In response to:

'Fiscal' Conservatism Needs 'Social' Conservatism

Jonah K. Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 12:46 PM
I am an atheist, which firmly puts me out of the "social conservative" circle. But I am an adherent to Constitutional authority as any fundamentalist. Human actions are, by definition, based upon physics. What choices we make are not constrained by a religious edict or a socialist edict. Yes, I can play the "indoctrination comparison" game myself. I don't doubt that the country was founded on freedom of religion. If Jews, conservatives, Muslims, and Buddhists can be equally "socially conservative," why should atheists be considered any less conservative? I do get your point, though. Structure of peaceful human conduct MUST be taught. What cannot be tolerated is the assignment of actions based upon religious (or lack of) adherence.
John5103 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 1:20 PM
On the one hand, you said behavior is the result of "physics". Then you acknowledged that America was founded on freedom of religion, and that conduct "MUST be taught." Which is it? Is behavior autonomous or taught? Your choice of atheism has led you to nonsense. Yes, atheism is a personal preference, not compelled by the facts. I'm bracing for you contradictory response.
David238 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 2:22 PM
Oh please! You're an atheist too. Through out history there have been written references to approximately 2883 deities. So do you believe in all of them? If you believe in only one then you believe in just one more god than me, so you are almost just as atheist. (h/t to Penn Jillette).
Happy Jake Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 12:55 PM
It's not that atheists CANNOT be socially conservative, it's that most choose not to be because they don't have the moral understanding that comes with faith in God. Without God, you cannot justify calling, for example, the cohabitation of an unmaried couple, "wrong." No one is obviously hurt by it. It meets with the "if it's OK for you it's OK" ideal. And there's not a single secular reason to oppose it except, possibly, that it's easy for one partner to abandon the other without legal consequence (and then, only if you consider THAT a bad thing.) The best an atheist can do with morality is calling bad that which hurts someone. Since hurt is relative, then "bad" is relative. Without God there can be no objective morality.
Andy544 Wrote: Jan 22, 2013 12:51 PM
Jonah (interesting name for an atheist, btw)... the fact is, one cannot separate moral conduct from a belief in God (and a belief in the TRUE God, at that; there are lots of 'false gods' out there). The 10 Commandments are a good starting point; hopefully, belief and adherence to them will eventually lead you to a saving faith in Jesus Christ, the ONLY person who was able to KEEP the law, in all its points.
Absent a belief in the True God, and His moral precepts, we simply have moral chaos, with each person doing what is right in his own eyes, which leads ultimately to tyranny and slavery (the direction this society is heading)
For some years now, we have been told about a major division within American conservatism: fiscal conservatives vs. social conservatives.

This division is hurting conservatism and hurting America -- because the survival of American values depends on both fiscal and social conservatism. Furthermore, the division is logically and morally untenable. A conservative conserves all American values, not just economic ones.

By "social conservatism," I am referring to the second and third components of what I call the American Trinity -- liberty, "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum."

It is worth noting that a similar bifurcation does not exist on the left. One...

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