In response to:

Is Tougher Border Enforcement a Prerequisite for Comprehensive Immigration Reform?

Benson: "Is Tougher Border Enforcement a Prerequisite for Comprehensive Immigration Reform?" NO! Instead, a Secure Border will a CONSEQUENCE, a felicitous FREE RESULT AND BENEFIT, of any Comprehensive Immigration Reform that includes a practical, well-designed and easily-usable GuestWorker or WorkerVisa program. The meaningful measure of Border Security is the amount of illegal Border Traffic. Create a good Guestworker program, and all the hordes violating the border in search of honest work will instead line up to get a GuestWorker Card! In return for it they will get Photographed, Fingerprinted, whatever.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:03 PM
Naive much? Unless by "good Guestworker program" you mean "pick up your free pass to stay here as long as you like as you walk by," it will have the same results as what we have now. Illegal aliens don't want to stand in line - they've proved this time and again, nor will they want to be "finger-printed and photographed." More important than what they want, WE don't want more minimum wage (and below) workers coming here - we have a shortage of jobs, not workers. We have an abundance of uneducated workers, and we need to limit, rather than encourage, that sort of immigration. Also, it's rather hypocritical to demand a new form of ID card while inferring that it's racist to ask for ID (proof of legal presence) during traffic stops.
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:12 PM
Anominus, like all obstructionists both Liberal and Conservative you can think of a million ways to screw up solutions that puncture your ideological balloons.

Do you really think people who are sneaking into the country to work would rather live every waking moment in the shadows, in fear of arrest and deportation?!? Are you CRAZY?!? And people like this often pay absurdly huge sums of money to Coyotes, criminal smugglers who like as not rob or kill them. THEY WILL PAY MONEY for a Work Visa.

These people have never been given a worthwhile reason to stand in line. Yes, they will get photographed, fingerprinted, sit around and have a cup of coffee while we run them through databases.
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:13 PM
Maybe they'll talk to entrepeneurs who will route them to employers.
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:16 PM
And once we have guestworkers with a documented status it will be EASIER to prevent them from displacing citizens out of jobs.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:21 PM
Thanks for that big pile of gibberish, FLMClown.

It doesn't matter what these criminals want - what matters is that they are willing to break the law to get here illegally (and by the way, the amounts they pay to coyotes and smugglers is generally comparable to what it takes to get a visa), not to mention work here illegally, and as such have proven their disregard for the laws of our country.

We already have work visas available - there is a waiting list (line) for them because of how popular the program is. Illegals are not willing to wait in line, or know that they would be refused anyway (a great many of them have either active warrants in Mexico or convictions) which is why they choose to enter illegally instead.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:24 PM
"Maybe they'll talk to entrepeneurs who will route them to employers."

Leave the entrepeneur talk to those who can be bothered to come here legally.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:26 PM
"And once we have guestworkers with a documented status it will be EASIER to prevent them from displacing citizens out of jobs."

How do you figure? If anything, a guestworker program would ensure that more non-citizens get jobs that would otherwise have gone to citizens by granting legal status to millions of people WHO SHOULDN"T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 2:01 PM
"How do you figure? If anything, a guestworker program would ensure that more non-citizens get jobs that would otherwise have gone to citizens..."

Employers who employ the undocumented are already outside the legal system. But Guestworkers can be prevented by law from displacing citizens. If I were making the laws I'd say that any citizen can take the job of any GuestWorker, but then they have to *ACTUALLY DO THAT JOB* for at least 60 days or something, or else the displaced guestworker gets the wages. THAT would resolve what citizens will and will not do.
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 2:06 PM
"We already have work visas available - there is a waiting list..."

Some 50K last year! (Says Rand Paul.) TEN TIMES THAT MANY CROSSED THE BORDER last year. Work visas are doled out by people who think like you -- useless.
next years crops would rot before the work visas were issued.


"It doesn't matter what these criminals want.."
Our immigration laws are at odds with the nations needs. Hence, illegal immigration. Too bad that GUILT-FREE HATRED is the CRACK COCAINE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, and addicts like you just can't give it up.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 2:13 PM
"Employers who employ the undocumented are already outside the legal system."

And they should be punished for it.

"But Guestworkers can be prevented by law from displacing citizens. If I were making the laws I'd say that any citizen can take the job of any GuestWorker, but then they have to *ACTUALLY DO THAT JOB* for at least 60 days or something, or else the displaced guestworker gets the wages."

I can just imagine the charges of "racism" and "xenophobia" that would be the result whenever a local citizen takes a job from a poor "guestworker." Yeah, that would never happen. And you wonder why we never take you seriously?
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 2:19 PM
"Some 50K last year! (Says Rand Paul.) TEN TIMES THAT MANY CROSSED THE BORDER last year."

Thank you for proving my point - illegals are not willing or interested to wait in line. If people who "think like" me were in charge of "doling out" work visas, then there would have been zero granted last year. We have a glut of workers already, and we need to take care of our citizenry first. We need to reform our employment laws, especially minimum wage, not immigration.

"Our immigration laws are at odds with the nations needs. Hence, illegal immigration."

Re-vomited gibberish. Illegals are at odds with the needs of this country and stupidity is your addiction.
FlamingLiberalMultiCulturalist Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 12:49 PM
ONLY THE CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS WILL STILL TRY TO ENTER ILLEGALLY. There are far, far fewer of them. The Bush and Obama administrations have both increased the border patrol, built fences, deployed drones, etc,etc. All these resources instantly face a much smaller, more manageable task. Our border will be ten times more secure than it's ever been and it will cost nothing.
Anominus Wrote: Apr 02, 2013 1:07 PM
"ONLY THE CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS WILL STILL TRY TO ENTER ILLEGALLY."

That is true even now - ONLY a criminal would enter the country illegally - their interest in coming here after the illegal crossing is irrelevent in the face of that fact. Comprehensive immigration reform should mean nothing more than fortifying the border, enforcing employment legislation, auditing various social benefit programs, deporting illegals when they are found, and returning to the accurate interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

The "comprehensive" label would suggest that beefed up border security would be at least one integral part of any final reform package, and rest assured that everyone on all sides of the debate will at least claim that it is.  The real question is whether achieving certain concrete benchmarks will be meaningfully required before other elements of the law are triggered, such as starting the clock on a multi-year path to citizenship for illegals.  Virtually every Republican says yes.  Barack Obama (for now) and Janet Napolitano say no.  Chuck Schumer and other Democrats say maybe-ish.  Plus, preliminary legalization...