and third components of what I call the American Trinity -- liberty, "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum."

It is worth noting that a similar bifurcation does not exist on the left. One...

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