In response to:

The Education Blob

lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 4:58 PM
The public schools are a disgrace, this country outspends per capita every country in the world by a wide margin and comes in 25th in math skills, not much better in reading, it's because the unions don't give a cr@p about the students they are only an inconvenient bystander in their quest to build an empire where no one can be fired no matter how lousy their performance and their benefits are almost double private enterprise. It's no longer arguable that private schools can get twice The performance at half the cost. education has become money down a rat hole while the country goes broke. Its time to replace public schools with charter schools, do it for the children, do it for the country
Rochesternative Wrote: Jul 05, 2012 11:03 PM
Read NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education
peaceman Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 5:21 PM
The Public Schools are not as bad as you're making it sound; a gross over-generalization. Yes, there are challenges and those are driven by many factors that include politics, religion, culture and a breakdown in the home-life of children. Parents are still not nearly involved as they once were in their child's education decades ago. The money we spend covers far more ground than the comparison you're attempting to make with other countries which is not valid. The disgrace lays in our own laps for not being more attentive to our children's needs...the disconnect in our culture is the culprit
lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 5:47 PM
charter schools have opened in inner cities in the poorest neighborhoods where the public schools were failing 40% pass rate in one case the charter school children were drawn from a lottery. the charter school had a 100% pass rate an about half the cost . this has been repeated all over america. New Orleans is another case in point where charters opened because of Katrina and the performances soared. It's no longer arguable it's just the facts. Not enough parent involvement is just a cop out, not that its not important but it can no longer be used as an excuse.
nametabs Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 5:52 PM
Great Lemming, you come to my class and try to teach Pre cal to 22 kids who want to learn but there are 6 kids who want to see if they can get under my skin. Im sure you are up on your trig functions and can communicate those concept to others
nametabs Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 5:53 PM
Id bet the charter schools you are talking about are elementary schools. Im teaching college prep classes to some kids who should not be there. They need to be in MickyD's prep
lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 6:19 PM
I did tutor my daughter through trig in college. Your point doesn't change my argument and I'm not implying that you are a bad teacher. It means you are getting students that did not have discipline in the lower grades and you are probably not allowed to discipline them or suspend them if they are totally uncontrollable. There is a reason that charter schools are successful in dealing with problem children and they seldom expel students or transfer them to a special school.
nametabs Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 6:28 PM
Thats great, and yes I take offense when comments start with "Public schools are a disgrace". I appreciate your clarification. FYI I teach in a non union state but we are still near the bottom of test scores vs nat'l averages. Guess what, we are near the top in unwed births? Correlation is not nessesarily causation but I'd bet on it in this case. So your charter schools mantra sounds great so just explain how you are going to get all the kids in charter schools?
nametabs Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 6:34 PM
BTW ranking us against other countries is also suspect as their educational systems, and the student populations whose score are being compared are not similar. Few other countries have mandatory schooling through HS and also, few other countries are as multi-cultural (or attempt to be) as us. How about supporting teachers (in general) and if you find out who the ineffective teachers are, remove them. Heck , if its me, get rid of me, but first, support us!
lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 7:09 PM
I will agree that older children who have had no discipline in the lower classes pose a big problem. that would argue for charters where this is not allowed to happen. The system is broken, maybe you are not unionized but unions are a big problem, that's not arguable , there is plenty of documentation. and overall our school performance is a disgrace I wasn't offended by your name calling but a little disappointed that a teacher wouldn't have more "class".
Pat1392 Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:00 PM
Yep ---make sure they have some skin in the game. They will rise to the occasion but as soon as you cut them some slack they will be right back to doing nothing.
Pat1392 Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:02 PM
You better believe it --one kid can make your life miserable --if it were not for the fact that I could retire I would have inquired about a restraining order.
Pat1392 Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:03 PM
Probably a third of them are 3 to 4 years behind.
Pat1392 Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:04 PM
We have to quit paying for them to keep having babies.
lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:06 PM
Oh after Katrenia charter schools were moved in rapidly through vouchers and enterprising people moving in portable buildings and starting schools
nametabs Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 8:28 PM
Again Lemmi, you still take offense when I responded to your disresepct by calling you lemming. I apologize. Now apologise for starting off stating all schools are a disgrace.I asked you to support teachers then work on firing me if I am ineffective. Any response?
AND saying anything is "not arguable" is a false statement. Most likely means you cant defend your assertion
lemmi Wrote: Jul 04, 2012 9:20 PM
You are absolutely right Some public schools are actually very good, I have two grandchildren that go to very good schools there are good schools nearby me, I should have said the school system as a whole, and as a whole it is broken and in desperate need of repair. I stand corrected
Since progressives want government to run health care, let's look at what government management did to K-12 education. While most every other service in life has gotten better and cheaper, American education remains stagnant.

Spending has tripled! Why no improvement? Because K-12 education is a virtual government monopoly -- and monopolies don't improve.

In every other sector of the economy, market competition forces providers to improve constantly. It's why most things get better -- often cheaper, too (except when government interferes, as in health care).

Politicians claim that education and health care are different -- too important to leave to market...