In response to:

Obama's Little Red Phrase

McGovern Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 8:39 AM
DoctorRoy, Thanks for highlighting the difference between a liberal and a conservative view of the U.S. You wrote, "What he said you didn't build (and he's right) was all the infrastructure that goes along with being born in the US and helped to make you successful. ( roads, electric grid,etc.) " The liberal view: The government provided the infrastructure. You didn't. Therefore, you owe the government for your success. The conservative view: The people themselves and the business owners provided the infrastructure through taxes and hard work.
DoctorRoy Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:04 AM
You are missing the point. It's not necessarily the government but all the successful people before you that contributed to your being successful. It takes a little luck too. And I think you guys get caught up in wealth and status as the only measure of success. There have been millions of ordinary Americans who worked hard all their lives, served their country in time of war, and raised their families the right way. What I am saying is those people were successful too and contributed to the greatness of America even though they didn't have a lot of money to show for it. They were and are the backbone of America and deserve some props too.
McGovern Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:12 AM
You are missing the point.

No one is claiming someone can be successful without being rich. No one is claiming that even poor people have contributed to the greatness of America.

What I am claiming is that President Obama believes the government is the reason a business owner is successful. I truly believe that is what his comments meant.
DoctorRoy Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:30 AM
He might believe that. But that is not what he said. It would just reinforce my view that Obama is a slightly left of center Corporatist politician though. I told you guys years ago when I first came here that I am an anti-Corporatist first and foremost. Everything else is a peripheral issue imo. I'm like Rush in that I didn't vote for a long time. I didn't see the point because every politician in america is a Corporatist. Since my political leanings runs toward Anarcho-Syndicalism and the US is the only western Democracy without a labor based party, I now vote for the Corporatist that throws Labor a bone once in a while. That ain't Mitt.
Hawker 1 Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:52 AM
You can bolviate all you want but it comes down to you are both a fool and a socialist. Neither one or both have been a success in the past and will not be in the future. You want to live that life then go to N.Korea,Cuba etc. They are such models of your idea of a Nation.
DoctorRoy Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 10:08 AM
Yeah I tend to get on my soapbox once in a while or "bolviate" as you say but you all need a whole bunch of uhhhh enlightenment.
johninohio Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 12:16 PM
Then what was the point of what he said? Was he merely making a philosophical point irrelevent to any important issue? If so, why did he bother? What makes him think we care or should care?

Here's the point you're missing. Any sentient being would realize he was presenting a justification for his tax-em-dry attitude toward small business people. 'The government helped make you successful, so the government has the moral right to take from you as much as it wants.'

Get it?

If you're against corporatists, and any conservative would be, why do you bother to defend someone you call a corporatist when he's acting and talking like one? You make no sense.
SpaceVegetable Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:52 PM
Um, that *is* what he said.

We're all free to choose what kind of success we want, but Obama believes that those who choose financial success somehow owe the government more than they've already paid. He completely ignores the financial risks and sacrifices of time they've put in to achieve their success. Most entrrepreneurs I know would be making less than minimum wage if they broke down all their hours of work vs. the money they earn, at least in the earliest stages of starting their businesses.
SpaceVegetable Wrote: Jul 29, 2012 9:57 PM
Luck has nothing to do with it. Entrepreneurs make their own luck. They don't wait for opportunity to fall in their laps. They make their own when none is apparent. That's the difference between the successful and the unsuccessful. It doesn't require financial wealth, but personal satisfaction that you've achieved what you wanted in life, whether it's money, lifestyle, or doing something good for family or others.

Like Thomas Edison said, "Many overlook opportunity because it arrives wearing overalls and resembles hard work."

Steve of CA wrote: Personally I do not own a gun and would not feel safer if I had one, but I do not have a problem with law abiding people buying guns. That being the case, I have to ask of Mr. Ransom and others here, what controls, if any, do you favor over the purchase and use of weapons, including semi-automatic weapons such as the one used by the killer in Aurora? Or do you think we have too much gun control with the laws we have now? - The American Solution: Reach for the Guns

Dear Steve,...