In response to:

Lincoln Re-Examined

Marek3 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 1:19 PM
I agree completely. There is a lot of good that one can say about Lincoln, such as that he was a very good leader, a very compassionate man, a self made man, etc... however that doesn't change the fact that he was the one who made Federal Government supreme. He destroyed the Union, was a Dictator, removed rights from people, ignored the Constitution etc. There is a very good reason why but 40 years after him Progressives took over, and large Government became the norm. Lincoln destroyed America, for America is not a place on a map, but rather an idea. Before someone bring up Slavery; Civil War wasn't fought over Slavery, that was but one of the issues. Slavery was dying anyway.
Carl469 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 6:04 PM
You're muddling the issue. The Democratic Party of the South back then had absolutely no resemblance to the party of today. That party is extinct. The "liberal racism" meme doesn't work.
rickmcq Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 5:09 PM
You might want to look that up, Deadnaught011. In 1860 the population of Whites in Virginia was 1,105,453, and there were 490,865 Slaves, but "only" 26% of the households owned Slaves.
rickmcq Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 4:39 PM
"Democrats, to boot!"

A point too often overlooked today. Better be careful, Dreadnaught011, such truth can bring down a storm of Political Correctness if the wrong readers see it.
Dreadnaught011 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 3:35 PM

The Civil War was not about white slaves; hypocrite. Nor was there a black politician who ever voted for slavery.

Who voted for it? Racist white men. Democrats, to boot!

Dreadnaught011 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 3:33 PM

Yeah? The Old Dominion, West Virginia did not number a single white family (even trash) where they didn't own slaves. Not one house without slaves!

Marek3 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 3:09 PM
Hush Rick! you are bursting their bubble. The guy, honestly believes, and facts are never necessary when one has believes; that black vs white is what this country has been build about.
That there were Black politicians, that free blacks lived better in the south than north, that blacks owned slaves, that not all slaves were black, etc... those are inconvenient thing and as such ignored.
rickmcq Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 3:01 PM
You might just go completely off your rocker if you ever read that the 1830 federal census lists 3,777 free Black heads of household with slaves...
Dreadnaught011 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 2:43 PM

Please, Professor Marek,
Climb out of your paddle-wheeler.

". . . the violent abolitionist movement in the South, the popularity of Slavery has declined, taking lesser and lesser influence in the Economy of the South.
Also more Southern Politician have gotten into office who were less then sympathetic to Slavery."

When will you get it through your head, we were a nation of white versus black men. Blacks were NOT EQUAL to white citizens. They were 3/5th human, according to your refined and enlightened Confederacy. That's not simply a matter of slavery.

Marek3 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 2:17 PM
Emoting by making a rational argument? You have interesting chose of words :)

If you read "hundreds" of books you would have known that until the raise of the violent abolitionist movement in the South, the popularity of Slavery has declined, taking lesser and lesser influence in the Economy of the South.
Also more Southern Politician have gotten into office who were less then sympathetic to Slavery.

BTW I do have degree in history, so your analogy don't quite fly anyway :)

You can't quite post a dissertation on here, given the few words you can use.

Notice BTW I am not justifying Slavery, by any means, I am simply pointing out that action have consequences and what is said about Lincoln and what really happened isn't the same thing.
Milt37 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 2:11 PM

Since you're the only guy "emoting" here, with nothing more than unfounded statements, based on emotions, who's the ignorant one here?

I suggest you use some Windex on your mirror, or make sure it's not one of those mirrors that claim "Your the fairest one of all". Keep living in your own fantasy world.

I've read hundreds of books about antebellum US, the Civil War, and post war. I don't consider that makes me an expert.

Just like I wouldn't consider myself an M.D. in Proctology just because I chose to keep my head up my butt all my life, like you apparentely have.
Marek3 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 1:44 PM
You hurt me, I am wounded by your logic.

You see, I don't care one bit about anybody who emotes, instead of trying to have a rational argument. Nor do I care if you call me a racist ( I only have to answer to a man in a mirror, and what some guy on Internet things of me is not relevant).
However unlike you I actually studied the era beyond the rhetoric that is so prevalent today, and if you looked at the 1830-1860 you would have actually understand what was happening in the south.

So while you chose to be ignorant, I chose to look at the truth.
Dreadnaught011 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 1:34 PM

Shut up you clown;

YOU'RE as evil as they get. "A decade or two," ! ! ! Maybe in a decade or two you'll get a life!

Dreadnaught011 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 1:31 PM

What pawns like you cannot hide, is men like YOU enjoyed making beasts of burden out of black men and women. You wanted them humiliated each day. You hated them because they're black. You can say what you want about Lincoln. But your reason for denouncing him is plain: He pulled your pappies by the short hairs and brought them up out of the darkness.

THAT'S what you hate!

Marek3 Wrote: Nov 30, 2012 1:23 PM
If anything the Jim Crow which arose because of the Civil War, have done more to damage the community, and to keep blacks as virtual slaves, then the decade or two that Slavery would have existed if allowed to die on its own.

Nothing can excuse Slavery, NOTHING! At anytime that one person takes over freedom of another, a great evil has been committed. That said a greater evil, that was done by Lincoln and his successors to the Union is still an evil, one that can not be justified.
Every schoolchild with enough smarts and curiosity to get beyond the latest video game of "Call of Duty" ought to go see "Lincoln," the movie, and check out the references and his own attention span. It requires patience, but it shows through dramatic action how a self-taught rustic from the deep backwoods had the emotional and intellectual discipline to overcome poverty and grow up to be a president to rank among the greatest.

This is not about the American Dream or a Horatio Alger story. (Does anybody remember him?) Nor is it mythmaking. It's made of sterner stuff than that....