In response to:

Did Freedom Win?

johnm h Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 2:36 PM
One sees below folks who consider themselves libertarians conflating personal moral judgments with impositions by the state or individuals. The whole point of freedom is that individuals can hold whatever views they want, can associates with whomever they want, and can recommend and advocate whatever they want. The values that formed our culture and our laws didn't spring out of a vacuum, they evolved and were passed down to us from societies that learned them in the course of being accountable for their behavior. We've lost them, and libertarians who value those inherited views so lightly risk losing the foundations on which liberty is based.
nawlins72 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 3:55 PM
Rhetoric. To charge that those who advocate for greater freedom are foolishly risking their liberty is to argue a contradiction. The only way one loses his/her freedom is by the actions of those who wish to deprive others of said freedom.
Virginia Daddy Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 5:10 PM
No, I think it is possible to willingly give up freedom, and that this concept is possible through ignorance.

johnm h Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 5:14 PM
I've obviously not my point clear. Try thinking about it.
nawlins72 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 6:27 PM
"No, I think it is possible to willingly give up freedom, and that this concept is possible through ignorance."

Of course it is, but you have to show how and where libertarians are acting in such a manner. I don't have to go far to find conservatives who believe that we must give up liberty in order to protect it. I have had this debate several times with TH'ers.
nawlins72 Wrote: Nov 14, 2012 6:28 PM
That's because your point is confused.
Democrats won big last week. So government will continue to grow. Individual freedom will yield.

At least some people with records of supporting liberty were elected: Sen. Jeff Flake in Arizona and U.S. Reps. Justin Amash and Kerry Bentivolio in Michigan and Thomas Massie in Kentucky.

Also, Washington and Colorado voted to allow any adult to use marijuana. (But users beware. Your newfound freedom may be short-lived thanks to that extraordinary human being in the White House -- you know, the one who smoked pot when he was in school. Despite promising that he wouldn't, he has cracked down on pot...