In response to:

Trampling on People, Environment and Ethics

hal_incandeza Wrote: Jan 13, 2013 7:14 PM
"the very foundation for many of their policies is built on sand, worthless computer models or outright deception" Pathetic. Only Driessen and the deniers on TH fail to see the huge impact climate change will have.
Kenneth L. Wrote: Jan 13, 2013 8:38 PM
You have a choice, hal. Prove that you have no integrity or engage in the debate as follows: I stipulate that you are exactly correct about the effects that the warming climate will have on us. Stipulate that the arctic ice will be gone by the end of the century, Florida will be under water, whatever you say.
Now you have to talk about what can be done about it. Use the IPCC's own projections of the effect. Even it the U.S. were to reduce emissions to zero, we could not make an appreciable change in these effects. Are you aware of this?
And are you aware that the U.S. has curbed emission more than the Kyoto accord signatory states? But it won't change anything.
What exactly is your point, hal?
M.Hillinger__aka__QR Wrote: Jan 13, 2013 9:36 PM
Kenneth L

OK, let's stipulate the climate change is happening. How bad will it be? Florida will not be underwater any time in the near future but we could see a sea level rise of 6 feet, major changes in precipitation patterns, increase in ocean heat content and more acidity--both of which might disrupt the food chain. And, under business as usual, it gets worse from there.

This seems pretty dire to me but you are correct, unilateral action by the US won't be enough.

But isn't this the beginning of the discussion? Or do we just throw up our hands and say it is hopeless and let's continue doing what we are doing regardless of the consequences.

What is the conservative solution?
Marie150 Wrote: Jan 13, 2013 10:13 PM
What is the Conservative solution to tsunamis? A plastic pail and shovel? Who controls the sun? We can react but we cannot control what is not under our control. Mankind can not possibly change the climate one way or another. We do not have that kind of power. Can you lasso a tornado?

Policy integrity. Ethical culture. Environmental protection. Environmental defense. Friends of earth. Defenders of wildlife. Not just their names, but their charter, culture and policies – their very being – represent a commitment to these profound values. Or so we are supposed to believe.

The activist groups and government agencies certainly talk a good game. They’ve certainly got the “mainstream” media and a lot of legislators and regulators on their side, while many who question their claims and agendas lack the greens’ money, influence, connections and firepower.

All that notwithstanding, these supposed “white hats” are often all hat and no...