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It does seem odd though, that in the Gospels you get the impression that Jesus' 12 apostles did not really know what he had come to Earth to do. Judas thought he had come to raise a rebellion against Roman rle.A one minute chat on day one could have ironed out that little confusion. He could have said his aim was to start a religion, not a war. And you get the impression that the Jewish authorities feared the same thing too. All of that could be explained if Thiering's hypothesis is correct - that Jesus was the Essene / Davidic candidate for the monarchy, who St Paul later reinterpreted as a religious saviour.
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Will China Dominate the 21st Century?

George257 Wrote: 15 hours ago (1:56 PM)
I think its a good job they've got a one child policy. There are a billion of them already....
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The Politics of St. Paul

George257 Wrote: 15 hours ago (1:52 PM)
I think it's ok to have saints as role models, as long as we don't imagine they are minor 'godlings'.
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The Politics of St. Paul

George257 Wrote: 15 hours ago (1:44 PM)
An interesting thought.
Libs love to call anyone who disagrees with them 'homophobes', 'islamophobes' etc. So should not libs now be called 'gynophobes'?
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3 Myths About Thomas Jefferson

George257 Wrote: Apr 15, 2014 5:55 PM
Presumably an 'established religion' in those days meant, as it means now, that the bishops sit in parliament / congress, ex officio.
The purpose of the Essenes, as I understand it, was to reinstate a Davidic king, an heir to the house of David. Since Jesus was the heir of that line, logically we would expect Him to have Essene sympathies. Thiering argues that His father Joseph was also a claimant to the throne of David. Interestingly, the Gospels which trace Jesus' and Joseph's line of descent from David, appear to give two different versions of the family tree. The Gospel according to John makes no mention of the Virgin Birth. At the time he was writing, that detail had not yet emerged. Unless he had heard of it and dismissed it as mere rumour. St Paul also makes no reference to the Virgin Birth, although he speaks quite a lot about Jesus, and gives reasons why we should believe in him.
It is also possible that when Jesus said, 'Take this cup away from me,' he was referring to a cup of a powerful drug which the High Priest offered Him shortly before His crucifixion. The High Priest was offering Jesus a quick death.
Thiering also argued that Lydia, the 'seller of purple' could have been a bishop, because a bishop was allowed to consecrate a new bishop, in return for money. (In which case the act of Simon Magus, who tried to 'buy' the power to cast out demons, is not as shocking as it sounds at first.)
Barbara Thiering, in her book 'Jesus the Man' makes some very interesting arguments. She has analysed the system of codes included in documents written by the Essenes, a group contemporaneous with Christ. She believes that Jesus married Martha and later Lydia (the 'seller of purple' mentioned in Acts), and that Jesus had a daughter Phoebe who married Paul, and a son called Jesus Justus. The remark in Acts that 'The word of God increased' meant that Jesus had a son. ('The word' means Jesus in the Essene code) Jesus himself was a claimant to the Davidic throne, she argues, and as such had a following who wanted to restore a descendant of David to the throne. The Essenes were monarchists, but some favoured Jesus' younger brother. Naturally the Herodian royal family also feared Jesus. The Virgin Birth refers to the fact that in the Essenes' strict rules, a married couple were not allowed to consummate their marriage during their first year of marriage. The bride, during this year, was called a virgin. Bacause Jesus was born just before the year was up, his legitimacy as head of the Davidic faction was questioned. Various ranks within the priesthood had code names. For instance the High Priest was referred ato as 'God'. Thus when Jesus said 'My God, My God, why hast thou forasaken me', it could refer to his falloing out with the High Priest. (Similarly when Thomas calls Jesus 'My Lord and my God'). Similarly, a priest or Essene who was expelled from the priesthood or order was said to have died or been killed. If later he was restored to his position, he was said to be raised or restored to life. This could explain a lot of 'raising' of the dead type miracles. Those in the highest ranks of the order were said to be on the third storey. That would explain how a young man fell from the top storey and died, but was raised to life., in Acts. It was all a way of teaching new Christians. Any comments?
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